Democratic primary watch

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Superbone
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Sat May 09, 2020 2:41 pm

I'll just leave this here:

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Sat May 09, 2020 6:22 pm

I watched that Maher clip. I support the goals of the #MeToo movement strongly, but I agree with some of what Maher says. Every accusation should be taken seriously and looked into. But I don't think it is right to "believe" an accuser by default over the accused in any circumstance. That is literally the opposite of the foundation of our justice system: innocent until proven guilty.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Sun May 10, 2020 1:49 am

After checking out her story I have come to the conclusion that she is messed up. Her story on everything is all over the map. She got the job working for Biden and remembers driving all the way to DC for the first time with her cat. She got the job working for Biden and remembers flying all the way to DC for the first time with her cat. She says Biden fired her. She says she quit. She praised Biden and his work protecting women many times on social media after she says he assaulted her. She hates Russia. She loves Russia and especially Putin. She made a sly comment about the timing of her accusations.

Something is rotten in Denmark. I am very sceptical.

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3rdside
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by 3rdside » Sun May 10, 2020 3:34 am

Nodack wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:49 am
After checking out her story I have come to the conclusion that she is messed up. Her story on everything is all over the map. She got the job working for Biden and remembers driving all the way to DC for the first time with her cat. She got the job working for Biden and remembers flying all the way to DC for the first time with her cat. She says Biden fired her. She says she quit. She praised Biden and his work protecting women many times on social media after she says he assaulted her. She hates Russia. She loves Russia and especially Putin. She made a sly comment about the timing of her accusations.

Something is rotten in Denmark. I am very sceptical.
One shouldn't judge a book by its front cover but with Reade, like Mikovits in the debunked conspiracy video, something about the person visually seemed off from the get go.

With Blasey Ford I got none of that feeling at all.

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Cap
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Cap » Sun May 10, 2020 5:00 am

Nodack wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:49 am
After checking out her story I have come to the conclusion that she is messed up. Her story on everything is all over the map.
Of course, the alleged incident occurred decades ago, so an unreliable memory isn’t surprising and proves nothing one way or the other.
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3rdside
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by 3rdside » Sun May 10, 2020 5:40 am

3rdside wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:43 pm
1. "railing against the patriarchy, lol" - hardly a man hater here
2. I'm pretty sure USA won't be at war against China within 4 years, but I suppose it's possible as:
3. Ray Dalio, empires and random events: the Corona virus is definitely one of those and we don't know how this is going to pan out.
FT are now saying the same thing:

https://www.ft.com/content/ffc6ac00-8de ... 4655dbd44f

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ShelC
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by ShelC » Sun May 10, 2020 6:26 am

There isn't going to be a conventional war with mutually assured destruction because the world leaders now are more interested in power and wealth than actual principals, ethics, morals and ideals. That's why there are smaller proxy wars (to keep the industrial war complex rolling), economic wars, sanctions, cyber wars now. They're all essentially in it together.

Regarding Reade and Biden...I don't really care. Do you?

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Sun May 10, 2020 9:32 am

I care if it’s true.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Sun May 10, 2020 11:19 am

Nodack wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:49 am
After checking out her story I have come to the conclusion that she is messed up. Her story on everything is all over the map. She got the job working for Biden and remembers driving all the way to DC for the first time with her cat. She got the job working for Biden and remembers flying all the way to DC for the first time with her cat. She says Biden fired her. She says she quit. She praised Biden and his work protecting women many times on social media after she says he assaulted her. She hates Russia. She loves Russia and especially Putin. She made a sly comment about the timing of her accusations.

Something is rotten in Denmark. I am very sceptical.
I think the Reade backstory is pretty murky and confusing. I find her social media posts about Putin to be really repellent. She openly gushes about what a great and inspiring and beloved leader he is, and how he's so manly and strong and sexy, and how he is irresistible to women, and she loves him with his shirt on or off. What the ever-loving F?!? That is super weird. I have never ever heard an American talk like that about Vladimir Putin.

She also seems to have intentionally waited to reveal her charge at the time to cause maximum damage not only to Biden but also to the Democratic party's chances in the 2020 election; in other words, the time that maximizes how much it helps Trump (and Putin?). She has also repeatedly changed her story, not just in the sense of revealing more info over time (which is common and understandable for assault/harassment survivors) but also in terms of changing important details like, when/why did she leave Biden's campaign job, what did he do to her, when/how did he do it, how did she react, whom did she tell, etc. Several people have come forward to corroborate parts of her story, but it sounds like most of them are corroborating a much lesser story about general harassment and not outright assault. The corroborators have, too, come out in some cases to change their stories later in odd ways after being questioned or criticized.

The whole thing seems really odd to me. I think in a situation like this where there is really no clear evidence either way, and the case comes down to he-said, she-said, one ought to generally side with the accused and assume innocence until proven guilty. I know that I am biased toward Democrats, but I feel the same courtesy should be extended to folks like Kavanaugh or Trump, unless there are a lot of facts and details on the accuser's side.

I think I've said this before, but when it came to Kavanaugh, I wanted him to step aside not so much because of the allegation against him, but because of the hot-headed and unprofessional way he conducted himself during the confirmation hearing. As for Trump, there are about 28+ women accusing him, many of whom have literal evidence such as E. Jean Carroll's dress that allegedly has Trump's DNA on it.

I will also admit that even if the allegation turns out to be partly true, I would still rather have Biden as President than Trump. But hopefully the allegation is not true, and hopefully if it were to turn out to be wholly true, the Democratic Party would ask Biden to step aside and choose a different nominee.

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Superbone
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Sun May 10, 2020 11:43 am

Nodack wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:32 am
I care if it’s true.
Why? I'm serious. How would it change things? Now you'd vote for Trump? You'd abstain? What? Trump has 10 times the accusations and you don't think any of those are true? One of those two men will be president of the United States in 2021. If it were true, you'd prefer Trump for another 4 years? Or, you'd rather deal with Biden but you wouldn't like him anymore? Besides, what are the chances we'll know the real truth? It's OK for the current president to grab 'em by the pussy but you're not going to vote for Biden if this came out to be absolutely true? How does it change things? I'd seriously like to know.
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ShelC
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by ShelC » Sun May 10, 2020 11:59 am

It's GOP triggering bullshit and Maher is right about the media and the left/Dems eating themselves alive. The timing is more than suspicious, especially when nothing came out while Biden was VP or running against Warren and Bernie. The GOP tried to get something against Hunter Biden to stick and the Dems threatened to go scorched earth against the Trump kids so they dragged this up instead. It's ammunition for the Bernie Bros to use against Biden supporters and makes the Dems look like hypocrites given their #MeToo high ground. Complete non-story as far as I'm concerned and I don't even care about or generally support Biden.

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Superbone
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Sun May 10, 2020 1:00 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:59 am
It's GOP triggering bullshit and Maher is right about the media and the left/Dems eating themselves alive. The timing is more than suspicious, especially when nothing came out while Biden was VP or running against Warren and Bernie. The GOP tried to get something against Hunter Biden to stick and the Dems threatened to go scorched earth against the Trump kids so they dragged this up instead. It's ammunition for the Bernie Bros to use against Biden supporters and makes the Dems look like hypocrites given their #MeToo high ground. Complete non-story as far as I'm concerned and I don't even care about or generally support Biden.
Exactly. I would not be surprised if Reade is getting paid under the table by Republican interests to come forward now.
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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Mon May 11, 2020 10:19 am

Superbone wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:43 am
Nodack wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:32 am
I care if it’s true.
Why? I'm serious. How would it change things? Now you'd vote for Trump? You'd abstain? What? Trump has 10 times the accusations and you don't think any of those are true? One of those two men will be president of the United States in 2021. If it were true, you'd prefer Trump for another 4 years? Or, you'd rather deal with Biden but you wouldn't like him anymore? Besides, what are the chances we'll know the real truth? It's OK for the current president to grab 'em by the pussy but you're not going to vote for Biden if this came out to be absolutely true? How does it change things? I'd seriously like to know.
I care if Biden molested that woman. It has nothing to do with Trump or how much worse Trump is. It’s not a sexual predator competition. I think Democrats care if their candidate is a sexual predator and Republicans are using it against them. Democrats tried it against Trump with his dozens of sexual assault accusations but, Republicans have proven over and over that they clearly don‘t care what horrible things Trump does and that is one of the differences between the two party’s. Many of you think that the Dems having a conscience and morals is what holds the Democrats back and maybe it’s true. Maybe they should be just like the Republicans and start playing dirty to win like they do. Then they would be just like Republicans. Is that what we want? You can’t shame Republicans into voting against Trump. In Magabillyland everything Trump says is the truth and everyone else is lying. The Dems are the evil Socialists who hate America and are trying to stage an illegal coup to oust their leader. How do you counter that? You don’t.

I will no doubt vote for Biden over Trump because Trump is Satan to me. Tara’s story has a lot of holes and inconsistencies and she bragged about her timing of the release of her story to do as much harm as possible. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was paid by some faction of the GOP. That being said, I do care if Biden assaulted that women. I have my doubts whether he did what she said. Something clearly happened at some point that caused her to quit or be fired. I care if he used his influence to get his son a lucrative job. That hasn’t been proven either. Biden is old and losing his mental capacity. That bothers me as well. Still, Biden gets my vote over Trump. An old mangy three legged dog with rabies would be a better President than Trump and get my vote if that was my choice. Still, I care if Biden forced himself on her. If her story is true, he forced himself on her thinking she was into him and she said no and he stopped.

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Superbone
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Mon May 11, 2020 12:16 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:19 am
Superbone wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:43 am
Nodack wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:32 am
I care if it’s true.
Why? I'm serious. How would it change things? Now you'd vote for Trump? You'd abstain? What? Trump has 10 times the accusations and you don't think any of those are true? One of those two men will be president of the United States in 2021. If it were true, you'd prefer Trump for another 4 years? Or, you'd rather deal with Biden but you wouldn't like him anymore? Besides, what are the chances we'll know the real truth? It's OK for the current president to grab 'em by the pussy but you're not going to vote for Biden if this came out to be absolutely true? How does it change things? I'd seriously like to know.
I care if Biden molested that woman. It has nothing to do with Trump or how much worse Trump is. It’s not a sexual predator competition. I think Democrats care if their candidate is a sexual predator and Republicans are using it against them. Democrats tried it against Trump with his dozens of sexual assault accusations but, Republicans have proven over and over that they clearly don‘t care what horrible things Trump does and that is one of the differences between the two party’s. Many of you think that the Dems having a conscience and morals is what holds the Democrats back and maybe it’s true. Maybe they should be just like the Republicans and start playing dirty to win like they do. Then they would be just like Republicans. Is that what we want? You can’t shame Republicans into voting against Trump. In Magabillyland everything Trump says is the truth and everyone else is lying. The Dems are the evil Socialists who hate America and are trying to stage an illegal coup to oust their leader. How do you counter that? You don’t.

I will no doubt vote for Biden over Trump because Trump is Satan to me. Tara’s story has a lot of holes and inconsistencies and she bragged about her timing of the release of her story to do as much harm as possible. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was paid by some faction of the GOP. That being said, I do care if Biden assaulted that women. I have my doubts whether he did what she said. Something clearly happened at some point that caused her to quit or be fired. I care if he used his influence to get his son a lucrative job. That hasn’t been proven either. Biden is old and losing his mental capacity. That bothers me as well. Still, Biden gets my vote over Trump. An old mangy three legged dog with rabies would be a better President than Trump and get my vote if that was my choice. Still, I care if Biden forced himself on her. If her story is true, he forced himself on her thinking she was into him and she said no and he stopped.
It's good to care but it's not going to affect your vote. Mine either.
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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Mon May 11, 2020 1:01 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:19 am
Superbone wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:43 am
Nodack wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:32 am
I care if it’s true.
Why? I'm serious. How would it change things? Now you'd vote for Trump? You'd abstain? What? Trump has 10 times the accusations and you don't think any of those are true? One of those two men will be president of the United States in 2021. If it were true, you'd prefer Trump for another 4 years? Or, you'd rather deal with Biden but you wouldn't like him anymore? Besides, what are the chances we'll know the real truth? It's OK for the current president to grab 'em by the pussy but you're not going to vote for Biden if this came out to be absolutely true? How does it change things? I'd seriously like to know.
I care if Biden molested that woman. It has nothing to do with Trump or how much worse Trump is. It’s not a sexual predator competition. I think Democrats care if their candidate is a sexual predator and Republicans are using it against them. Democrats tried it against Trump with his dozens of sexual assault accusations but, Republicans have proven over and over that they clearly don‘t care what horrible things Trump does and that is one of the differences between the two party’s. Many of you think that the Dems having a conscience and morals is what holds the Democrats back and maybe it’s true. Maybe they should be just like the Republicans and start playing dirty to win like they do. Then they would be just like Republicans. Is that what we want? You can’t shame Republicans into voting against Trump. In Magabillyland everything Trump says is the truth and everyone else is lying. The Dems are the evil Socialists who hate America and are trying to stage an illegal coup to oust their leader. How do you counter that? You don’t.

I will no doubt vote for Biden over Trump because Trump is Satan to me. Tara’s story has a lot of holes and inconsistencies and she bragged about her timing of the release of her story to do as much harm as possible. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was paid by some faction of the GOP. That being said, I do care if Biden assaulted that women. I have my doubts whether he did what she said. Something clearly happened at some point that caused her to quit or be fired. I care if he used his influence to get his son a lucrative job. That hasn’t been proven either. Biden is old and losing his mental capacity. That bothers me as well. Still, Biden gets my vote over Trump. An old mangy three legged dog with rabies would be a better President than Trump and get my vote if that was my choice. Still, I care if Biden forced himself on her. If her story is true, he forced himself on her thinking she was into him and she said no and he stopped.
all of this

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Mon May 11, 2020 3:41 pm

Good post, 'dack. I feel pretty similarly. I care about whether Biden did it. But we probably aren't ever going to know for sure. I will vote for Biden over Trump unless Joe commits murder on national television or something of that nature. Trump must be stopped.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Mori Chu » Mon May 11, 2020 3:41 pm

Seeing the disgraceful dismissal of the Flynn case, I again feel like law and order and democracy themselves are on the ballot in 2020. If Trump wins reelection, I honestly think that will be the end of our country as we know it. We will slide into a corrupt kleptocratic autocracy and may never recover.

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Superbone
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Mon May 11, 2020 4:02 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 3:41 pm
Good post, 'dack. I feel pretty similarly. I care about whether Biden did it. But we probably aren't ever going to know for sure. I will vote for Biden over Trump unless Joe commits murder on national television or something of that nature. Trump must be stopped.
I would need some details on the murder. Even then, I wouldn't vote for Trump.
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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Mon May 11, 2020 4:11 pm

This Wikipedia article on the story is very comprehensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden ... allegation

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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon May 11, 2020 6:50 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:19 am
I think the Reade backstory is pretty murky and confusing. I find her social media posts about Putin to be really repellent. She openly gushes about what a great and inspiring and beloved leader he is, and how he's so manly and strong and sexy, and how he is irresistible to women, and she loves him with his shirt on or off. What the ever-loving F?!? That is super weird. I have never ever heard an American talk like that about Vladimir Putin.
This is the smoking gun, IMO.

My gut tells me that Biden has done some creepy-guy-in-power stuff in the past, but this story in particular has too many holes.
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