Democratic primary watch

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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:00 am

Cap wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:20 pm
Nodack wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:56 pm
I am ready for new blood all around. = Nice way of saying I don't want a privileged millionaire white guy in their 80s representing me.
If the privileged millionaire white guy has political sensibilities like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, I won’t hold his wealth and skin color against him.
I understand your point, but...

It isn't his skin color or wealth that I am holding against him. It is his extremely narrow view of the world those things give him, that in now way aligns with the experiences of 300,000,000 other people in this country.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:03 am

Biden seems to be one of those politicians who is happy to give a speech for some big donor group and be paid $300,000 for the work. Hillary was also like that. I hate that sort of thing. It is pretty nakedly corrupt to me and makes the candidate/politician beholden to those special interest groups. IMO that sort of thing should be illegal. This all comes back to laws like Citizens United. I don't think big companies or lobbyists or billionaires should be allowed to give huge donations and checks to politicians or campaigns.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:38 pm

The old privileged millionaire white guy is more likely out of touch with the average American and imo likely has less empathy for most of the people he is supposed to be taking care of. A politician who has been in Washington a long time knows a lot about Washington and the inner workings which can be a good thing and a bad thing. That guy is more likely to be getting paid under the table by some lobbyist.

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Cap
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Cap » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:29 am

Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:00 am
Cap wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:20 pm
Nodack wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:56 pm
I am ready for new blood all around. = Nice way of saying I don't want a privileged millionaire white guy in their 80s representing me.
If the privileged millionaire white guy has political sensibilities like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, I won’t hold his wealth and skin color against him.
I understand your point, but...

It isn't his skin color or wealth that I am holding against him. It is his extremely narrow view of the world those things give him, that in now way aligns with the experiences of 300,000,000 other people in this country.
You don’t have to have cancer to be an oncologist, and it may be better to have someone who knows his experiences are atypical than to have someone who thinks he can extrapolate from “self” to “normal.”
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:12 pm



Kamala Harris gave her kick-off speech today in Oakland. I love her; think she'd be a great President. I am really rooting for either her or Warren.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:55 pm

I did watch some Warren and I like what she says. I just see her as my aunt or something. Harris comes across as more Presidential to me for some strange reason. She has been one of the main Democrats standing up to Trump since he was elected. I wonder what dark secrets she has in her past they will dig up.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:34 pm

Nodack wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:55 pm
I did watch some Warren and I like what she says. I just see her as my aunt or something. Harris comes across as more Presidential to me for some strange reason. She has been one of the main Democrats standing up to Trump since he was elected. I wonder what dark secrets she has in her past they will dig up.
I think they're going through her record as a prosecuting attorney looking for cases to attack her with. For example, they may attack her if they find that she took or didn't take a case where she was on the wrong side of a controversial issue. I have seen a few such accusations on Twitter but didn't think any of them had a lot of merit. If Harris becomes the Dem front-runner I'd expect such attacks to intensify.

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ShelC
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by ShelC » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:39 pm

It's amazing they'll go thru and pick apart everyone's history but Trump gets a pass on everything from the right. I keep trying to figure out why but it's beyond me.

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In2ition
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:30 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:39 pm
It's amazing they'll go thru and pick apart everyone's history but Trump gets a pass on everything from the right. I keep trying to figure out why but it's beyond me.
There are plenty of"Never Trumper's". You must not look very far at all. Besides, it wouldn't matter who the Reps nominate, the Dems will go thru and pick them apart for anything. Seems weird to complain about this when it's standard operating procedure for either side.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:12 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:39 pm
It's amazing they'll go thru and pick apart everyone's history but Trump gets a pass on everything from the right. I keep trying to figure out why but it's beyond me.
I think it speaks to the strength of parties and partisanship. We want to cheer for our team/player against the enemy. I also think frankly it helps that the GOP has its own TV network that will broadcast a positive message about their party regardless of current events, and that their party's voters somewhat uniformly tune in to watch that network. The Democrats don't have anything remotely close (nor would I want them to; frankly it's propaganda).

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In2ition
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:12 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:39 pm
It's amazing they'll go thru and pick apart everyone's history but Trump gets a pass on everything from the right. I keep trying to figure out why but it's beyond me.
I think it speaks to the strength of parties and partisanship. We want to cheer for our team/player against the enemy. I also think frankly it helps that the GOP has its own TV network that will broadcast a positive message about their party regardless of current events, and that their party's voters somewhat uniformly tune in to watch that network. The Democrats don't have anything remotely close (nor would I want them to; frankly it's propaganda).
It could be argued that all networks outside of Fox News is a Dem propaganda network. Just about every newspaper too.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

Possibilities at 32:
Isaiah Roby, Darius Bazely, Ty Jerome, Mfiondu Kabengele, Daniel Gafford, Dylan Windler, Chuma Okeke, Carson Edwards, Arturs Zagars

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:08 am

Right, it's a vast conspiracy. The entire world is against you. Do you know how preposterous that sounds?

I will concede to you that MSNBC is openly partisan toward the Democrats; I do not ever watch it for that reason. And CNN has crept slowly but steadily in that direction and is now essentially infotainment like Fox. I would argue that CNN and MSNBC are not quite as devoid of fact as Fox, due to the fact that Democrats delight in criticizing their own. But both channels are not reliable for nonpartisan news content any more. However, the majority of the media is much more measured and factual than MSNBC or CNN. To claim otherwise strains credibility.

It makes me sad that Fox and other right-wing media have so successfully pushed their "left-wing media conspiracy" story and have managed to convince their otherwise intelligent viewers of it.

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In2ition
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:03 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:08 am
Right, it's a vast conspiracy. The entire world is against you. Do you know how preposterous that sounds?

I will concede to you that MSNBC is openly partisan toward the Democrats; I do not ever watch it for that reason. And CNN has crept slowly but steadily in that direction and is now essentially infotainment like Fox. I would argue that CNN and MSNBC are not quite as devoid of fact as Fox, due to the fact that Democrats delight in criticizing their own. But both channels are not reliable for nonpartisan news content any more. However, the majority of the media is much more measured and factual than MSNBC or CNN. To claim otherwise strains credibility.

It makes me sad that Fox and other right-wing media have so successfully pushed their "left-wing media conspiracy" story and have managed to convince their otherwise intelligent viewers of it.
That's exactly what you're saying for the left, which is my point. "Oh gawd, the Dems have no media that speaks up for them and against the Reps like Fox." This is bonkers, Marty. Just because you are a Dem, you are not a victim. Just stop. We can agree on many things, and disagree on many things, and it's fine. CNN and MSNBC are quick to judge against the GOP and in favor of the Dems all the time and unceasingly. Just look at how the Covington thing was reported. Immediately many, including yourself was full wanted to burn those kids at the stake. It's crazy town.

I don't watch Fox News, so you watching it at your parents' or in-laws house is more than I get. Although I lean conservative for a lot of things, I read every story you post "all the way through", and do my best to sift through each story. I look at the left and the right, and it's pretty clear there is a bias on both sides. Your claim that CNN and MSNBC are "not quite as devoid of fact as Fox" is only because you tend to believe nearly every cockamamie theory they throw out there, that is slipped to them by the Dems. You hear the talking points put out by the Dems each day repeated by the talking heads of these networks. Perhaps you are little to close to this, and need to take a step back to get a little perspective. I don't recall ever seeing you put something out there against the Dems, as if you are going to get your membership revoked if you even contemplate it. Part of the problem is that there are only 2 real parties.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

Possibilities at 32:
Isaiah Roby, Darius Bazely, Ty Jerome, Mfiondu Kabengele, Daniel Gafford, Dylan Windler, Chuma Okeke, Carson Edwards, Arturs Zagars

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:36 pm

I have no doubt FOX is the official GOP mouthpiece and no doubt that MSNBC and CNN are pro Democrat and will be labeled the official mouthpiece for the Dems. I lean left so when I watch FOX it irritates me how much they slant the news to fit their view they want to project. “A caravan of 5,000 blood thirsty migrants are coming to invade America spread drugs, rape and murder to our country unless we build a wall pronto!”

I sometimes watch CNN and their obvious hatred for Trump can be a little over the top and it just seems like round tables filled with anti Trump people telling us how much they dislike Trump. I like MSNBC more because they paint a picture with evidence and not just opinion. “Here is Trump today saying this after Pence just said this and the Dems responded by doing this. No doubt the are pro Democrat but, I don’t see them telling lies and spreading fake news stories. They slant their news just like FOX to fit their narrative. I just happen to agree with their narrative most of the time.

Fake News? There is fake news but not on MSNBC and CNN IMO. Trump calls it fake news because he doesn’t like what they are saying and doesn’t want his followers watching it so, everything is fake. When MSNBC reports Trump people being arrested, they are being arrested.

Trump supporters think the Russian thing is a complete witch hunt. I have done a LOT of research on this subject and I can say IMO it isn’t a witch hunt. I don’t believe the FBI, DOJ, Intelligence community is filled with Hillary supporters who all conspire to get Trump to help Hillary. They are investigating Trump over Russia because he acts and does things that only a Russian puppet would do. Trumps entire election team had close ties to Russia and several have been arrested. It was like Putin hand picked his staff. That’s not made up stuff. That’s fact. If the articles and documentaries are true Trump has been working for Russia since the 1980’s. They financed his golf courses and they launder money through his Trump Towers and Trump is very aware of it. If the FBI is competent they will be all over this.

I believe Trump is a cancer and never tells the truth. I don’t need CNN and MSNBC to see this. He talks all day every day all by himself on Twitter and makes up wild crazy conspiracy theories and says the craziest things trying to defelct from his screwups. I think he is an amoral narcissistic serial lying racist sexual predator ego maniac draft dodging tax evading Russian puppet con man crimminal traitor without morals, honor, ethics, decency or empathy. I think he is a horrible human being who doesn’t care who he hurts as long as he wins. He doesn’t represent America. He represents his base only and considers everybody else the evil enemy that needs to be destroyed at all costs.

Not fake media, fake president.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:32 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:36 pm
Trump supporters think the Russian thing is a complete witch hunt. I have done a LOT of research on this subject and I can say IMO it isn’t a witch hunt. I don’t believe the FBI, DOJ, Intelligence community is filled with Hillary supporters who all conspire to get Trump to help Hillary. They are investigating Trump over Russia because he acts and does things that only a Russian puppet would do. Trumps entire election team had close ties to Russia and several have been arrested. It was like Putin hand picked his staff. That’s not made up stuff. That’s fact. If the articles and documentaries are true Trump has been working for Russia since the 1980’s. They financed his golf courses and they launder money through his Trump Towers and Trump is very aware of it. If the FBI is competent they will be all over this.

I believe Trump is a cancer and never tells the truth. I don’t need CNN and MSNBC to see this. He talks all day every day all by himself on Twitter and makes up wild crazy conspiracy theories and says the craziest things trying to defelct from his screwups. I think he is an amoral narcissistic serial lying racist sexual predator ego maniac draft dodging tax evading Russian puppet con man crimminal traitor without morals, honor, ethics, decency or empathy. I think he is a horrible human being who doesn’t care who he hurts as long as he wins. He doesn’t represent America. He represents his base only and considers everybody else the evil enemy that needs to be destroyed at all costs.

Not fake media, fake president.
Couldn't have said it any better.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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In2ition
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:44 pm

Not much to dispute Nodack.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

Possibilities at 32:
Isaiah Roby, Darius Bazely, Ty Jerome, Mfiondu Kabengele, Daniel Gafford, Dylan Windler, Chuma Okeke, Carson Edwards, Arturs Zagars

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Cap
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Cap » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:59 am

In2ition wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 pm
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:12 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:39 pm
It's amazing they'll go thru and pick apart everyone's history but Trump gets a pass on everything from the right. I keep trying to figure out why but it's beyond me.
I think it speaks to the strength of parties and partisanship. We want to cheer for our team/player against the enemy. I also think frankly it helps that the GOP has its own TV network that will broadcast a positive message about their party regardless of current events, and that their party's voters somewhat uniformly tune in to watch that network. The Democrats don't have anything remotely close (nor would I want them to; frankly it's propaganda).
It could be argued that all networks outside of Fox News is a Dem propaganda network. Just about every newspaper too.
It could be argued, and generally is by people who are pretty ignorant and have a knee-jerk reaction to anything outside the conservative bubble. Reality is liberally biased and mainstream reporters report it.

Legitimate journalists, fact checkers, scientists, academics, Wikipedia editors, bureaucrats, courts, are all called liberals. Basically, if your job is to evaluate all available information and argument by objective standards in a transparent process, your entire field of endeavor is dismissed as liberally biased, and any information produced by such a process is automatically suspect.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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In2ition
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:54 pm

Cap wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:59 am
In2ition wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 pm
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:12 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:39 pm
It's amazing they'll go thru and pick apart everyone's history but Trump gets a pass on everything from the right. I keep trying to figure out why but it's beyond me.
I think it speaks to the strength of parties and partisanship. We want to cheer for our team/player against the enemy. I also think frankly it helps that the GOP has its own TV network that will broadcast a positive message about their party regardless of current events, and that their party's voters somewhat uniformly tune in to watch that network. The Democrats don't have anything remotely close (nor would I want them to; frankly it's propaganda).
It could be argued that all networks outside of Fox News is a Dem propaganda network. Just about every newspaper too.
It could be argued, and generally is by people who are pretty ignorant and have a knee-jerk reaction to anything outside the conservative bubble. Reality is liberally biased and mainstream reporters report it.

Legitimate journalists, fact checkers, scientists, academics, Wikipedia editors, bureaucrats, courts, are all called liberals. Basically, if your job is to evaluate all available information and argument by objective standards in a transparent process, your entire field of endeavor is dismissed as liberally biased, and any information produced by such a process is automatically suspect.
Interesting.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

Possibilities at 32:
Isaiah Roby, Darius Bazely, Ty Jerome, Mfiondu Kabengele, Daniel Gafford, Dylan Windler, Chuma Okeke, Carson Edwards, Arturs Zagars

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:03 pm

In2ition wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:03 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:08 am
Right, it's a vast conspiracy. The entire world is against you. Do you know how preposterous that sounds?

I will concede to you that MSNBC is openly partisan toward the Democrats; I do not ever watch it for that reason. And CNN has crept slowly but steadily in that direction and is now essentially infotainment like Fox. I would argue that CNN and MSNBC are not quite as devoid of fact as Fox, due to the fact that Democrats delight in criticizing their own. But both channels are not reliable for nonpartisan news content any more. However, the majority of the media is much more measured and factual than MSNBC or CNN. To claim otherwise strains credibility.

It makes me sad that Fox and other right-wing media have so successfully pushed their "left-wing media conspiracy" story and have managed to convince their otherwise intelligent viewers of it.
That's exactly what you're saying for the left, which is my point. "Oh gawd, the Dems have no media that speaks up for them and against the Reps like Fox." This is bonkers, Marty. Just because you are a Dem, you are not a victim. Just stop. We can agree on many things, and disagree on many things, and it's fine. CNN and MSNBC are quick to judge against the GOP and in favor of the Dems all the time and unceasingly. Just look at how the Covington thing was reported. Immediately many, including yourself was full wanted to burn those kids at the stake. It's crazy town.

I don't watch Fox News, so you watching it at your parents' or in-laws house is more than I get. Although I lean conservative for a lot of things, I read every story you post "all the way through", and do my best to sift through each story. I look at the left and the right, and it's pretty clear there is a bias on both sides. Your claim that CNN and MSNBC are "not quite as devoid of fact as Fox" is only because you tend to believe nearly every cockamamie theory they throw out there, that is slipped to them by the Dems. You hear the talking points put out by the Dems each day repeated by the talking heads of these networks. Perhaps you are little to close to this, and need to take a step back to get a little perspective. I don't recall ever seeing you put something out there against the Dems, as if you are going to get your membership revoked if you even contemplate it. Part of the problem is that there are only 2 real parties.
I took a few days off before responding to this post because I found it so repellent. I'm "bonkers"? I want to "burn kids at the stake"? I "believe nearly every cockamamie theory" thrown out by CNN and MSNBC? I am trying not to "get (my) membership revoked if you even contemplate" criticizing the Dems? I don't know if you were pissed off when you wrote this, but I felt you went too far. It was disrespectful. I choose not to debate the factual points you laid out here because of the rude tone. Be better.

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In2ition
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:26 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:03 pm
In2ition wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:03 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:08 am
Right, it's a vast conspiracy. The entire world is against you. Do you know how preposterous that sounds?

I will concede to you that MSNBC is openly partisan toward the Democrats; I do not ever watch it for that reason. And CNN has crept slowly but steadily in that direction and is now essentially infotainment like Fox. I would argue that CNN and MSNBC are not quite as devoid of fact as Fox, due to the fact that Democrats delight in criticizing their own. But both channels are not reliable for nonpartisan news content any more. However, the majority of the media is much more measured and factual than MSNBC or CNN. To claim otherwise strains credibility.

It makes me sad that Fox and other right-wing media have so successfully pushed their "left-wing media conspiracy" story and have managed to convince their otherwise intelligent viewers of it.
That's exactly what you're saying for the left, which is my point. "Oh gawd, the Dems have no media that speaks up for them and against the Reps like Fox." This is bonkers, Marty. Just because you are a Dem, you are not a victim. Just stop. We can agree on many things, and disagree on many things, and it's fine. CNN and MSNBC are quick to judge against the GOP and in favor of the Dems all the time and unceasingly. Just look at how the Covington thing was reported. Immediately many, including yourself was full wanted to burn those kids at the stake. It's crazy town.

I don't watch Fox News, so you watching it at your parents' or in-laws house is more than I get. Although I lean conservative for a lot of things, I read every story you post "all the way through", and do my best to sift through each story. I look at the left and the right, and it's pretty clear there is a bias on both sides. Your claim that CNN and MSNBC are "not quite as devoid of fact as Fox" is only because you tend to believe nearly every cockamamie theory they throw out there, that is slipped to them by the Dems. You hear the talking points put out by the Dems each day repeated by the talking heads of these networks. Perhaps you are little to close to this, and need to take a step back to get a little perspective. I don't recall ever seeing you put something out there against the Dems, as if you are going to get your membership revoked if you even contemplate it. Part of the problem is that there are only 2 real parties.
I took a few days off before responding to this post because I found it so repellent. I'm "bonkers"? I want to "burn kids at the stake"? I "believe nearly every cockamamie theory" thrown out by CNN and MSNBC? I am trying not to "get (my) membership revoked if you even contemplate" criticizing the Dems? I don't know if you were pissed off when you wrote this, but I felt you went too far. It was disrespectful. I choose not to debate the factual points you laid out here because of the rude tone. Be better.
I wasn't upset at all when I responded, and I'm not now either. It was a bit in jest, but it was wildly surprised by your answer, and now even more. I thought we had a decent relationship where you are welcomed to call out my bs and I could do the same. I like you Msrty, I think of you as a peer. You have a different POV than I do and certainly a more left bent. That's completely fine with me. I enjoy listening to your opinions and enjoy the political forum even though someone with conservative leanings can feel quite out numbered and ganged up on. I feel like perhaps you see me as something like a student that can be chided for tone? Ok, that's a bit odd to me. I'm sorry you were so offended that you needed to take a couple days off. I certainly don't mean any offense to you or anyone here. Not everyone likes me(like everyone), but those are pretty far and few between. I've met both Cap and Nodak, both good guys. Perhaps they didn't particularly like me, but I would think they would call me entirely harmless.

I didn't call you "bonkers", just the line of thinking. "Burn kids at the stake" was a figure of speech about your immediate reaction to it. The believe every theory was an exaggeration. The "take away your membership" was in jest of never recall seeing a criticism of the Dems.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

Possibilities at 32:
Isaiah Roby, Darius Bazely, Ty Jerome, Mfiondu Kabengele, Daniel Gafford, Dylan Windler, Chuma Okeke, Carson Edwards, Arturs Zagars

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