Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:18 pm

This breaks my heart, as a father. We're pulling children away from their parents, none of whom have committed any crimes, and we're holding them in prisons akin to concentration camps. The UN has come out condemning this practice. A cruel violation of basic human rights. Children are innocent and deserve much better.

https://www.theroot.com/trump-administr ... 1826792664

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:55 pm

s*** like this makes me hesitate to tell people I'm an American. Thankfully, not a lot of people around my parts are totally aware of this situation.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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Nodack
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Nodack » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:00 pm

Well at least they have murals of Trump to look at and quotes from his book on the walls to give them hope...

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:51 pm

They're putting babies in "tender years" centers, too.

https://apnews.com/dc0c9a5134d14862ba7c7ad9a811160e

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Cap
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Cap » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:54 pm

When Mexico sends its babies, their not sending us their best. They’re bringing crime, they’re bringing drugs, they’re rapists.
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Superbone
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Superbone » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:21 am

Cap wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:54 pm
When Mexico sends its babies, their not sending us their best. They’re bringing crime, they’re bringing drugs, they’re rapists.
That's what happens when you're taken from your parents.
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Indy
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Indy » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:53 am

Superbone wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:21 am
Cap wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:54 pm
When Mexico sends its babies, their not sending us their best. They’re bringing crime, they’re bringing drugs, they’re rapists.
That's what happens when you're taken from your parents.
This. We are creating a new generation of 'terrorists'

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:55 pm

Indy wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:53 am
This. We are creating a new generation of 'terrorists'
I agree. And when it happens, they'll try to use this to justify further cruelty. "Immigrants all become terrorists, that's why we have to _____." (where ____ means putting them in cages, killing them, keeping them out, walls, travel bans, etc.)

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:38 pm

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:00 pm
Well at least they have murals of Trump to look at and quotes from his book on the walls to give them hope...
Is this real?
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Nodack
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Nodack » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:58 am

http://time.com/5312226/donald-trump-mu ... ds-center/

The mural is one of 20 depicting U.S. presidents, including Barack Obama, accompanied by inspiring quotes, the San Antonio Express-News reports. Most of the presidents’ quotes are about immigration, though Trump’s is not.

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Nodack
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Nodack » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:48 am

This subject has been a hot topic for many generations. I think it is used by politicians to stir up voters. They do it on both sides. The stances of Democrats and Republicans seem to shift depending on the political winds.

Janet Nepolitano was the Democrat Governor of AZ and she criticized Bush for not doing enough about illegal immigration. His fellow Republicans were upset that he wasn’t doing anything about it. The Bush’s have a soft spot for illegal immigrants from Mexico that most Republicans don’t share.

https://tucson.com/news/local/border/bu ... 064ee.html
Napolitano, who asked the federal government to fund the deployment of the National Guard to the border earlier this year

Glenn Spencer, president of American Border Patrol, said "the president is reacting to pressure. The polls show that he is very unpopular and the polls show that the American people want something done about the border, so he has been grabbed, kicking and screaming, into confronting the issue."


Bush did deploy troops to the border and just like Trump none of them actually patrollled any borders. Their job was to do odd jobs that Border Patrol guys used to do that took them away from patrolling the border like cleanng horse stables.

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0317 ... rder-fence
In May 2006, President George W. Bush touted the SBInet project as “the most technologically advanced border security initiative in American history.” The proposed "virtual border fence" along the US-Mexican border was to be a string of towers that would use cameras, radar, and ground sensors to see who was coming across in real time.

Now the project, which spent $2.4 billion between 2005 and 2009, has hit so many snags that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is freezing its funding.

“Not only do we have an obligation to secure our borders, we have a responsibility to do so in the most cost-effective way possible,” wrote DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano in a press release Tuesday. “The system of sensors and cameras along the Southwest border known as SBInet has been plagued with cost overruns and missed deadlines.”

Critics of the virtual border fence project have been quick to respond.

“It’s a good thing they have finally acknowledged the obvious, that SBInet is a failure, and they are going to evaluate it,” says T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a professional labor union representing more than 17,000 US Border Patrol agents and support staff.

We already detect more traffic of illegals than we can apprehend, so we feel the money is better spent putting more boots on the ground than in looking at more technology," he says
.

Janet criticized Bush for not doing enough as AZ Governor about illegal immigration. Then she became the Homeland Security boss and it was her turn to be criticized for not doing enough.

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Nodack
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Nodack » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:13 am

Can we have a serious debate about this? How do we really feel about illegal immigration? The go back and forth myself. On one hand I think this is a nation of laws and it isn’t fair that some people sneak across the border while others doing the right thing by trying to become a citizen the legal way don’t get in. We allow more legal immigration than any other country in the world. What if we open our borders and allow everybody in as citizens? We would be overrun.

On the other hand I believe we stole Tex, NM, AZ and California from Mexico by force and that was no different than Saddam invading Kuwait or Russia annexing Crimea. That was over 150 years ago and the US isn’t going to give the land back now. Illegal immigrants have been crossing the border ever since trying to find work. The US hasn’t been destroyed yet.

For me personally , I think the Border Patrol system we have in place is doing a decent enough job. Some get through the cracks but, it’s not an open border. I think we as a country have a lot bigger problems to worry about than stopping Pedro and his family.

I think the best thing we can do is help Mexico become a country people don’t want to leave.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:06 am

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:13 am
Can we have a serious debate about this?
I had a long response written out but I deleted it because it was making me angry and giving me a headache.

The main issue at hand here is a very obvious, "I've got mine, so f*** off" mentality. It's pervasive in our culture and society in general, and I have no idea how it gets resolved.
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Indy
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Indy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:01 am

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:13 am
Can we have a serious debate about this? How do we really feel about illegal immigration? The go back and forth myself. On one hand I think this is a nation of laws and it isn’t fair that some people sneak across the border while others doing the right thing by trying to become a citizen the legal way don’t get in. We allow more legal immigration than any other country in the world. What if we open our borders and allow everybody in as citizens? We would be overrun.

On the other hand I believe we stole Tex, NM, AZ and California from Mexico by force and that was no different than Saddam invading Kuwait or Russia annexing Crimea. That was over 150 years ago and the US isn’t going to give the land back now. Illegal immigrants have been crossing the border ever since trying to find work. The US hasn’t been destroyed yet.

For me personally , I think the Border Patrol system we have in place is doing a decent enough job. Some get through the cracks but, it’s not an open border. I think we as a country have a lot bigger problems to worry about than stopping Pedro and his family.

I think the best thing we can do is help Mexico become a country people don’t want to leave.
That doesn't go for just this small area. The entire part of the globe that the US claims ownership of was taken by force, in the pretty recent history. Not to mention settling that land with slaves. I mean, we still have people living today where their grandma or grandpa was a slave.

I don't think we would be "overrun" to allow more immigration. I honestly think it would only make our country stronger. We need to get away from having such a huge portion of this country be old white people.

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Nodack
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Nodack » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:26 am

America’s white population shrinks for the first time as nation age
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch ... ation-ages

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Nodack
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Nodack » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:40 am

Trustees Report confirms: Trump's war on immigrants is hurting Social Security
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/393 ... l-security
The 2018 Social Security Trustees Report states that Donald Trump’s decision to end DACA and his tax legislation each have a “significant net negative effect” on Social Security’s finances over the next ten years.

Is this an unintended byproduct of immoral policies? No. Despite Trump’s campaign promises not to cut Social Security, the statements he made prior to running for office showed he considered it a Ponzi scheme and wanted to privatize it. His Cabinet appointments, as well as his budget and the legislation he supported once he became president reveal that his campaign “promises” to not cut Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid were simply lies he told to win votes.

Undermining Social Security is what Trump and his Republican cronies have done in the lead-up to the mid-term election. Imagine what will happen to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid in 2019, if the GOP retains control of Congress.

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Indy
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Indy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:38 pm

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:40 am
Trustees Report confirms: Trump's war on immigrants is hurting Social Security
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/393 ... l-security
The 2018 Social Security Trustees Report states that Donald Trump’s decision to end DACA and his tax legislation each have a “significant net negative effect” on Social Security’s finances over the next ten years.

Is this an unintended byproduct of immoral policies? No. Despite Trump’s campaign promises not to cut Social Security, the statements he made prior to running for office showed he considered it a Ponzi scheme and wanted to privatize it. His Cabinet appointments, as well as his budget and the legislation he supported once he became president reveal that his campaign “promises” to not cut Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid were simply lies he told to win votes.

Undermining Social Security is what Trump and his Republican cronies have done in the lead-up to the mid-term election. Imagine what will happen to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid in 2019, if the GOP retains control of Congress.
This is a really good point. Every time I have this conversation about illegal/undocumented immigrants with folks, one of the first things that is thrown out there is their lack of paying taxes.

Once I bring up that they pay sales taxes, property taxes (either directly through home ownership, or through their rent to their landlords), gas taxes, and so forth. They agree with all of that (which is a lot more tax than you typically think of).

Then I bring up that they pay income taxes and SS taxes. They argue and say they don't. The only way they are correct is if they are being paid illegally by the company that hired them, which is a crime on the company's part, regardless if they are paying a US citizen, a legal immigrant, or an undocumented one. I have worked with several undocumented folks over the year (and especially in my times in college doing all kinds of part-time work), and nearly everyone got a paycheck from the company, not cash under the table. So they were paying all of the taxes I was paying, except they can't collect SS and can't usually file for an income tax return. So, in effect, they are paying more taxes than a documented worker in the same job.

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Indy
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Indy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:39 pm

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:26 am
America’s white population shrinks for the first time as nation age
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch ... ation-ages
I read that just after I posted. That is such a good thing for our country.

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Nodack
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Nodack » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:58 pm

I am fine with us all being mutts. In real life pure breed dogs are the sickest most FU breeds. Mutts live longer and are smarter.

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Cap
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Re: Separating immigrant/refugee children from parents

Post by Cap » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:34 pm

“Everybody’s just gotta keep f*** everybody until we’re all the same color.” — Bulworth
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

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