Mutiny in the WH?

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Nodack
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Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Nodack » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:55 am

The New York Times came out with a story claiming a senior WH staff member came to them and told them that he and others in the WH staff are basically trying to protect America from Trump by thwarting his moves. This right on the heals of Bob Woodwards book claiming the same thing and more. If Trump wasn’t paranoid enough already now he has mutiny in his ranks. The Times have withheld his or her name.

Woodwards book has a bunch of quotes from Trumps senior staff where they basically call him a loose cannon and an idiot using various language. I think this, all the books coming out, the Mueller Investigation and the Republicans losing the Midterms will send Trump over the edge and just in time for impeachment hearings.

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Indy
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:36 am

I can't believe they would publish an anonymous op-ed. That goes against what op-eds should be. And nothing in that op-ed is new info, or even items that could be substantiated. Really poor journalism on their end.

As far as the Woodward book, that is pretty telling. He doesn't make s*** up. I read a few things yesterday about former people quoted in other books of his. They were pissed when the books came out because it quoted them saying awful things about their bosses. But none of them denied it. They knew they said it. The last one I read was from a Clinton staffer that had said really bad things about the Clintons. And he said that it was horrible to read him quoted, and made him really made, and people accused Woodward of making it up (since it was seen as a Dem hit-piece, and Woodward is seen as a Republican by Dems, and a Dem by the GOP). But he admitted he said it.

Long story short, Woodward has a long history of taking very meticulous notes, using first-hand sources, and not making s*** up. He did that with Nixon. Same with Clintons, and even being very critical of Obama. It seems the president he was most "friendly" with was Bush Jr during his 1st term, and was a regular Fox News guest during that time.

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ShelC
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by ShelC » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:45 am

I think a few things can be taken from this:

It basically confirms what just about everyone has been saying about Trump. From the anonymous sources, to Omorosa, to the Woodward Book to other former staff who have come out. He's unfit to be President, from an emotional and psychological standpoint. It really has little to do with politics it seems. And there are only so many times Trump can point the finger at "fake news", the "deep state", disgruntled former employees, etc, before people finally shake their heads and go "No, it's you".

When reading that op-ed, it certainly had a political overtone (no surprise) but more in that it came off as almost an official WH statement to the people. It wasn't gossip fodder from someone like Omorosa, it wasn't leaked quotes demonizing Trump (sh*thole countries), it wasn't petty namecalling by subordinates. It read like a plea to the people to remain hopeful, that those inside are aware of how the administration looks and acts and aren't just sycophants. I thought it very much isolated and pointed the finger squarely at Trump as the cause of all of the dysfunction and outrage.

Right away, for whatever reason I thought of Mike Pence. The op-ed read like a WH statement, even a Presidential Statement. He's always been part of the political "norm" and is capable of delivering a message like that. While he's been in the background for the most part, I've noticed him at times speak in contrast to Trump when things get really out of hand. It's almost as if Trump does his crazy routine and then Pence goes out and settles things down. And of course, social media picked apart the op-ed and honed in on the word "lodestar", which has apparently been a favorite word of Pence in speeches for years. That's either a dead giveaway, or someone misdirecting.

Either way, it seems like people in the administration are distancing themselves from Trump. They must know the walls are closing in with Mueller, Cohen, the NY State investigations and midterms. This was either a legit attempt at speaking to the people or those high up in the admin/GOP hedging their bets when impeachment comes and trying to say "it's not us, it's him".

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Indy
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:58 am

ShelC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:45 am
And of course, social media picked apart the op-ed and honed in on the word "lodestar", which has apparently been a favorite word of Pence in speeches for years. That's either a dead giveaway, or someone misdirecting.
I read that some of the folks running "alt" accounts on social media intentionally look for common idioms and phrases from others within the white house and use them regularly to throw off the scent. I can't imagine Pence would be stupid enough to write that op-ed, or use lodestar in it.

You just know that the person writing that op-ed was dying to find a way to include lodestar, and it worked.

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ShelC
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by ShelC » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:02 am

Part of me actually thinks it's Stephen Miller just trolling everyone.

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Superbone
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Superbone » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:53 am

Indy wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:36 am
I read a few things yesterday about former people quoted in other books of his.
What are these former people now? Like werewolves and s***?
O_Gardino: "Ntilikina is going to lead the NBA in assists once he gets going[2025]..."

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Superbone
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Superbone » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:55 am

Indy wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:58 am
ShelC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:45 am
And of course, social media picked apart the op-ed and honed in on the word "lodestar", which has apparently been a favorite word of Pence in speeches for years. That's either a dead giveaway, or someone misdirecting.
I read that some of the folks running "alt" accounts on social media intentionally look for common idioms and phrases from others within the white house and use them regularly to throw off the scent. I can't imagine Pence would be stupid enough to write that op-ed, or use lodestar in it.

You just know that the person writing that op-ed was dying to find a way to include lodestar, and it worked.
OTOH, often people who hang out with you pick up certain words and phrases that you use and start using them themselves.
O_Gardino: "Ntilikina is going to lead the NBA in assists once he gets going[2025]..."

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ShelC
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by ShelC » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:30 am

My money's on Bryan Colangelo's wife.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:44 am

Pence: "I got hacked"

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:48 am

The following two responses to the NYT op-ed pretty much sum up how I feel about it. From David Frum in The Atlantic: "This Is a Constitutional Crisis"

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... is/569443/

And this Twitter thread from Peter Shulman.

https://twitter.com/pashulman/status/10 ... 7506999296

Also interesting: The computer science/nerd web site Hacker News has a post where some guy did a writing analysis of this op-ed and compared its writing style to every Administration official's writing and tweets. It has the highest correlation to Pence's writing, at over .800. Overall I think there is a high chance that it is written by Pence, likely with the help of one of his speechwriters or assistants.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17923335

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Nodack
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Nodack » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:49 am

I can't believe they would publish an anonymous op-ed. That goes against what op-eds should be. And nothing in that op-ed is new info, or even items that could be substantiated. Really poor journalism on their end.


"The dilemma -- which (Trump) does not fully grasp -- is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations," the Times piece reads.
"I would know. I am one of them."

This anonymous person came to them and they confirmed his or hers identity. They know who he or she is. It’s not some note sent to them from an anonymous source they can’t confirm. The Times wouldn’t publish this unless they felt certain about it. The info was similar to what Woodward claimed in his book and they both came out withing hours of each other. It was new info to me. Until that day I didn’t know for sure that people in the WH were working against Trump. When I saw Trumps entire core have a news conference to say they are indeed working together to thwart Russias attempts to sway our elections while Trump was on a trip that came across as them doing it to n their own as if to tell America that “Trump may not care what Russia is doing but, we are taking care of it so don’t worry America?”

If it was Pence, it raises some questions. God told Pence he would become President. This could be seen as Pence trying to speed up being President by throwing Trump under the bus if it is in fact Pence. Doesn’t that raise some sort of Constitutional questions too?

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ShelC
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by ShelC » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:39 am

The part about invoking the 25th Amendment was very surprising to me. That's not something to be thrown out to the public nonchalantly.

One thing I'm almost 100% sure about...Trump will not give in, will not resign, and will fight impeachment every way he can. Even if his senior officials - Pence, Pompeo, Bolton, Miller - all tell him it's time to go, he won't. Nothing about doing "what's right for the country", "what's right for his agenda", "stepping down for his own good" will get thru to him.

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Indy
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:42 am

Nodack wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:49 am
I can't believe they would publish an anonymous op-ed. That goes against what op-eds should be. And nothing in that op-ed is new info, or even items that could be substantiated. Really poor journalism on their end.


"The dilemma -- which (Trump) does not fully grasp -- is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations," the Times piece reads.
"I would know. I am one of them."

This anonymous person came to them and they confirmed his or hers identity. They know who he or she is. It’s not some note sent to them from an anonymous source they can’t confirm. The Times wouldn’t publish this unless they felt certain about it. The info was similar to what Woodward claimed in his book and they both came out withing hours of each other. It was new info to me. Until that day I didn’t know for sure that people in the WH were working against Trump. When I saw Trumps entire core have a news conference to say they are indeed working together to thwart Russias attempts to sway our elections while Trump was on a trip that came across as them doing it to n their own as if to tell America that “Trump may not care what Russia is doing but, we are taking care of it so don’t worry America?”

If it was Pence, it raises some questions. God told Pence he would become President. This could be seen as Pence trying to speed up being President by throwing Trump under the bus if it is in fact Pence. Doesn’t that raise some sort of Constitutional questions too?
If you want to publish the article, you report on it. You assign a reporter, they interview the person (even as an anonymous source), and put their name in the by-line asserting that they talked to this senior official and this is what they said. This is exactly what Woodward did. Except it takes a lot of work to do what he did. You spend hundreds of hours corroborating stories by using only first hand witnesses that are able to confirm or deny what you were told. You don't put it in an op-ed because you are too lazy or too scared or too whatever to put a name by it.

Also, on your part about them knowing who it is, they only worked with an intermediary. They never talked to the actual person that wrote it. So again, you can't actually report on it by vetting it.

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Indy
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:43 am

ShelC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:39 am
The part about invoking the 25th Amendment was very surprising to me. That's not something to be thrown out to the public nonchalantly.

One thing I'm almost 100% sure about...Trump will not give in, will not resign, and will fight impeachment every way he can. Even if his senior officials - Pence, Pompeo, Bolton, Miller - all tell him it's time to go, he won't. Nothing about doing "what's right for the country", "what's right for his agenda", "stepping down for his own good" will get thru to him.
The only way they could get through is if he felt he was getting one over on them. If he felt resigning was good for his personal finances, he may do it. But only then.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:59 pm

ShelC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:39 am
The part about invoking the 25th Amendment was very surprising to me. That's not something to be thrown out to the public nonchalantly.

One thing I'm almost 100% sure about...Trump will not give in, will not resign, and will fight impeachment every way he can. Even if his senior officials - Pence, Pompeo, Bolton, Miller - all tell him it's time to go, he won't. Nothing about doing "what's right for the country", "what's right for his agenda", "stepping down for his own good" will get thru to him.
I think he would resign if he thought it would avoid his otherwise losing his business and/or fortune, or if he thought it would get him out of prison time. That's it. For example, if Mueller seems to have ensnared him and is about to file charges, Trump might resign on the condition that Mueller ended the investigation. Or something like that.

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Indy
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:07 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:59 pm
ShelC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:39 am
The part about invoking the 25th Amendment was very surprising to me. That's not something to be thrown out to the public nonchalantly.

One thing I'm almost 100% sure about...Trump will not give in, will not resign, and will fight impeachment every way he can. Even if his senior officials - Pence, Pompeo, Bolton, Miller - all tell him it's time to go, he won't. Nothing about doing "what's right for the country", "what's right for his agenda", "stepping down for his own good" will get thru to him.
I think he would resign if he thought it would avoid his otherwise losing his business and/or fortune, or if he thought it would get him out of prison time. That's it. For example, if Mueller seems to have ensnared him and is about to file charges, Trump might resign on the condition that Mueller ended the investigation. Or something like that.
But everyone in and around the justice department (including Mueller) says the standing opinion is you cannot indict a sitting president. So Trump just pardons himself before he leaves office (either in 2021 or 2025). He isn't in legal jeopardy. Maybe if they found enough evidence of state crimes to hang over his head, and told him that when he finally leaves office they will charge him with those? But those my be getting far back in his past, and could be up against their statute of limitations.

It is all f*** up.

As a result, I think one thing I think most states could get behind is limiting the pardon power of presidents. It would be a long journey, but I could see the next amendment being that.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:40 pm

The charges against the President will likely come in state court, where the POTUS has no pardon power.

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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:18 pm

Only the best people...

f*** clown.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Nodack » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:12 pm

Was watching TV and Herman Cain came on in a commercial for a PAC America Fighting Back. He was talking about fighting back against impeachment of Trump and evil Socialist agenda.

https://www.americafightingbackpac.com
America is under attack. We need you to stand up and Fight Back!
Get the latest news and updates from America Fighting Back PAC. Sign up and add your name next to Herman Cain and tens of thousands of other Americans. We must protect Donald Trump and his agenda from impeachment.

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Re: Mutiny in the WH?

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:24 pm

Add Herman Cain to the list of traitors.
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