Impeachment

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2270
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:25 pm

I agree. Trumps ego is massive and he really hates being the butt of jokes. Somebody could really push his buttons and have him go over the edge.

At the same time I am sick of the pettiness going on and if it just turned into a mudslinging contest I would be even more disgusted by the whole thing.

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 4830
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by ShelC » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:56 am

That's why it would have to be the right candidate with the right delivery who can do that but also be the "adult" in the campaign and still get a legit, sincere message across.

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9909
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:32 am

If you want that, the closest actual candidate to that is Kamala Harris. She's a strong debater and would go right at Trump with barbs and jabs. Not childish insults, but she would challenge him and get into it.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 14946
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:16 am

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:40 am
I stopped by my mothers house and she and I got into politics. She is a Trump fan. She is on his mailing list. They send her crap all the time asking for money. She only watches FOX News. She forbade me to vote. She believes everything Trump says.

“Hillary and Obama murdered people!”

“If a Democrat is elected we will all end up in soup lines.”

“Democrats are all socialists and want to destroy our country!”

“They are going to try to take away my Social Security.”

I showed her my dozens of links to articles showing her my point of view. She immediately brushed them all off as fake. Trump owns my mother. I told her I think he is evil and can’t wait to vote against him. So sad.
"She forbade me to vote." Huh? What does that mean? She understands how the democratic process works, right?

My mom on the other hand spent 4 hours the night Trump was elected looking into Canadian citizenship. They won't take you if you're over 70, she tells me.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 14946
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:20 am

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:17 pm
I can’t get my mother to watch anything else except FOX News. I think I will attempt to get her to at least watch the debate tonight.

I am not so sure they need to pick somebody to out bully Trump to win and I hope that breaking all the rules at some point has negative consequences. The Dem can’t be a pushover but I would appreciate a person of high character that I can believe in. I think some Americans are shocked by the erosion of ethics and morality going on and would also be attracted to someone of higher moral fiber.
I spent some time with my mom recently and she fast forwards the news every time Trump appears until he's gone. It's a little frustrating as I want to keep abreast of what he's up to. Keep your enemies closer and all that...
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 14946
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:24 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:32 am
If you want that, the closest actual candidate to that is Kamala Harris. She's a strong debater and would go right at Trump with barbs and jabs. Not childish insults, but she would challenge him and get into it.
Exactly what I was thinking. She matches Shel's description well. Her food fight comment last night was great and she put all the candidates in their place.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2270
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:25 am

I like her too. She is all business.

Nobody liked Gabbard but me? I know she is a complete unknown and has almost zero chance at this point but, that’s what the debates are for. I guess she was on Bill Maher last night. Even if these people don’t get elected, they are getting air time on the national stage. Some of these people can end up in key positions later on because of their showing.


User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 14946
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:47 am

I liked her too. I wasn't familiar with her and she came out of nowhere for me.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

JJ Slim
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by JJ Slim » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:28 pm

I'm surprised you guys don't know about Tulsi Gabbard. She is a former vice chair of the DNC, congresswoman from Hawaii and a veteran that served in Iraq. She has extensive knowledge about foreign affairs and was an early supporter of Bernie Sanders in 2016. That's just off the top of my head. I don't always agree with everything she says but she is a very smart, well articulated person.

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 2273
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Impeachment

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:03 pm

JJ Slim wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:28 pm
I'm surprised you guys don't know about Tulsi Gabbard. She is a former vice chair of the DNC, congresswoman from Hawaii and a veteran that served in Iraq. She has extensive knowledge about foreign affairs and was an early supporter of Bernie Sanders in 2016. That's just off the top of my head. I don't always agree with everything she says but she is a very smart, well articulated person.
Well that disqualifies her in the mind of a large percentage of the country, not to mention she's a female "socialist".
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2270
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:04 am

All the Dem candidates are called Socialists no matter what they believe.

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9909
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:17 am

There are some good things about Gabbard, but I have some issues with her and would not support her as the nominee overall. If I could sum up what I find objectionable about her, I would say that I think she is / has been discriminatory toward several groups of people including LGBT and Muslims, and that she doesn't play nice with the Democratic Party and too often openly defies them and does disruptive things that undermine their interests. Here are some bad things I've read about her from various reputable outlets:

- She has made some anti-LGBT comments and actions in the past. She worked with Alliance for Traditional Marriage to try to block gay marriage. She once said, "As Democrats we should be representing the views of the people, not a small number of homosexual extremists." She also said she objected to students being taught that homosexuality is "normal and natural" and feared that the anti-bullying resolution would mean "inviting homosexual-advocacy organizations into our schools to promote their agenda to our vulnerable youth." She has since apologized and changed her views, but bleh.

- In 2017 she was one of the only Democrats to go straight to meet with newly elected President Trump, while most of the others refused to do so.

- I'm concerned about her Islamophobia. She secretly met with the Syrian leader Assad, not a friend to the US, and has generally had odd ties to and support for various sketchy Middle Eastern nations. She has also talked with and been pals with India's right-wing Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who is openly Islamophobic.

- In the 2016 election she openly championed Bernie Sanders even when Hillary became the nominee, which may have caused some voters to write in Bernie and take votes away from Hillary and/or not vote at all. In a close election decided by only a few thousand votes across a few states, this was no favor to the Democratic party.

- In her election campaigns in Hawaii, she has refused any requests to participate in debates. This means that voters don't get to see her discuss issues and decide whether she's the right choice. This despite the fact that she railed against Hillary Clinton for not holding more debates with Bernie Sanders in 2016.

- She embraces the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism," which is loaded Islamophobic language among right-wingers.

- She has a spotty record on guns; she has taken contributions from gun lobbying groups and has not spoken out forcefully about sensible gun control measures.

- She has expressed support for torture like the kind that has been done in Guantanamo Bay.

- She has been praised by former KKK grand wizard David Duke, white supremacist Richard Spencer and former Trump adviser Steve Bannon. She has also seen various international Twitter/Facebook troll/bot networks actively work to promote and advertise her messages and content. She has never sought out such endorsement and has at times actively rejected it; but it's still a bit odd that so many s*** people like her and want to endorse her.

A few links (Note: several of these links are from what I would consider biased liberal media sources. I post from these here while I would not normally cite these sources as impartial, since most of the criticism of Gabbard is coming from the Left.)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... r-the-left
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tulsi-ga ... 93e00a5952
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/tuls ... atic-party
https://www.thenation.com/article/tulsi ... ign-islam/
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... nt-778512/

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2270
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:13 pm

Get what you are saying. Most of those things don’t bother me.

She was critical of gays and lesbians. So was Obama. So was Hillary. He changed his mind. So did she. Was it because they wanted to conform? Her voting record since she came to Washington has met the approval of gays and lesbians. They forgave her.


Democrats, widely, did not support same-sex marriage in the 90s and early 2000s. In 1996, the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)—a federal law that defined marriage as the union of one man and one woman—was supported by 32 Democratic Senators and opposed by only 14 before it was signed into law by Bill Clinton. In the House, DOMA was also supported by a steep majority of Democratic Representatives. Only 40% of Democratic Americans supported same sex marriage in 2004. Hillary Clinton, in 2004, voiced support on the Senate floor for marriage to be between one man and one woman.
Tulsi Gabbard was not out of step with the Democratic Party in 2004. She, instead, took a more aggressive stance on a belief that was already shared by the majority of Democratic politicians and constituents.
Today, Gabbard is an ally of the LGBT community. She has a 100% record in Congress for pro-LGBT legislation, and has co-sponsored a plethora of bills for LGBT rights. In 2011, eight years ago, she wrote of her support for same-sex marriage and her promise to repeal DOMA. In the same year, only 15 Senators openly supported gay marriage. Not only has Gabbard evolved on the issue, she has evolved before most prominent Democrats have. And these facts are being brushed aside by the current media narrative.


She met with Trump after he was elected? Sounds like she was a good sport and wanted to work with him. I can’t hold that against her. She has made it clear that she like Trump would meet adversaries. She met Assad? Kerry met with Iran. I don’t get the feeling at all that she met with him to strike some secret money deal. She has made it clear she is against Americas regime changing wars but is for fighting terrorism. She used the term Radical Islamic Terrorism. I don’t have a problem with that term. The terrorists on 9/11, Al Queda and ISIS are radicals who supposedly are Islamic and are terrorists. The Oklahoma bomber was a Radical Right Wing Christian Terrorist. I know Obama didn’t use the phrase because he didn’t want to imply that all terrorists were Muslims. I get it. Then again it’s just names. They are both right. It won’t make me for or not vote for her.

She did openly campaign for Sanders. Many thought Sanders was screwed by the DNC. I think Gabbard isn’t afraid to do what she thinks is right and doesn’t care what either party thinks. Democrats for Hillary won’t appreciate that.

She has been wishy washy on torture. She said something like “A bomb is going to go off in a half an hour that kills 100,00 people and this guy knows where it is. Do you use torture?” I think she said she would.

I am against torture but in that case I would be tempted myself. It’s a slippery slope.

Her mother converted to Hindu. Her father is Catholic. She grew up in a mixed religion family. It reminds me of Obama. I kind of like that. There are reports of her getting cosy with India’s Prime Minister? I haven’t researched that. She is Hindu which is the religion of India for the most part.

She was praised by the KKK and Bannon for her anti war stance I believe. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was also praised along with Trump. I haven seen anything about her being a white supremacist and I don’t think Cotez is either.

From Gabbards site - Tulsi has a consistent record of advocating for sensible gun control. She has long called for reinstating a federal ban on military-style assault weapons and high capacity magazines, requiring comprehensive pre-purchase background checks, closing the gun-show loophole, and making sure that terrorists are not allowed to buy guns. Tulsi has an F-rating from the NRA, a 0% rating by the Hawaii Rifle Association, and a 100% rating by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. She is focused on building bipartisan solutions that can actually be passed into law, rather than using the issue as a partisan political football.

She didn’t debate in Hawaii in 2012. She still won and has held on since. She debated last week on the national stage and held her own.

I like Tulsi. I think she is real. I think she does what she believes and her beliefs aren’t that far from my own. I think she has been attacked pretty hard from all sides. That makes me like her more. She isn’t perfect. None of them are. She has gotten some support from Republicans because of her anti regime change stance. I can see why so e are afraid of her. If she gets the middle vote she is dangerous.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2270
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:41 am

I watched the Mueller testimony. It was painful to watch. He pretty much stonewalled everybody from both sides. For the vast majority of his questions his answers were Yes, No, I’m not going to answer that or it was outside the scope of the investigation. In the first session he refused to answer 120+ questions. Most of the Republicans didn’t really ask him anything. They were attacking his credibility and tried to make it sound like Mueller and his team were biased against Trump.

Dems - “Why did you say that?”

Mueller - “I won’t answer that.”

Dems - “What did you mean when you said this?”

Mueller - “I won’t answer that.”

One thing that was clear. Mueller said he found no evidence of Trump colluding with Russia but, made it clear that Trump did obstruct justice many times and said he couldn’t charge Trump because he was President. He was asked if Trump could be charged when he leaves office and Mueller said yes.

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9909
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:59 am

The Mueller hearing was frustrating. Mueller himself is trying to stay out of the political fray, and he desperately doesn't want to undercut the validity of his investigation by seeming to act in a partisan or biased way. I commend him for that. The House and Senate Dems don't seem to understand that Mueller is willing to carry the ball only so far. He'll investigate facts for you and report them, but then it's up to you to act on them if you want to charge the President with crimes. Mueller decided that he could not charge Trump, so all he could do is gather as much info as possible and pass it on to Congress. Mueller gave you ample evidence of multiple counts of obstruction of justice, and much concerning evidence (though short of provable evidence) to suggest conspiracy with Russia. Now it's your (Congressional Democrats') job. Do it! Start an impeachment inquiry and subpoena more witnesses and documents to find out the whole truth.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2270
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:22 am

I still think could have answered a few more questions. He was in charge. The report left both sides confused as to what it said. He could have cleared it up. He chose not to. It is like a game trying to get answers from him. Some of the Congressmen got it and were able to pry some info from him like Nadler.

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9909
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:33 am

So the House Democrats are beginning a Judiciary Investigation that they say may lead to an outcome of impeachment. This is not quite the same as a formal House impeachment inquiry but carries most of the same weight and purpose. Some House Dems are calling it an impeachment inquiry. It may end up being functionally the same.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... nt/594931/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-h ... estigation

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2270
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:07 pm

Unless a lot of Republicans turn on Trump there will be no impeachment. Investigating him annoys him and keeps his actions in the spotlight.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 14946
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:36 pm

It's too late for impeachment. Let's just vote him out of office the old fashioned way.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2270
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:57 pm

I concur.

Post Reply