Government shutdown

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Mori Chu
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Government shutdown

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:11 pm

Surprisingly we had no thread about the shutdown. It is/was a pretty big news story: the biggest shutdown in our nation's history. Trump made an announcement today that he plans to sign a continuing resolution (CR) to fund the government at its current rate for 3 weeks, with zero funding for the border wall. This is seen as a victory for the Democrats since they didn't cave on giving him any wall money, though Trump does say he still does want that money and may shut the government down again to get it.

I do wonder if Trump is just agreeing to the 3-week resolution so he can get permission to give his State of the Union speech on the House chamber floor. He doesn't want the spectacle and bad optics of not getting to give that address in its usual location. Then a week or two after that, he'll just shut it down again after he's already gotten to give his speech.

I personally don't like shutdowns. I don't think it is a reasonable way to do politics. Both parties have done them; they're bad in both cases. I think they should change the rules so that if they don't agree on a budget, it goes into an automatic continuing resolution every N weeks until they agree on it, rather than defaulting to a shutdown if they don't agree.

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Nodack
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Nodack » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:07 pm

I don’t think Trump will shut it down again. The optics killed him as it does anyone who does it. It was getting to the point of being dangerous with more and more people calling in sick in important jobs straining the system. Most importantly to Trump his approval ratings took a hit and that is always unacceptable.

I kind of liked it when there were automatic cuts across the board for everything when they couldn’t agree. That should be automatic. Everybody gets hurt the same and the Government stays open. They should lose approval for resorting to shutting it down.

I would be into a tax system that automatically balances the budget. Just say as a nation we spent 1 trillion for 2018? As a nation we collect 1 trillion in taxes. I am a middle class guy. I can afford to pay more than the guy on food stamps. The guy with 4 summer homes and a warehouse full of old collector cars can afford more than me. Make it fair but, we collect enough to pay the bills, not max out our charge cards every single year. It’s so ridiculous how we keep kicking it down the road and playing games blaming each other. It’s ALL our debt. No matter who you vlame for it it makes no difference. A Lannister always pays his debts. Make it automatically balance the budjet with less drama. They can still fight over what we spend as a nation but we pay our bill regardless.

There are times such as war where we spend more than we can afford. There are also supposed to be times like at this very moment when we are all talking about how great the economy is doing and I have heard it said tha is when we collect the most taxes. Instead of giving away massive tax cuts to the super wealthy like Trump and the a Republicans did we should be paying down our debt in good times.

Trump bashed Obama’s debt and promised to zero out the debt. As usual politicians lie and Trump is on pace to double Obama’s debt. It doesn’t matter who was elected. The debt was going to continue up.

We as Americans have to demand action on it. We as Americans have to be willing to pay our part.

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Nodack
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Nodack » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:03 pm

I saw this online yesterday and thought it was cute.

Nancy: What is your name?

Trump: Reek

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ShelC
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by ShelC » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:24 pm

Trump will shut it down again if Fox News hammers him. That's pretty much how he decides things. The more the Dems/left gloat about him losing, Pelosi beating him, etc, the more likely he is to shut it down to get what he wants or declare a national emergency because Fox will project him as weak or going back on his campaign promise.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Mori Chu » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:28 pm

Here's a thought: Can Trump get re-elected if there is no wall? It was his signature campaign promise, his slogan, the key thing he wanted to do as President: Build That Wall. And there's no wall, no plans to build the wall, no money for it, no design blueprints, no construction crew, nothing. Even if he got some money or declared a national emergency, these things take years; it won't exist by the time he's campaigning in 2020. There will be nothing for him to point to and say, "There, I did what I promised." Will the voters punish him for this?

It's easy to say that everything is upside-down and nothing matters in the age of Trump. But I still think some of his base may be upset if he makes no progress on his signature issue. Hard to say.

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In2ition
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by In2ition » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:02 pm

Do we know if he even plans on running in 2020? His approval rate is below 40% from last I saw.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:25 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:02 pm
Do we know if he even plans on running in 2020? His approval rate is below 40% from last I saw.
Is that a serious question? He's been campaigning for 2020 for nearly 2 years already.

He's never going to "quit" because he's too much of a narcissist. Could he be bypassed by the republican party? Maybe. But that would require them to have their s*** together very quickly.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:27 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:28 pm
Here's a thought: Can Trump get re-elected if there is no wall? It was his signature campaign promise, his slogan, the key thing he wanted to do as President: Build That Wall. And there's no wall, no plans to build the wall, no money for it, no design blueprints, no construction crew, nothing. Even if he got some money or declared a national emergency, these things take years; it won't exist by the time he's campaigning in 2020. There will be nothing for him to point to and say, "There, I did what I promised." Will the voters punish him for this?

It's easy to say that everything is upside-down and nothing matters in the age of Trump. But I still think some of his base may be upset if he makes no progress on his signature issue. Hard to say.
You're looking at it the wrong way. Trump will play the victim card, which is exactly how he enchanted the "white minorities" in 2016.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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In2ition
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by In2ition » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:53 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:27 pm
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:28 pm
Here's a thought: Can Trump get re-elected if there is no wall? It was his signature campaign promise, his slogan, the key thing he wanted to do as President: Build That Wall. And there's no wall, no plans to build the wall, no money for it, no design blueprints, no construction crew, nothing. Even if he got some money or declared a national emergency, these things take years; it won't exist by the time he's campaigning in 2020. There will be nothing for him to point to and say, "There, I did what I promised." Will the voters punish him for this?

It's easy to say that everything is upside-down and nothing matters in the age of Trump. But I still think some of his base may be upset if he makes no progress on his signature issue. Hard to say.
You're looking at it the wrong way. Trump will play the victim card, which is exactly how he enchanted the "white minorities" in 2016.
How long is the investigation going to go? You would think there would be a resolution by then.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Nodack
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Nodack » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:55 pm

I think we all want a resolution as soon as possible. The seven Benghazi Investigations took four years.

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In2ition
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by In2ition » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:34 am

I would like the government shutdown to end soon. I have a few family and friends directly affected by it. I saw there was a bill proposal to at least pay the Coast Guard, who can't quit or get new jobs.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/426 ... oast-guard#
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Superbone
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Superbone » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:38 pm

The senators and congresspeople should be the first to go without pay. That would eliminate these shut downs.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:21 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:25 pm
In2ition wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:02 pm
Do we know if he even plans on running in 2020? His approval rate is below 40% from last I saw.
Is that a serious question? He's been campaigning for 2020 for nearly 2 years already.

He's never going to "quit" because he's too much of a narcissist. Could he be bypassed by the republican party? Maybe. But that would require them to have their s*** together very quickly.
https://thinkprogress.org/gop-moves-to- ... ecd967c7a/

"As ABC reported, the RNC passed a resolution on Friday that threw their “undivided support” behind the president as he gears up for the 2020 race — a resolution that effectively undercut any other Republicans thinking of running. And the RNC passed this resolution as state Republican parties are considering even more drastic moves to immunize Trump from a primary challenger in 2020."
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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:22 pm

Superbone wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:38 pm
The senators and congresspeople should be the first to go without pay. That would eliminate these shut downs.
Not when the bulk of their salary comes from lobbyists.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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ShelC
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by ShelC » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:25 pm

The real punishment would be taking away the lobby money and having them live on their government salary.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Mori Chu » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:00 pm

I think they need to pass a bill that makes it so there is no way to shut down the government like this ever again. It's wrong when either party does it. If they don't agree on a budget, the Congressmen themselves go without pay until it's resolved; government continues at its current budget (a "continuing resolution") until a new budget is passed.

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Nodack
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Nodack » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:02 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:22 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:38 pm
The senators and congresspeople should be the first to go without pay. That would eliminate these shut downs.
Not when the bulk of their salary comes from lobbyists.
That’s what I was going to say.
ShelC wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:25 pm
The real punishment would be taking away the lobby money and having them live on their government salary.
+10

It isn’t going to happen on it’s own. Corporations and Politicians will be against that move. The only way that happens is if millions of Dems and Repubs take to the streets together en mass protesting it.

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ShelC
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by ShelC » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:36 pm

I think there's going to be a big change over the next 3-4 election cycles. This younger generation is more informed and engaged than ever IMO, mainly due to social media. The Rs might have traded short term power thru Trump at the expense of their future as a party.

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In2ition
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by In2ition » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:21 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:36 pm
I think there's going to be a big change over the next 3-4 election cycles. This younger generation is more informed and engaged than ever IMO, mainly due to social media. The Rs might have traded short term power thru Trump at the expense of their future as a party.
Ehhhh, I wouldn't go quite that far. I think a lot of the younger generation is well informed, but so many are amazingly uninformed and/or uninterested.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Government shutdown

Post by Mori Chu » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:14 pm

There are still a lot of people who don't pay attention to politics. But it's never been easier to be informed and keep up on issues. At university I see so many younguns who know all about complex things like marginal tax rates, superdelegates, climate policy, Israel/Palestine, Syria, guns, and many other issues.

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