Impeachment

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:40 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:27 am
3rdside wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:13 am
Avenatti may be right, that to beat Trump you need the same gutter tactics - and a mega advertising budget - so maybe Bloomberg's the guy.
I see the argument for such tactics, but ultimately I think it's a bad idea. The thing you don't want to do is get independent voters thinking, "They're all the same," or, "The Dems are just as lewd and rude and awful as Trump." You call Trump out for his awfulness and run on a different vision for the future of the country, not devolving to become just like him.

I agree. I want to vote for the party that represents good, not evil. Becoming evil just to compete with evil just makes you evil too, then what’s the point?

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3rdside
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Re: Impeachment

Post by 3rdside » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:33 am

virtual9mm wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:26 am
3rdside wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:13 am
Reading an article about Michael Bloomberg who's just bombed Trump : "fake hair, obese and spray on tan".

His adviser too: "all that's inside his head is a putter, cheeseburgers, a porn video and somebody else's credit card".

Avenatti may be right, that to beat Trump you need the same gutter tactics - and a mega advertising budget - so maybe Bloomberg's the guy.
It was interesting to see Trump gear up to fight...not Biden...but rather, Bloomberg.

What I do respect about the guy is that he's committed to funding anti-Trump ads regardless who comes out of the primary.

Regarding Brexit -- I don't think that this is the end -- I think that the UK will end up losing Scotland and Northern Ireland, too. Down to Little England and Wales.
Watching Brexit unfold has been a tragedy, and all signs are pointing to Scottish independence and Irish reunification, unheard of even as recently as a couple years ago.

United Kingdom or Great Britain is looking odds on to become Little England.

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3rdside
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Re: Impeachment

Post by 3rdside » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:17 am

Nodack wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:40 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:27 am
3rdside wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:13 am
Avenatti may be right, that to beat Trump you need the same gutter tactics - and a mega advertising budget - so maybe Bloomberg's the guy.
I see the argument for such tactics, but ultimately I think it's a bad idea. The thing you don't want to do is get independent voters thinking, "They're all the same," or, "The Dems are just as lewd and rude and awful as Trump." You call Trump out for his awfulness and run on a different vision for the future of the country, not devolving to become just like him.

I agree. I want to vote for the party that represents good, not evil. Becoming evil just to compete with evil just makes you evil too, then what’s the point?
Agree also - it's just frustrating as always to see the D's try to be the good guys but a mistake here or there and they're made out to be hypocrites and just as bad as the R's, who revel in doing bad things and getting away with it, so a bit of bite in return might not go astray if used properly.

Which leads to the second takeaway from the UK general election if the Dems want to win:

Sacrifice personal / factional ambition and come up with a collective plan to do it - if that means Bloomberg is the personal-insult aggressor from one angle but doesn't get the nomination then so be it.

Or Warren is strictly the anti-trump facts lady from another angle and likewise doesn't get the nomination then so be it also.

Just don't fight each other.

The Conservatives strategy over here revolved around an impossibly over-simplified 3 word slogan "Get Brexit Done" and expecting the opposition to be unable to come together, which is exactly what happened.





(Without going into it too much, a combination of hubris, narcissism, pig-headedness, ignorance and stupidity from the opposition saw Johnson to the biggest parliamentary majority since the 1930's - like the slowest motion car crash ever that could easily been avoided)

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:42 am

Trump is at his highest approval ratings ever on a new Gallup poll. Totally exonerated and smelling like a rose...again. The new Trump with new powers, completely unstoppable and not subject to any laws.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:36 pm

That Gallup poll is a real outlier compared to most recent polling about Trump. They are a good pollster, but I want to wait for more data before concluding Trump has somehow surged in popularity.

At this moment we still don't have any results from the Iowa caucus...

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Indy
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:38 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:27 am
3rdside wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:13 am
Avenatti may be right, that to beat Trump you need the same gutter tactics - and a mega advertising budget - so maybe Bloomberg's the guy.
I see the argument for such tactics, but ultimately I think it's a bad idea. The thing you don't want to do is get independent voters thinking, "They're all the same," or, "The Dems are just as lewd and rude and awful as Trump." You call Trump out for his awfulness and run on a different vision for the future of the country, not devolving to become just like him.
There are really only like 3-4% of people that are "independent" voters, and they already think that. The key will be getting people excited enough to come out and vote. That could be because their favorite candidate has a chance to win and they love them, or the other candidate has a chance to lose and they HATE them. There isn't much middle ground there. Maybe Bloomberg campaigning against Trump instead of for himself while supporting some other nominee would be best.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:07 pm

ROMNEY!

There is ONE Republican with a conscience!

I just watched Romney bear his soul and tell America that he is voting to impeach Trump because Trump did everything the Dems said he did and his profound belief in his God wouldn’t allow him in good conscience to acquit Trump .


https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481 ... vict-trump

“The grave question the Constitution tasks senators to answer is whether the president committed an act so extreme and egregious that it rises to the level of a high crime and misdemeanor. Yes, he did,” Romney said in remarks on the Senate floor.

The president is guilty of an appalling abuse of public trust. What he did was not perfect. No, it was a flagrant assault of our electoral rights, our national security and our fundamental values,” he said.“

Romney appeared to choke up as he stood for a long moment before delivering his verdict. He acknowledged it was a very difficult decision.

“I swore an oath before God to exercise impartial justice. I am profoundly religious. My faith is at the heart of who I am. I take an oath before God as enormously consequential,” he said.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:01 am

Now I'm reading that Trump is having Lt Colonel Vindman reassigned and/or fired for daring to testify against him. Great. Vengeance and retribution by the dictator in chief.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/politics ... index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/us/p ... e=Homepage

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Indy
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:03 pm

snitches get stitches, even if they are trying to save our republic it seems.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:03 am

Sondland got his walking papers today too.

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virtual9mm
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Re: Impeachment

Post by virtual9mm » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:11 pm

I'm so depressed about this entire thing that I'm close to switching off even though I know what's at stake. The Republicans are going full-on Turkey under Erdogan and the Democrats seem to be doing the same shit that the Weimar liberals did that got Hitler into office without a majority.

Dunno if Bernie can pull this shit off or if Buttigieg can team up with Kamala Harris or some other minority candidate. But it's looking dark, dark indeed. At least the Mormons (Flake, Romney) seem to have a conscience.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:41 am

I've honestly looked into jobs and citizenship in other countries. If Trump monkeys with the election and wins in 2020, our democracy is lost. I would honestly not want to live in an authoritarian regime and would want to seek refuge elsewhere.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:46 pm

It’s our country too. Too many fought and died trying protect this country to just let some asshole ruin it and us just run away.

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virtual9mm
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Re: Impeachment

Post by virtual9mm » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:43 am

I am in place in Hong Kong for now and plan on staying here until it becomes clear which way the US is headed. But it doesn't mean that I disagree with Nodack.

What this means I do not know...I have had too many conversations with folks from Yugoslavia and Syria to think that resistance will be a simple affair. The cure may be worse than the disease - something we found out in Hong Kong just recently.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:17 am

This isn’t Syria or Hong Kong. This is the US. Apples and Oranges. I believe the pendulum will swing back like it always does. I don’t believe Trump will be allowed to stay in office as long as he wants. I don’t believe Americans will allow Republicans to make Trump a King for life. The economy will turn like it always does at some point and that will be the end of Trumps Presidency. You can only con people for so long. He has survived off a good economy.

Mexico didn’t pay for the wall. Congress wouldn’t give him the money so, he stole it from the military.

Obamacare wasn’t repealed or replaced. Trump just neutered it as much as he could.

The deficit wasn’t zeroed out like he promised. It has continued to skyrocket and not a single Republican has said a word.

Trump promised to end the violence in inner cities. All he has done is insult those cities.

Wages for the poor have risen slightly. States also passed minimum wage increases, not Trump.

His tariff wars haven’t helped anyone. We spent billions bailing out corporate farmers and not the little guys.

Trump is a salesman con man with extensive tv experience. He knows how to play people but, he is a dumbazz too and can’t help F’ing up everything he touches. Six bankruptcies say the wheels will come off this train big time at some point.

I am not moving. If it comes down to it I will march in the streets with the millions who will be marching at some point.

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Indy
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:33 am

His tariff wars haven’t helped anyone. We spent billions bailing out corporate farmers and not the little guys.
Those helped the farmers in the mid-west a lot. I have several of them in my family, and even the honest ones that aren't strongly in favor or against Trump have said they are better off. The amount of money we are paying farmers due to the colossal screw ups on trade negotiations is way under the radar right now. He is basically buying votes from those states that have more voting power per person.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:26 pm

The tariff war didn’t help them. Trump bailing them out after the tariff war hurt them helped them. I bet all they see is Trump helped them and don’t acknowledge the circumstances that forced Trump to bail them out with our tax dollars. Democrats say bailouts are Socialism and Republicans aren’t supposed to like Socialism.

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Indy
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:44 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:26 pm
The tariff war didn’t help them. Trump bailing them out after the tariff war hurt them helped them. I bet all they see is Trump helped them and don’t acknowledge the circumstances that forced Trump to bail them out with our tax dollars. Democrats say bailouts are Socialism and Republicans aren’t supposed to like Socialism.
The second part. In the end, they file their taxes and look at the earnings and see they are better off. They don't care as much about how the sausage is made, if it turns out great in the end. I think that goes for 95% of the public, too. If they are doing well, they keep the current admin. That goes for local, state, and federal.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:02 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:17 am
This isn’t Syria or Hong Kong. This is the US. Apples and Oranges. I believe the pendulum will swing back like it always does. I don’t believe Trump will be allowed to stay in office as long as he wants. I don’t believe Americans will allow Republicans to make Trump a King for life. The economy will turn like it always does at some point and that will be the end of Trumps Presidency. You can only con people for so long. He has survived off a good economy.
The thing I worry about is, we have already seen ample evidence that the GOP is happy and willing to discard laws and norms to retain power and protect the crook at the top. How will we go back to sensible governance after this? What will restrain other leaders now that we've seen that it's just fine to completely disregard the law?

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ShelC
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Re: Impeachment

Post by ShelC » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:15 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:02 pm
Nodack wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:17 am
This isn’t Syria or Hong Kong. This is the US. Apples and Oranges. I believe the pendulum will swing back like it always does. I don’t believe Trump will be allowed to stay in office as long as he wants. I don’t believe Americans will allow Republicans to make Trump a King for life. The economy will turn like it always does at some point and that will be the end of Trumps Presidency. You can only con people for so long. He has survived off a good economy.
The thing I worry about is, we have already seen ample evidence that the GOP is happy and willing to discard laws and norms to retain power and protect the crook at the top. How will we go back to sensible governance after this? What will restrain other leaders now that we've seen that it's just fine to completely disregard the law?
Absolutely nothing. I don't think he does any of the debates and at this point, I wouldn't even be surprised if he tried to call off the election. And IF he loses, what's stopping him from saying there was interference or election fraud and staying in office "until we figure out just what the hell is going on" and having the GOP and half the country backing him up. Don't put it past him to incite his followers, advocate for violence, declare martial law. Anything is on the table as far as I'm concerned.

And the Dems will just pass a resolution condemning all of it.

There's no pendulum to swing because one side has the power so why give it up?

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