Supreme Court justice

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Nodack
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Nodack » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:16 am

I know it seems like a futile attempt to stop Kavanaugh from being confirmed but, the Dems only need to turn two Republicans and they know exactly which two Republicans they want to turn. Alaska and Hawaii reps are women who both said they won’t vote for a judge who wants to overturn Roe v Wade.

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Indy
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Indy » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:40 am

I can't see him getting rejected. He wasn't even on the list of potentials from the Trump camp when they chose Gorsuch. It wasn't until the Mueller probe started up, then he appears on the list. After he stated that seating presidents can't be indicted (although most people believe this to be the case), and that a sitting president could pardon himself. Hmm.

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Nodack
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Nodack » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:43 pm

Are you saying Trump was only thinking of helping himself when he made the pick? He also wants to verturn Roe V Wade.

WALLACE: You just said you want to see the court protect the Second Amendment. Do you want to see the court overturn Roe v. Wade?

TRUMP: Well, if we put another two or perhaps three justices on, that's really what’s going to be — that will happen and that will happen automatically in my opinion because I am putting pro-life justices on the court.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:32 am

So now over the weekend there has been a lot of buzz about this accusation from a woman claiming that judge Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her when they were in high school:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... edirect=on

Some Republicans are even saying that the vote should be delayed until this is investigated. What do you think?

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ShelC
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by ShelC » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:13 am

To me, it's pretty clear this was a last ditch effort and delay tactic by the Dems (Feinstein). I'm fine with that because of the BS the Rs play all the time. Of course, they whined about the allegation at first but it became very real over the weekend. Her name is out there, she passed a polygraph and has therapist notes. Still, I don't put anything past the Rs.

One thing has been made pretty clear, to me at least - and that's Kavanaugh seems less a conservative judge and more of a GOP operative which is why they've been covering up so much and trying to push him thru.

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Indy
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Indy » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:10 am

ShelC wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:13 am
To me, it's pretty clear this was a last ditch effort and delay tactic by the Dems (Feinstein). I'm fine with that because of the BS the Rs play all the time. Of course, they whined about the allegation at first but it became very real over the weekend. Her name is out there, she passed a polygraph and has therapist notes. Still, I don't put anything past the Rs.

One thing has been made pretty clear, to me at least - and that's Kavanaugh seems less a conservative judge and more of a GOP operative which is why they've been covering up so much and trying to push him thru.
He seems like someone that would do anything or say anything to become a member of SCOTUS. You know, the kind of person that shouldn't be a judge at all, much less on the highest court in the land.

And for anyone that thinks his accuser did this for "fame" or to just throw a wrench in the works, you are crazy. She will be getting death threats day and night for who knows how long. And lying to congress is a punishable offense. There is no upside for her.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:42 pm

In general I think it's a bad precedent to go all the way back to someone's high school (under-18) behavior and scrutinize them if they're running for public office. Most people grow and learn a lot after they're that age, and they in many cases aren't really the same person any more.

Rape / sexual assault are a possible exception to this. If you are willing to do that to a woman at 17, that's probably part of who you are.

I don't want Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS for many reasons. The current allegation is just one of the many reasons. To me it seems like there are enough strikes against him that he shouldn't be confirmed. I also think this will likely push the whole process back until after the 2018 midterm elections.

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Indy
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Indy » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:40 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:42 pm
In general I think it's a bad precedent to go all the way back to someone's high school (under-18) behavior and scrutinize them if they're running for public office. Most people grow and learn a lot after they're that age, and they in many cases aren't really the same person any more.

Rape / sexual assault are a possible exception to this. If you are willing to do that to a woman at 17, that's probably part of who you are.

I don't want Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS for many reasons. The current allegation is just one of the many reasons. To me it seems like there are enough strikes against him that he shouldn't be confirmed. I also think this will likely push the whole process back until after the 2018 midterm elections.
I don't think your logic makes any sense here, Marty. Most people grow and change so that their decisions made pre-18 are *not* who they are, unless it was some type of sexual assault, then that *is* who they are? Seems like a strange distinction to draw.

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In2ition
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by In2ition » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:00 am

Indy wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:40 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:42 pm
In general I think it's a bad precedent to go all the way back to someone's high school (under-18) behavior and scrutinize them if they're running for public office. Most people grow and learn a lot after they're that age, and they in many cases aren't really the same person any more.

Rape / sexual assault are a possible exception to this. If you are willing to do that to a woman at 17, that's probably part of who you are.

I don't want Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS for many reasons. The current allegation is just one of the many reasons. To me it seems like there are enough strikes against him that he shouldn't be confirmed. I also think this will likely push the whole process back until after the 2018 midterm elections.
I don't think your logic makes any sense here, Marty. Most people grow and change so that their decisions made pre-18 are *not* who they are, unless it was some type of sexual assault, then that *is* who they are? Seems like a strange distinction to draw.
If they don't change, then shouldn't the sentencing be different for criminals found guilty? What is it now? Maybe more permanent.
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ShelC
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by ShelC » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:10 am

One of the stronger points I've seen made on social media is that if the GOP is just going to dismiss this allegation and push thru the nomination because "Kavanaugh was a drunken teen and it shouldn't impact him as an adult", then they're pretty much saying it's OK for teenage boys right now to do the same thing and later claim they were just teens who didn't know any better. Talk about precedent.

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Nodack
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Nodack » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:59 pm

On one hand I think the timing of these claims seems suspect and comes across as a desperate last minute attempt to derail Kavenaugh’s appointment by Democrats even though I don’t want Kavenaugh appointed.

On the other hand if it is a legit claim then maybe they should look into it. It seems to me that it is a he said she said thing that cannot be proven either way. It all comes down to convincing two female Republicans that Kavenaugh is the wrong guy.

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Indy
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:29 am

I think there is a reason he doesn't want the FBI to question him. Lying to Congress is only a crime if congress wants to push it, and won't if the GOP is in control. Lying to the FBI is a federal crime that they will enforce regardless of who is in charge. It is telling that Dr. Ford wants to talk to the FBI and judge Kavanaugh doesn't.

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Indy
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:29 am

In2ition wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:00 am
Indy wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:40 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:42 pm
In general I think it's a bad precedent to go all the way back to someone's high school (under-18) behavior and scrutinize them if they're running for public office. Most people grow and learn a lot after they're that age, and they in many cases aren't really the same person any more.

Rape / sexual assault are a possible exception to this. If you are willing to do that to a woman at 17, that's probably part of who you are.

I don't want Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS for many reasons. The current allegation is just one of the many reasons. To me it seems like there are enough strikes against him that he shouldn't be confirmed. I also think this will likely push the whole process back until after the 2018 midterm elections.
I don't think your logic makes any sense here, Marty. Most people grow and change so that their decisions made pre-18 are *not* who they are, unless it was some type of sexual assault, then that *is* who they are? Seems like a strange distinction to draw.
If they don't change, then shouldn't the sentencing be different for criminals found guilty? What is it now? Maybe more permanent.
I don't follow. If what doesn't change?

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In2ition
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by In2ition » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:37 am

Indy wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:29 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:00 am
Indy wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:40 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:42 pm
In general I think it's a bad precedent to go all the way back to someone's high school (under-18) behavior and scrutinize them if they're running for public office. Most people grow and learn a lot after they're that age, and they in many cases aren't really the same person any more.

Rape / sexual assault are a possible exception to this. If you are willing to do that to a woman at 17, that's probably part of who you are.

I don't want Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS for many reasons. The current allegation is just one of the many reasons. To me it seems like there are enough strikes against him that he shouldn't be confirmed. I also think this will likely push the whole process back until after the 2018 midterm elections.
I don't think your logic makes any sense here, Marty. Most people grow and change so that their decisions made pre-18 are *not* who they are, unless it was some type of sexual assault, then that *is* who they are? Seems like a strange distinction to draw.
If they don't change, then shouldn't the sentencing be different for criminals found guilty? What is it now? Maybe more permanent.
I don't follow. If what doesn't change?
I was talking about the bolded statement by Marty, kind of backing up your point. If you can't change "who you are" from 17 to whenever, why let them out into society, after being found guilty?
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

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Cap
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Cap » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:43 am

Indy wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:29 am
Lying to the FBI is a federal crime that they will enforce regardless of who is in charge.
So is contempt of court. Turned out not to be much of a problem for Arpaio.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:36 am

In2ition wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:37 am
I was talking about the bolded statement by Marty, kind of backing up your point. If you can't change "who you are" from 17 to whenever, why let them out into society, after being found guilty?
We let people out, but that doesn't mean they face zero consequences. Some jobs won't hire people with various criminal activity in their past. If Kavanaugh raped, my argument is not that he should be put to death / spend the rest of his life in jail. More that it would in my mind disqualify him from serving as an arbiter for truth and justice on the country's highest court. The standards for what makes a suitable Supreme Court justice should be very high. No rapists / sexual assaulters on the Supreme Court seems like a perfectly valid standard to me.

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In2ition
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by In2ition » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:46 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:36 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:37 am
I was talking about the bolded statement by Marty, kind of backing up your point. If you can't change "who you are" from 17 to whenever, why let them out into society, after being found guilty?
We let people out, but that doesn't mean they face zero consequences. Some jobs won't hire people with various criminal activity in their past. If Kavanaugh raped, my argument is not that he should be put to death / spend the rest of his life in jail. More that it would in my mind disqualify him from serving as an arbiter for truth and justice on the country's highest court. The standards for what makes a suitable Supreme Court justice should be very high. No rapists / sexual assaulters on the Supreme Court seems like a perfectly valid standard to me.
I agree at the very least that should be the smallest of standards that need to apply.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

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Indy
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:56 am

In2ition wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:37 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:29 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:00 am
Indy wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:40 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:42 pm
In general I think it's a bad precedent to go all the way back to someone's high school (under-18) behavior and scrutinize them if they're running for public office. Most people grow and learn a lot after they're that age, and they in many cases aren't really the same person any more.

Rape / sexual assault are a possible exception to this. If you are willing to do that to a woman at 17, that's probably part of who you are.

I don't want Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS for many reasons. The current allegation is just one of the many reasons. To me it seems like there are enough strikes against him that he shouldn't be confirmed. I also think this will likely push the whole process back until after the 2018 midterm elections.
I don't think your logic makes any sense here, Marty. Most people grow and change so that their decisions made pre-18 are *not* who they are, unless it was some type of sexual assault, then that *is* who they are? Seems like a strange distinction to draw.
If they don't change, then shouldn't the sentencing be different for criminals found guilty? What is it now? Maybe more permanent.
I don't follow. If what doesn't change?
I was talking about the bolded statement by Marty, kind of backing up your point. If you can't change "who you are" from 17 to whenever, why let them out into society, after being found guilty?
short answer would be "never changing who you are" doesn't necessarily mean "will repeated behave that way."

But either way, it looks like we all agree that anyone that tried to rape/sexually assault someone shouldn't be a judge.

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Cap
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Cap » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:21 am

What ever happened to the principle of not confirming SCOTUS justices during the year before an election? Shouldn’t we wait for the new Senate so that “the people can have their say”? Or does that principle only apply when it’s used to interfere with Democratic governance?
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

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Indy
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Re: Supreme Court justice

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:32 am

Cap wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:21 am
What ever happened to the principle of not confirming SCOTUS justices during the year before an election? Shouldn’t we wait for the new Senate so that “the people can have their say”? Or does that principle only apply when it’s used to interfere with Democratic governance?
I think you know the answer to that. And the GOP would argue that since it is the president that nominates SCOTUS justices, and he isn't coming up for an election, their 'precedent' stands.

Of course it is all bullshit, but has been very effective for them.

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