Democratic primary watch

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16738
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:08 pm

I'm voting this weekend. I'm leaning toward Mayor Pete.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3912
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:52 pm

Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:08 pm
I'm voting this weekend. I'm leaning toward Mayor Pete.
Power to you. He has zero experience. I like some of what he says though, even if it’s all calculated.

This field is a group of misfits. I’ll ultimately vote for the democratic candidate, but it’s solely because the alternative is Trump. I hate the direction of both parties.

If our options are Bernie and Donald next year, God help us.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16738
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:06 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:52 pm
Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:08 pm
I'm voting this weekend. I'm leaning toward Mayor Pete.
Power to you. He has zero experience. I like some of what he says though, even if it’s all calculated.

This field is a group of misfits. I’ll ultimately vote for the democratic candidate, but it’s solely because the alternative is Trump. I hate the direction of both parties.

If our options are Bernie and Donald next year, God help us.
Who will you pick out of the cast of misfits and why?
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3912
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:11 pm

Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:06 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:52 pm
Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:08 pm
I'm voting this weekend. I'm leaning toward Mayor Pete.
Power to you. He has zero experience. I like some of what he says though, even if it’s all calculated.

This field is a group of misfits. I’ll ultimately vote for the democratic candidate, but it’s solely because the alternative is Trump. I hate the direction of both parties.

If our options are Bernie and Donald next year, God help us.
Who will you pick out of the cast of misfits and why?
I’m not sure yet honestly. I just know I’ve ruled out Bernie and Bloomberg. I don’t think Pete or Amy stand a chance, so I’m not sure voting for them will make for a useful vote.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3912
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:14 pm

I hate that the parties have both gone so extreme. Democrats lost last election and instead of going more moderate their solution was that we weren’t progressive enough! Extreme, unrealistic, inefficient policies that would be left to a government that can’t do anything right. Meanwhile you have the hillbilly Republicans that have basically made Idiocracy the movie come true.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:38 am

Collectively we are all dumb asses as a country. I am not thrilled with the Dem choices or the direction of the either, but I like all of them a hell of a lot more than Trump and the insane Republican party.

People say Bernie and the Dems are too left because they want Universal Health Care and they want the government involved and that that would make us a Commie Socialist country. It seems to me their stance would make them moderates in any other country because any other developed country already does it.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 10829
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:16 am

I think they need to find a way to winnow the field better in the future, and a way for people's ranked preferences to be factored in. Too many candidates fragment the votes, so a candidate who can get 20-25% of the vote can get the biggest plurality. And the danger is that a lot of people who voted for candidates who did poorly won't like the plurality candidate. If people could list a top-3 or top-4 candidates to vote for, and their votes would instantly jump to their next candidate if the previous one was eliminated, it would make it more likely to see a candidate people are happy with.

I think it's really bad for the process that so many candidates are still holding on in the race this late. Klobuchar and especially Steyer have no path. Their votes could really help another candidate. I also really dislike the way that Bloomberg has bought his way into the process. I don't know the best fix, but the fact that he can just dump hundreds of millions of dollars into ads and hack the system, avoiding proper vetting and accountability, is a really bad thing.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16738
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:26 pm

I refuse to strategize my vote to try and make it "count." I can't in good conscience vote for Biden as he seems to be losing it before our very eyes. Of the 78-year-olds, at least Bernie seems much more with it if he ends up being the Democratic candidate. (I don't think Bloomberg stands a chance.)
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16738
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:29 pm

I also have to imagine all the different Democratic candidates debating Trump. Pete probably wouldn't be one of the better ones. He's too nice and measured. I'd imagine Bernie, Warren, and Biden would be the best in that category.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:28 pm

Pete probably wouldn't be one of the better ones. He's too nice and measured.
I am not so sure about that. I think he is very clever and calculating. I don’t think he would hold any punches when it came to Trump and Trump gives him a LOT of ammo.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16738
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:11 pm

Nodack wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:28 pm
Pete probably wouldn't be one of the better ones. He's too nice and measured.
I am not so sure about that. I think he is very clever and calculating. I don’t think he would hold any punches when it came to Trump and Trump gives him a LOT of ammo.
If he gets that far, I hope you're right.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:16 pm

Not looking like that is going to happen, but nothing is set in stone yet.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 10829
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:26 pm

Superbone wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:29 pm
I also have to imagine all the different Democratic candidates debating Trump. Pete probably wouldn't be one of the better ones. He's too nice and measured. I'd imagine Bernie, Warren, and Biden would be the best in that category.
I think it's very likely that Trump refuses to participate in the Presidential debates. He knows privately that he'll look bad and that the debates can only hurt him, so he'll make up some excuse about the biased unfair hoax fake news media, or blah blah blah, and he'll refuse to do it. One more norm broken, with no real consequence.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3912
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:57 pm

Nodack wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:38 am
Collectively we are all dumb asses as a country. I am not thrilled with the Dem choices or the direction of the either, but I like all of them a hell of a lot more than Trump and the insane Republican party.

People say Bernie and the Dems are too left because they want Universal Health Care and they want the government involved and that that would make us a Commie Socialist country. It seems to me their stance would make them moderates in any other country because any other developed country already does it.
Yes, they are too left. How are they going to pay for it? Bernies half ass explanation doesn’t cut it. It’s astronomical. How about we focus on making healthcare affordable? Crack down on insurance company profits with a cap for them per patient and on CEO pay, and crack down on denials - what they like to twist onto the patient as a “surprise billing” when in reality it is a “surprise denial of coverage.” Crack down on hospital admin pay (CEOs making millions annually) and charges- make all charges transparent so patients can choose where to go. Eliminate “in-network” and “out-of-network” altogether for emergency and hospital care, it’s a joke. You can’t call in advance and ask if the ER doctor and surgeon are in your network- you should not be penalized, and the insurance companies have all the leverage over the docs in this case who are legally mandated to treat you without asking about insurance.

Crackdown on the pharmaceutical industry.

Crackdown on the corporate medical group takeover of physicians. Large conglomerates of physicians have been bought by private equity firms and basically the private owned physician is a goner today. Decisions in healthcare staffing are made purely based off the bottom line.

Tort reform is MANDATORY. No other country operates their healthcare under such scrutiny. We’re by far the most litigious society and healthcare is practiced accordingly- so many unnecessary work ups done as “cover your ass medicine” in fear of being sued for $10 million. Just capping out medical malpractice at $1M would make a world of a difference.

All of this stuff could be done. Would be less radical. Would actually make a difference in healthcare costs. Transferring insurance coverage from private to public doesn’t do anything to actually fix the rising costs of healthcare.

I don’t want the government in my healthcare. The VA is a mess. Medicare blows and doesn’t know it’s head from its ass. Some of the things they deny (observation visits) are completely irrational. Now you want to expand it and mandate that it is the standard health insurance? Please God no.

I’m all for healthcare as a right (to an extent, we can get into that at another time), but not with the government as the controlling insurer. Absolutely not. And I hate health insurance companies and wish they would all just burn, but the government is the worst.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 10829
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:26 am

sauce: Have you decided on a Dem candidate you like best / dislike least, yet? If you've already talked about that, sorry, I may have missed it. Who best speaks to what you would want done?

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:04 am

Everything you complained about Saucy seemed to be corporations abusing our trust, not the government.

Cut down on insurance profits? It’s a for profit capitalistic system. It seems like it’s working perfectly.

Cut down on denials? For profits make more money if they deny.

Cut down on CEO pay? The government telling a company what they can pay their bosses doesn’t sound very capitalistic.

Crackdown on the corporate medical group takeover of physicians? Once again asking the government to step in to stop a corporation.

You don’t want the government in your healthcare but you want them to regulate the hell out of the corporations.
The VA is a mess.
https://www.rand.org/news/press/2018/04/26.html
Examining a wide array of commonly used measures of health care quality, researchers found that VA hospitals generally provided better quality care than non-VA hospitals and the VA's outpatient services were better quality when compared to commercial HMOs, Medicaid HMOs and Medicare HMOs. The findings are published online by the Journal of General Internal Medicine.

I’m not arguing saucy. I just like to debate.

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 6338
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Cap » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:44 am

Nodack wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:04 am
I’m not arguing saucy. I just like to debate.
:?:

What’s the difference between arguing and debating?
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3912
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:47 am

Nodack wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:04 am
Everything you complained about Saucy seemed to be corporations abusing our trust, not the government.

Cut down on insurance profits? It’s a for profit capitalistic system. It seems like it’s working perfectly.

Cut down on denials? For profits make more money if they deny.

Cut down on CEO pay? The government telling a company what they can pay their bosses doesn’t sound very capitalistic.

Crackdown on the corporate medical group takeover of physicians? Once again asking the government to step in to stop a corporation.

You don’t want the government in your healthcare but you want them to regulate the hell out of the corporations.
The VA is a mess.
https://www.rand.org/news/press/2018/04/26.html
Examining a wide array of commonly used measures of health care quality, researchers found that VA hospitals generally provided better quality care than non-VA hospitals and the VA's outpatient services were better quality when compared to commercial HMOs, Medicaid HMOs and Medicare HMOs. The findings are published online by the Journal of General Internal Medicine.

I’m not arguing saucy. I just like to debate.
I like it.

The government IMO is there to ensure the people aren’t being abused by the system and that there’s not an inherent disadvantage. The playing field in a competitive market should be even

Insurance companies routinely deny coverage for reasons only God can explain. If the medical system has deemed a study necessary, it should be approved unless egregious. This is what we are paying for. Insurance companies have far too much lobbying power in Washington. Want to cut down unnecessary spending then get rid of patient satisfaction surveys where they can complain that “they didn’t do anything” when it wasn’t necessary and pass Tort reform so a 2% risk in a bad outcome doesn’t result in a $20M lawsuit, divorce and suicide if a physician makes a simple mistake or it happened to be an unusual presentation of a common diagnosis, or the hospital was grossly understaffed and overworked (again because of corporate greed). Then you will see healthcare costs dramatically decrease. I can guarantee with these two measures eliminated I would reduce my expenditures I am responsible for by 50% at least.

By EMTALA a physician must ensure the patient does not have a life, limb or sight threatening emergency when they come to the hospital. Insurance companies therefore have all the leverage in contract negotiations because they know the physician has to see the patient anyway, so why negotiate? Then we are deemed obstructionists and shoulder the blame for “surprise billing” when really BCBS is sitting in the back laughing because that was their plan all along. Offer Medicare rates which have not risen with inflation in years, rather we take it and they make millions or we fight and they put all the blame on us.

If you think the VA system works well, you aren’t in healthcare. Every physician will tell you the VA system is a skeleton stuck in the 20th century. I don’t really think there’s a point in debating this. Also they routinely see low acuity patients and transfer anyone remotely sick out, so their mortality rates will obviously be lower.

I don’t mind a Medicare for all option with public insurance alternatives and the govt giving a stipend of some sort if you choose to go public, but I sure as hell don’t want a monopoly health care.

Government should protect its people against corporate greed and abuse, and in that respect I can appreciate Warren and Sanders positions. Wanting them to regulate vs wanting them to take over are two different things.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3912
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:48 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:26 am
sauce: Have you decided on a Dem candidate you like best / dislike least, yet? If you've already talked about that, sorry, I may have missed it. Who best speaks to what you would want done?
Whoever wins the primary except Bloomberg will get my vote. I don’t like any of them though. If Mike wins I probably won’t vote.

Maybe Warren as a person. Joe is too demented. Bernie bro’s are a serious problem in this country, right there after Trump supporters on order of vile and closed minded IMO. And I don’t love his uncompromising nature. Pete is too inexperienced. Klobuchar I actually like but she doesn’t stand a chance. Mike is a corporate pervert.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:01 am

Cap wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:44 am
Nodack wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:04 am
I’m not arguing saucy. I just like to debate.
:?:

What’s the difference between arguing and debating?
Imo arguing implies anger and increased emotions.

Debating is a discussion where you argue the facts in a NON heated way.

Post Reply