Democratic primary watch

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:24 am

Indy wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:08 am
Nodack wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:25 pm
As most of you know I am a musician. I sing and play guitar and at times am expected to speak to audiences and make announcements. I am famous in my main band for F’ing up announcements. I just start stumbling over the words and wrong words come out. I guess I get nervous or something. I feel I think just fine but, there is something about speaking in front of a bunch of people that turns me into Biden. His speaking gaffs don’t bother me because I can relate.

As far as all of them being old white guys? I voted for Obama because I liked him best, not because he was black. I am going to vote for whoever the Dem nominee is. I don’t care if they are white, black, old, young or whatever. We had a huge diverse group of candidates and now it’s down to three old white guys. It happens. Are old white guys no longer allowed?
The lack of diversity means lack of thought and experience diversity as well. Old white guys that came of age in the late 50s are not what we need to lead this country. They literally grew up with Leave it to Beaver as an accurate representation of life.
I don’t think that’s fair. Old guys have lived through Leave it to Beaver and everything since. Their life experience is way beyond someone much younger. Their lives didn’t end in the 50’s.

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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:55 am

I didn't say it ended there. But if they live an average life, they will be dead within 15 years. The problems we have to address need thinking that goes out decades. And most people, especially privileged people in this country, are not good at seeing problems they never had to face. We need people running our country that have experiences beyond that.

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Superbone
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:58 am

Indy wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:55 am
I didn't say it ended there. But if they live an average life, they will be dead within 15 years. The problems we have to address need thinking that goes out decades. And most people, especially privileged people in this country, are not good at seeing problems they never had to face. We need people running our country that have experiences beyond that.
You mean like the guy in office now? Hey, I like Ocasio-Cortez as much as the next guy but she's not ready to lead our country.
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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:26 pm

Superbone wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:58 am
Indy wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:55 am
I didn't say it ended there. But if they live an average life, they will be dead within 15 years. The problems we have to address need thinking that goes out decades. And most people, especially privileged people in this country, are not good at seeing problems they never had to face. We need people running our country that have experiences beyond that.
You mean like the guy in office now? Hey, I like Ocasio-Cortez as much as the next guy but she's not ready to lead our country.
I didn't say she is. But there is a good balance between white guy millionaires in their 70s and lower-middle class latina's the same age as Taylor Swift.

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specialsauce
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:21 pm

AOC isn’t ready to lead our country not because she is too young, but because she’s way too one sided with her world view. The best leader will take consideration of all viewpoints and come up with a well balanced plan.

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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:13 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:21 pm
AOC isn’t ready to lead our country not because she is too young, but because she’s way too one sided with her world view. The best leader will take consideration of all viewpoints and come up with a well balanced plan.
Yes, but the same can be said for Bernie and Biden. I mean, Biden was arguing for keeping schools segregated, and Bernie was writing about how women fantasize about being raped. These guys are relics in all the wrong ways.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:31 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:59 am
That is where I am leaning. I like more of Bernie's policy ideas, but he can't get new people excited to vote for him. Which means they will stay home on election day, and not get any down-ballot Senators elected.
This is where I'm falling. I think Bernie would be a much riskier candidate, and it is absolutely imperative that Trump be defeated and removed from office. Can't take a risk like that in 2020. Also I believe as you say that Biden will bring more down-ballot wins for senators and house members and other offices, which are crucial to undoing the massive damage Trump has inflicted.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:33 pm

I saw a tweet that I couldn't disagree with. It said something like, "I have never heard a single person tell me they want to vote for Joe Biden because of any policy position that he holds." It's true. Biden doesn't have any great ideas, any grand plans, any passionate issues. He's running on nothing. People will vote for him because he isn't Trump, and because they want a return to some kind of normality. I worry that he doesn't inspire any passion in the voters. But if black voters and moderates turn out for him when they wouldn't for Bernie or Warren, so be it.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:04 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:55 am
I didn't say it ended there. But if they live an average life, they will be dead within 15 years. The problems we have to address need thinking that goes out decades. And most people, especially privileged people in this country, are not good at seeing problems they never had to face. We need people running our country that have experiences beyond that.
I am not buying it. I am pretty old. I have lived through a lot of different times. I post all the time about my vision of the future and where it’s heading. As a politician it’s your job.

AOC’s life experiences are just beginning. She is a noob and like all young people think they think have it all figured out and know everything. They don’t. They have some good fresh ideas. They haven’t been corrupted yet.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:12 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:13 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:21 pm
AOC isn’t ready to lead our country not because she is too young, but because she’s way too one sided with her world view. The best leader will take consideration of all viewpoints and come up with a well balanced plan.
Yes, but the same can be said for Bernie and Biden. I mean, Biden was arguing for keeping schools segregated, and Bernie was writing about how women fantasize about being raped. These guys are relics in all the wrong ways.
And when did they say these things? Biden in 1975? Bernie in some essay in 1972? When they were younger and more immature like AOC? AOC wasn’t even born yet. My old roommate told me his girlfriend actually did have a rape fantasy.

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specialsauce
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:44 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:33 pm
I saw a tweet that I couldn't disagree with. It said something like, "I have never heard a single person tell me they want to vote for Joe Biden because of any policy position that he holds." It's true. Biden doesn't have any great ideas, any grand plans, any passionate issues. He's running on nothing. People will vote for him because he isn't Trump, and because they want a return to some kind of normality. I worry that he doesn't inspire any passion in the voters. But if black voters and moderates turn out for him when they wouldn't for Bernie or Warren, so be it.
He’s not Trump and he’s not Sanders so I’ll vote for him even if I don’t really like him in particular. I’ll figure not much groundbreaking will happen for 4 years and then we can reevaluate

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:03 am

After Trump wrecking ball Presidency, people welcome a normal boring candidate.

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Cap
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Cap » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:44 pm

Personally, I’m not interested in any grand legislative proposals of the next POTUS. I just want somebody who can rebuild and competently manage the executive. Biden’s more qualified to do that than Sanders, so he would be my preference between the two, but I’ll obviously vote for anybody against Trump.
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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:46 pm

Nodack wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:12 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:13 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:21 pm
AOC isn’t ready to lead our country not because she is too young, but because she’s way too one sided with her world view. The best leader will take consideration of all viewpoints and come up with a well balanced plan.
Yes, but the same can be said for Bernie and Biden. I mean, Biden was arguing for keeping schools segregated, and Bernie was writing about how women fantasize about being raped. These guys are relics in all the wrong ways.
And when did they say these things? Biden in 1975? Bernie in some essay in 1972? When they were younger and more immature like AOC? AOC wasn’t even born yet. My old roommate told me his girlfriend actually did have a rape fantasy.
They were both older than AOC when they said these things. And both statements are rooted in bigotry. Say what you will about how far left AOCs views are, but none of them are racist or bigoted.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:55 pm

Times have changed a lot since then. People change. Views change. Obama was against same sex marriages right before he was elected.

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specialsauce
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:02 pm

Nodack wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:55 pm
Times have changed a lot since then. People change. Views change. Obama was against same sex marriages right before he was elected.
So how far back does the statute of limitations wand work and forgive past statements?

2 years back?
10 years back?

Do we forgive Trump for wanting to grab a girl by the pussy?

So that’s not okay but talking about fantasizing about rape is okay?

None of it is okay.

People say dumb things when they are young. It’s more understandable (still cringeworthy) when it’s a young man that’s immature and mentally half developed to me, but it’s still wrong.

I don’t think any of us are innocent. I certainly said stupid things as a teenager I would be embarrassed of now

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:09 am

So that’s not okay but talking about fantasizing about rape is okay?
It wasn’t Sanders fantasizing about rape. It was an essay and the topic was women fantasizing about rape.

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specialsauce
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:41 am

Nodack wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:09 am
So that’s not okay but talking about fantasizing about rape is okay?
It wasn’t Sanders fantasizing about rape. It was an essay and the topic was women fantasizing about rape.
Sorry yes that’s what I meant

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:45 am

My general take on this stuff is that while I don't condone the behavior/words, I don't think it makes much sense to attack politicians for things they said or did 50 years ago. I rolled my eyes during Kamala Harris's attack on Joe Biden for his stance on racial bussing in the 1970s. That was an eternity ago. I'd rather look at what the politician has done since that time, what their current stances are on important issues, etc. I do think there's some window where these things matter; if the politician did something vile, say, 10-15 years ago, that matters. Or if they did something bad in the past and have never atoned for it, never changed their views, never evolved, that matters. But it's obvious to me that Bernie Sanders would be a champion for the rights of women and minorities if he were elected President. What is the point of dragging up some 50-year-old essay he wrote as a young man that seems politically awkward now, which is obviously superceded by his current progressive and inclusive views?

As a point of contrast, Donald Trump demonstrated a lot of racist behavior back in the 70s and 80s, such as trying to deny black tenants from his real estate properties and trying to incite public opinion against the black Central Park Five. While those incidents are also ages ago, since that time Trump seems to have demonstrated no decrease in racism whatsoever; he still hates brown and black people with the same vigor he did then. So I find his past actions more relevant given that he still seems to espouse and act on the same racist views today.

BigLewy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by BigLewy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:03 am

Interesting how this news about a Biden sexual assault is basically buried anywhere you look. Stumbled on it on Twitter and had to actually search Yahoo for it. Could just be a case of someone with an axe to grind, who knows. But let's face it, if this was something about Trump (who I am not a fan of), this would be ALL over every website imaginable. CNN does not have one thing on its main page about this. I loathe politicians, all of them.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/joe-bid ... 41946.html

This little nugget was interesting.

Following her accusations against Biden, reports from Ryan Grim at The Intercept detailed all the ways Reade was stonewalled in telling her story — including from Time’s Up, the high-profile organization founded to help survivors tell their stories in the midst of the #MeToo movement, which is housed within the National Women’s Law Center. According to Grim’s reporting, Reade asked for help from the organization in January of this year, but she was told they could not help her because it would jeopardize their non-profit status due to the fact that he was a presidential candidate.

“As a nonprofit 501(c)(3) charitable organization, the National Women’s Law Center is restricted in how it can spend its funds, including restrictions that pertain to candidates running for election,” NWLC spokesperson, Maria Patrick, told The Intercept. It was also revealed in the same story that “the public relations firm that works on behalf of the Time’s Up Legal Defense Fund is SKDKnickerbocker, whose managing director, Anita Dunn, is the top adviser to Biden’s presidential campaign.”

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