Supreme Court

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
User avatar
Cap
Posts: 7647
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Cap »

Coming up: Muslim teacher at public school tries to lead students in Islamic prayer, gets fired, sues, goes to SCOTUS, gets told by the majority to go fuck herself.

Could also be a Satanist rather than a Muslim. There aren’t a lot of them around, but they do love their test cases.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Indy »

Honestly, they would probably tell a Mormon or a Jew to go fuck themselves too. Like you pointed out, this isn't about supporting religious expression--it is about promoting one religion.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 15951
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Mori Chu »

It also isn't just about the coach praying to himself at the game. He led the entire team in a prayer during each game, and players felt that they were ostracized if they did not participate. The distinction matters.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 6511
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Nodack »

I suppose it’s different for each person. Like I said, I just bowed my head and went along with it in those situations. You could make a scene and demand yourself be excluded. It’s a great way to embarrass yourself in front of your piers. You bow your heads and the coach asks god to watch over your team and give it the strength to kick the other teams ass. It’s like wishing good luck. Luck is made up too. If it makes someone feel good and it doesn’t hurt me I am ok with it.

I always wondered about non religious people getting sworn in in court and when they say “I promise to tell the truth, so help me God.” They don’t believe in God. In a different society “so help me Satan” ? They could ask them to tell the truth and nothing but the truth and just leave it at that. Just go along with it and say I do and shut up. 😎

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:15 pm
I suppose it’s different for each person. Like I said, I just bowed my head and went along with it in those situations. You could make a scene and demand yourself be excluded. It’s a great way to embarrass yourself in front of your piers. You bow your heads and the coach asks god to watch over your team and give it the strength to kick the other teams ass. It’s like wishing good luck. Luck is made up too. If it makes someone feel good and it doesn’t hurt me I am ok with it.

I always wondered about non religious people getting sworn in in court and when they say “I promise to tell the truth, so help me God.” They don’t believe in God. In a different society “so help me Satan” ? They could ask them to tell the truth and nothing but the truth and just leave it at that. Just go along with it and say I do and shut up. 😎
So you are a fan of bullying kids. :lol:

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 6511
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Nodack »

Not really.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Indy »

Sounds like it. "Just do it! Everyone else is! You don't want be embarrassed!"

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 6511
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Nodack »

I pledged allegiance to the flag every morning at school growing up and had to say under God. Every dollar I spend says In God We Trust on it. The separation of church and state has been in play for a long time. I just chose to not make it a cause of mine growing up.

In grade school you barely even know what any of that is. I wasn’t even sure what I believed then. All your friends believe in it. All the grown ups believe it. It must be true. I can’t recall the exact date I decided religion was just fairy tales. Sometime in HS you start developing your own view of the world and start really forming some opinions.

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 7647
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Cap »

Nodack wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:45 pm
Every dollar I spend says In God We Trust on it.
You still use cash?

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:45 pm
I pledged allegiance to the flag every morning at school growing up and had to say under God. Every dollar I spend says In God We Trust on it. The separation of church and state has been in play for a long time. I just chose to not make it a cause of mine growing up.

In grade school you barely even know what any of that is. I wasn’t even sure what I believed then. All your friends believe in it. All the grown ups believe it. It must be true. I can’t recall the exact date I decided religion was just fairy tales. Sometime in HS you start developing your own view of the world and start really forming some opinions.
You don't see that indoctrination as a problem? Or at least an issue that the government shouldn't be pushing on people, especially in light of the 1st amendment?

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 6511
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Nodack »

I see a whole lot of problems with a lot of things. I do see it as indoctrination. Especially now that I am older. When you are that young you are clueless to it. Right now I am pretty worried that we are losing democracy and heading for a very violent time in America. I almost long for the naive days of my youth where politics was for old people. Now I’m an old person talking politics.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:54 pm
I see a whole lot of problems with a lot of things. I do see it as indoctrination. Especially now that I am older. When you are that young you are clueless to it. Right now I am pretty worried that we are losing democracy and heading for a very violent time in America. I almost long for the naive days of my youth where politics was for old people. Now I’m an old person talking politics.
Same!

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:54 pm
I see a whole lot of problems with a lot of things. I do see it as indoctrination. Especially now that I am older. When you are that young you are clueless to it. Right now I am pretty worried that we are losing democracy and heading for a very violent time in America. I almost long for the naive days of my youth where politics was for old people. Now I’m an old person talking politics.
That is the whole point of it. To do it before you know enough to question it. And even now, we are moving further and further from teaching critical thinking skills in school, so nobody ever starts to question what is told them. It is really scary.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 25802
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Superbone »

The young people of today are going to be stuck with a huge stinkin' mess when they wake up and get to our side of the equation.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Indy »

Superbone wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:24 pm
The young people of today are going to be stuck with a huge stinkin' mess when they wake up and get to our side of the equation.
Yep, and they will have us to thank for that. It is so depressing.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 15951
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Mori Chu »

I don't have anything against religion or Christianity. But Christians have huge blind spots where they think that their religious behaviors are "neutral" or not favoring any specific religion. And they tend to get pissy when you try to do things that give space for all religions, even little things like saying "Happy Holidays" rather than only allowing their one specific one to be recognized with "Merry Christmas."

The key litmus test for whether some Christian BS thing is wrong or not is, would they tolerate it if the same thing were done by Muslims? For example, at a US public school, at the start of the day what if they had everyone do a Muslim prayer, then turn east and bowing to the Mecca? Christians would throw an absolute fit if a Muslim tried to do that to their children. So they shouldn't force their prayers on the rest of us, either.

They might say, "Well, that's different, because we are a Christian nation, not a Muslim nation." And they're wrong about that. We are everybody's nation. Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, anybody. They better get used to it.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Indy »

I mean even their "Founding Fathers" weren't Christian. At least not the major ones we talk about.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 6511
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Nodack »

There you go Indy

Atheist worker fired after refusing to attend company’s Christian prayer in NC, feds say
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state ... 57338.html
A home repair company’s mandatory daily Christian prayer sessions for its employees were becoming “less tolerable” for an atheist construction manager who refused to continue attending — resulting in his firing in North Carolina, federal officials said in a lawsuit. His boss told him “he did not have to believe in God, and he did not have to like the prayer meetings, but he had to participate” before the worker was fired in the fall of 2020, according to a complaint filed by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission against the Greensboro-based business. This came after his pay was cut in half. The worker was asked to lead a prayer session on one occasion, despite making his beliefs known, prior to losing his job with Aurora Pro Services, the EEOC said.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Indy »

Again, apply the "he didn't have to like it, but we have to face Mecca and pray including saying Allahu akbar a dozen times each day" to a requirement of employment or attending school or whatever and it would be shut down by every branch of government in minutes.

This is why we need to make it happen. And start talking to historically black churches and Mosques and push setting up as many private schools based on vouchers, and push open carry of military style weapons. You will see things change.

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 7647
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Supreme Court

Post by Cap »

Indy wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:08 pm
Again, apply the "he didn't have to like it, but we have to face Mecca and pray including saying Allahu akbar a dozen times each day" to a requirement of employment or attending school or whatever and it would be shut down by every branch of government in minutes.
Unless it’s shut down by an AR-15-wielding patriot before the government has a chance to.
And start talking to historically black churches and Mosques and push setting up as many private schools based on vouchers, and push open carry of military style weapons. You will see things change.
I’d have no idea how to go about selling that. “Start carrying military style weapons! Cops and ‘patriots’ will shoot you on sight, but you’ll be making a great political point.” I guess I’ll have to leave the sales pitch to you.

Post Reply