Democratic Primary Debates

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:44 pm

Part 1 of 2 was last night. Did any of you watch? My 2 cents on the Dem debate's first night:

I still think Liz Warren is head and shoulders above the other candidates. She had a few moments tonight and gave solid answers, but it wasn't a dominant performance or anything.

Julian Castro really impressed me. I liked just about everything he said, and he spoke with confidence and gave clear ideas and policies. He especially stood out when the topic of immigration came up.

I just can't get into Beto O'Rourke. All sizzle, no steak, is my take. I don't think he's ready for the job; should run for Senate instead.

Amy Klobuchar presented herself well as a moderate no-BS candidate. I like her demeanor. But her policies aren't progressive enough for my taste, and I'm concerned by the reports about her mistreating her staff.

Cory Booker did pretty well, too. He's not my favorite candidate, but he's a good speaker. Emotional but poised, he makes a passionate argument with clear and graceful wording, unlike the nervous jittery body language that Beto seems to exude. Beto sure seemed to me like he wasn't ready for that stage yet. The dude should run for Senate in Texas first (again), methinks.

I wish they would have raised the limits more and cut out some of these loser candidates like John Delaney and Tim Ryan. I also wish they had spent more time on climate change, since it is literally going to lead to the extinction of our species unless the next President starts working on it and all. Oh well.

Overall it was quite nice to see adults discussing politics in a civilized way. Meanwhile our President was live-tweeting things like "BORING!" and insulting the network for having technical difficulties. Any of the candidates tonight would make a better President than him.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:15 pm

I still think Liz Warren is head and shoulders above the other candidates. She had a few moments tonight and gave solid answers, but it wasn't a dominant performance or anything.

She has passion. She wants to go after the 1%. She is def a front runner.

Julian Castro really impressed me. I liked just about everything he said, and he spoke with confidence and gave clear ideas and policies. He especially stood out when the topic of immigration came up.

He was just ok for me. A little pushy butting in on people.

I just can't get into Beto O'Rourke. All sizzle, no steak, is my take. I don't think he's ready for the job; should run for Senate instead.

I was high on him in the beginning but, he has definitely trailed off. You are right. He doesn’t seem ready for prime time. This year has put him on the map.

Amy Klobuchar presented herself well as a moderate no-BS candidate. I like her demeanor. But her policies aren't progressive enough for my taste, and I'm concerned by the reports about her mistreating her staff.

I thought she was pretty good. I can see her being a crack the whip kind of boss.

Cory Booker did pretty well, too. He's not my favorite candidate, but he's a good speaker. Emotional but poised, he makes a passionate argument with clear and graceful wording, unlike the nervous jittery body language that Beto seems to exude. Beto sure seemed to me like he wasn't ready for that stage yet. The dude should run for Senate in Texas first (again), methinks.

Cory did pretty well. There is something about him that bothers me. I am not sure what it is. Comes across a little fake to me.

I wish they would have raised the limits more and cut out some of these loser candidates like John Delaney and Tim Ryan. I also wish they had spent more time on climate change, since it is literally going to lead to the extinction of our species unless the next President starts working on it and all. Oh well.

I am really glad I got to see Gabby for the first time. She comes across as a person who really has their s*** together. I just liked her. She kind of reminds me of Wonder Woman with a few extra pounds.

Overall it was quite nice to see adults discussing politics in a civilized way. Meanwhile our President was live-tweeting things like "BORING!" and insulting the network for having technical difficulties. Any of the candidates tonight would make a better President than him.
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It was boring for Trump because nobody was talking about him.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:30 am

My thoughts on the second night of the Dem debate:

Kamala Harris crushed it. She had the moment of the night when she confronted Joe Biden about his past policies about race and busing. Overall her answers were bold, confident, and clear. Really looked Presidential and handled herself well on the debate stage.

Mayor Pete Buttigieg also did quite well IMO. He's clearly very bright and articulate and thoughtful. He handled the question about the police shooting in his home city well. He seemed more poised and clear-headed than most of the folks tonight.

Bernie Sanders, well, he is what he is. Pretty consistent performance tonight. He said the things he always says, and some of them really hit home, while others felt like he was just recycling his same talking points. I don't think he wins the nom this time. It's the same old song and dance from him. Every question, he turns it back to the 99% vs the 1% even if the question had nothing to do with that. I do like a lot of what he stands for, but I don't want him as the nominee.

I was completely unimpressed with Joe Biden. I thought another big moment was when Swalwell told Joe that he needs to "pass the torch." That got an "oooh" from the crowd. And he *does* need to pass the torch. He's running a 2008 campaign in 2020. He doesn't understand what we need from the next President and what we're facing. He got flustered and angry when challenged on his past record on things like racial injustice and the Iraq War. He seemed out of sorts at times, and angry at others. Not my President. I strongly oppose his being chosen as the nominee.

Gillibrand is non-viable to me. I like her support for women's rights and LGBT issues, but that isn't enough, and she doesn't seem ready to be President.

Andrew Yang fell on his face. Didn't present well in the debate setting; seemed in over his head, and presented really only one idea, a ludicrous universal basic income policy that will never pass and is not supported by more than a small fraction of the electorate. Sorry, Yang Gang.

Marianne Williamson was a complete joke. I laughed out loud at more than one of her ludicrous answers. She had no place on that stage. At least she brought a little levity to the debate.

My overall candidate preferences after both debates:

1. Elizabeth Warren <3
2. Kamala Harris
3. Pete Buttigieg
4. Bernie Sanders
5. Julian Castro (!)
6. Cory Booker
7. Amy Klobuchar
8. Beto O'Rourke
...
7. Biden
8-N. (Unelectable)
infinity: Tulsi Gabbard
infinity + 1: Marianne Williamson

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Superbone » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:13 am

I watched both debates as well. I agree with your top two (probably even 3) based on these debates thus far. My concern is whether the country is ready to elect a woman president (or a gay man). I would for sure but I want to make sure whomever the Democratic nomination is has the majority of the country's backing to oust the current clown from office. Biden wasn't great but he's much higher up the list for the majority of our country. Let's see after further debates where we're at.
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by ShelC » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:22 am

I think people are putting Biden in the Hillary and Bernie category right now in that he needs to move on.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:18 am

Biden was a mile ahead of the pack last week. We seem to be writing him off but, is the rest of the country?

I think the country is ready to elect a woman. We came real close last time. More women than ever are being elected. The Democrat field has Blacks, Whites, an Asian, a Hispanic and a Gay guy. The Republicans are the old white rich serial lying New Yorker guy party.

I think we can eliminate several Dem candidates pretty soon. I really have no favorite at this time. I am ready to dump about 10 already though.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:51 am

Superbone wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:13 am
I watched both debates as well. I agree with your top two (probably even 3) based on these debates thus far. My concern is whether the country is ready to elect a woman president (or a gay man). I would for sure but I want to make sure whomever the Democratic nomination is has the majority of the country's backing to oust the current clown from office. Biden wasn't great but he's much higher up the list for the majority of our country. Let's see after further debates where we're at.
I absolutely think a woman President can win. Remember that a large portion of women, who are half of the country's population, WANT to see a woman President. That counteracts many of the sexist men who might vote against a female candidate. Hillary Clinton lost for a variety of reasons, and sexism was one of them, but I think it was probably the 7th or 8th most important reason.

I don't think Buttigieg could win the election, but I don't think very much of that has to do with his being gay. Certainly that would hurt him since some decent portion of the US population is homophobic. But I think other things would be what would sink him, like being too young, and his mediocre record on certain issues in his work as Mayor (such as the recent police shooting).

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by JJ Slim » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:41 am

I missed most of the first debate because I was working late so I can only weigh in on that mostly from clips I have seen. I did watch the whole 2nd debate though. I mostly agree on everything that Mori posted on it. I do wish that there had not been so many on the stage and that the mods had better control of the candidates. I know that all were trying to get their minutes in and voices heard but it was a mess at times. I wanted them to have more time to explain some of their views.

Even though Kamala "got" Biden, there is a lot more behind that than the attack she leveled at him. He is one I wish could have been able to speak more. But on the other side of the coin, if you can't defend yourself quickly and succinctly then you have no business being President. Buttigieg mostly impressed me. Keep your eye on him. He reminds me of a young Obama.

In reference to Indy saying the country isn't ready for a woman or gay person, I disagree. I have said for years that a woman president would be awesome and whip this country into shape, not taking sh1t from anybody and saying it like it is. And you know the saying about behind every great man is a great woman. I don't care if anybody is gay as long as they can do the job. I don't care what they do in their bedroom on their own time.

"The Democrat field has Blacks, Whites, an Asian, a Hispanic and a Gay guy. The Republicans are the old white rich serial lying New Yorker guy party."
I've got to disagree with you on that too. The last Presidential election the Republicans started out with a women, a black, two Hispanics and at least one that has been accused of being a closeted gay all who generated a large amount of support.
Edit: I forgot to add Bobby Jindal, who is an Indian American whose parents moved to the US from India 6 months before he was born. But he only got a small amount of support and dropped out very early. He was the former Governor of Louisiana for 2 terms, not an area known as being a liberal stronghold.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:57 pm

"The Democrat field has Blacks, Whites, an Asian, a Hispanic and a Gay guy. The Republicans are the old white rich serial lying New Yorker guy party."
I've got to disagree with you on that too. The last Presidential election the Republicans started out with a women, a black, two Hispanics and at least one that has been accused of being a closeted gay all who generated a large amount of support.
Edit: I forgot to add Bobby Jindal, who is an Indian American whose parents moved to the US from India 6 months before he was born. But he only got a small amount of support and dropped out very early. He was the former Governor of Louisiana for 2 terms, not an area known as being a liberal stronghold.
Last election. Had all those people and who won? This election there is only an old white serial lying rich guy from NY who is going to be the Republican candidate.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Superbone » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:32 pm

JJ Slim wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:41 am
In reference to Indy saying the country isn't ready for a woman or gay person, I disagree. I have said for years that a woman president would be awesome and whip this country into shape, not taking sh1t from anybody and saying it like it is. And you know the saying about behind every great man is a great woman. I don't care if anybody is gay as long as they can do the job. I don't care what they do in their bedroom on their own time.
Yeah, you and me both but that doesn’t mean the rest of the country feels that way. I’m not feeling overly positive about it when I see how divided our country has become.
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by In2ition » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:53 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:57 pm
"The Democrat field has Blacks, Whites, an Asian, a Hispanic and a Gay guy. The Republicans are the old white rich serial lying New Yorker guy party."
I've got to disagree with you on that too. The last Presidential election the Republicans started out with a women, a black, two Hispanics and at least one that has been accused of being a closeted gay all who generated a large amount of support.
Edit: I forgot to add Bobby Jindal, who is an Indian American whose parents moved to the US from India 6 months before he was born. But he only got a small amount of support and dropped out very early. He was the former Governor of Louisiana for 2 terms, not an area known as being a liberal stronghold.
Last election. Had all those people and who won? This election there is only an old white serial lying rich guy from NY who is going to be the Republican candidate.
This kind of makes it sound like you think all the wide range of candidates on the Dems side, which was the point of diversity, will all win in the end. It might end up being just an old white rich guy.
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:02 am

It might. The last Dem nominee was a Woman. The one before that was a Black man.

Which Republican presidential nominees going back through time were white guys? All of them.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:50 am

Nodack wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:02 am
It might. The last Dem nominee was a Woman. The one before that was a Black man.

Which Republican presidential nominees going back through time were white guys? All of them.
It's also worth noting that most of the GOP minority candidates were unqualified. Ben Carson is an utter loon. Carly Fiorina is utterly unqualified to be President. They gay candidate, Lindsey Graham, is closeted so I don't think that really counts. The Hispanic candidates, Cruz and Rubio, were qualified, I will admit, even though I dislike them. The GOP candidate diversity kind of reminds me of The Bachelor, where they have a field with black and Asian and Hispanic contestants, and each week they get eliminated until she has 5-6 white guys left to choose from.

By contrast, most of the recent minority Dem candidates would have made (or did make) good Presidents. Hillary, like her or not, was absolutely qualified to be President. Obama was a strong President and obviously qualified. Harris, Warren, a lot of the women are qualified this cycle. Even a candidate like Castro has a lot of chops.

It isn't a contest, though, and it is a good thing when both parties run a diverse field of candidates.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by JJ Slim » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:08 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:57 pm
"The Democrat field has Blacks, Whites, an Asian, a Hispanic and a Gay guy. The Republicans are the old white rich serial lying New Yorker guy party."
I've got to disagree with you on that too. The last Presidential election the Republicans started out with a women, a black, two Hispanics and at least one that has been accused of being a closeted gay all who generated a large amount of support.
Edit: I forgot to add Bobby Jindal, who is an Indian American whose parents moved to the US from India 6 months before he was born. But he only got a small amount of support and dropped out very early. He was the former Governor of Louisiana for 2 terms, not an area known as being a liberal stronghold.
Last election. Had all those people and who won? This election there is only an old white serial lying rich guy from NY who is going to be the Republican candidate.
I would think that the one that won was the one they thought was most qualified to do the job. If you run a business I would hope you would hire based upon skills, not someone's skin color, national origin, sex or who they love. In fact it may be illegal and at the very least would not give your company the top talent it deserves. As I said I would love to have a woman president but I wouldn't vote for one running if I thought there was a better candidate. Just because the non-white male didn't win doesn't mean that the people who voted for someone else are racist.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:27 pm

I think Trump won because he was the best salesman. He made bold promises and could lie right to your face with conviction.

Trump has proven to me he is a racist and has used fear of other races to fire up his base. My mother is deathly afraid of Blacks and Mexicans so much so that she closes the blinds to prevent them from seeing her out of fear they will come back and rape her. I kid you not. She loves Trump and watches FOX News 24/7. Maybe they aren’t racists. Trump and FOX has made them afraid and I believe that they do it on purpose. The same with the taxes and the Socialism thing. Both party’s do the same thing. I guess it’s all part of politics. I am still sad.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:14 am

I was with you until the "both parties" part. How exactly do Democrats make people afraid of other races?

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:17 pm

Both party’s try to make us fear the other party. If you vote for these guys, all this bad stuff will happen and it will destroy America, so don’t vote for these guys if you love America.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Superbone » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:25 pm

Why are none of the candidates talking about social security and how it's going to run out by 2032 if nothing is done?
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by JJ Slim » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:46 am

Did anybody else watch the first of two Detroit debates last night? My take on it was a big snooze. Harris and Bernie were trying to out radical each other. John Delaney had a few good points on healthcare. Marianne Williamson seemed like the adult on the stage although offered no real solutions. I still think the two to watch are Warren and Buttigieg. I don't think any on this stage can beat Trump. I don't know if anybody noticed or if they just aren't talking about it but at the beginning when they national anthem was being sung all placed their hands on their heart except for Tim Ryan. He stood the entire time holding his hands together at his waist. I'm sorry but anyone running for this office needs to be a patriot, not that he was ever a serious contender.

At least I was able to look at the inside of the wonderful Fox theater. That place is beautiful. The last time I was there was to see Beck a year or two ago.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:00 am

Wow, I had a very different take. You think Marianne Williamson is the adult on the stage? I think she's a joke and won't be in the next debate. Good riddance. She's a crazy crystals and yoga lady who has no business running for President. Thinking a celebrity is a serious candidate just because of 1-2 debate lines is a dangerous precedent and is what happened with Trump.

IMO Warren had the line of the night, dunking on Delaney for being afraid to run on what he believes in. Sanders also had a strong performance. Nobody else meaningful did well imo; Williamson got a few cheers, Delaney raised some discussion points, etc. But none of those people have the slightest chance of winning. The mid tier candidates like Beto, Mayor Pete, and Klobuchar didn't impress me much tonight.

I like Mayor Pete, but I don't think he can make up the gap at this point. Pete is a great candidate: sharp, articulate, thoughtful. Has served his country. Seems to "get it" (much more than, say, Beto, who offers almost nothing). I'm glad he has done so well. He still has no chance of winning the nomination, but I agree that he's well positioned for the future and has enriched the debate and race as a whole. And it makes me happy that a gay man can get this far and be a major Presidential candidate.

Overall the debate seemed to be the front-running pair of left-leaning candidates, Sanders and Warren, vs. the rest of the more moderate field. I thought the lefties held their own and did a better overall job advocating for their policy positions. The moderates looked like they weren't willing to fight for what they believed in. And they got "dunked on" several times in direct back-and-forths such as that Warren/Delaney spat, and also a spat where Bernie was challenged for not knowing about Medicare for All, and he said back, "I wrote the damn bill!" LOL.

I do not agree that the debate was a "big snooze." They had substantive discussions about actual important issues and policies and presented meaningful arguments about different issues within the Democratic party. You don't think any of these people can beat Trump? Several of them are consistently polling 8-10 points higher than him, including Sanders and Warren.

Really things won't get "real" until we have the lefties on stage with Biden. We need a debate where all four of Biden, Sanders, Warren, and Harris are on the same stage. That'll be the first real debate among all of the qualified candidates.

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