Democratic Primary Debates

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Superbone
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Superbone » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:09 am

I can't argue too much with the "big snooze" comment as I fell asleep half way through but that might be on me for not getting enough sleep the night before. I woke up for the end though. Looking forward to tonight.
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by JJ Slim » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:39 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:00 am
Wow, I had a very different take. You think Marianne Williamson is the adult on the stage? I think she's a joke and won't be in the next debate. Good riddance. She's a crazy crystals and yoga lady who has no business running for President. Thinking a celebrity is a serious candidate just because of 1-2 debate lines is a dangerous precedent and is what happened with Trump.

...

I do not agree that the debate was a "big snooze." They had substantive discussions about actual important issues and policies and presented meaningful arguments about different issues within the Democratic party. You don't think any of these people can beat Trump? Several of them are consistently polling 8-10 points higher than him, including Sanders and Warren.

Really things won't get "real" until we have the lefties on stage with Biden. We need a debate where all four of Biden, Sanders, Warren, and Harris are on the same stage. That'll be the first real debate among all of the qualified candidates.
Mori I think we actually agree on Williamson. I didn't say I liked her. And I definitely don't think she should be running, much less on the stage.

And I wouldn't put too much into poll numbers especially this early. At this point a monkey could beat Trump in polls.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:23 pm

I watched both nights. Actually all of last night and came in half way through tonight but have it set to record.

I enjoyed the first night the best. I thought they all did pretty well. Even the guys I thought sucked last time.

The second night had more fireworks for sure. I don’t really like it when candidates go after one another. Obviously Biden was the top dog and everyone was waiting to go after him. He did alright. One thing about going after one guy. They end up getting the most time in by a mile, which is gold.

I think all of the candidates brought something to the table on both nights and painted a picture of what to expect and what the issues are.

Health Care, Medicare for all, keeping private insurance, getting rid of private insurance. I think getting rid of private insurance is a step too far. England has 100% Socialized health care and even they have private insurance available. If they try to force getting rid of private insurance completely I think that eliminates a lot of votes for Democrats and helps Republicans. They all talk about making Universal Health Care in the US a reality. I know it’s impossible but we really need to come together as a country and really decide what we are going to do about health care and I mean both sides at the same time, so we all have skin in the game instead of one side pro and one side sabotaging the other side. They all need to sign off on it and it better cover everybody for a lot cheaper.

I really don’t think there is a candidate that can unite the country and that’s what it’s going to take to fix any of this. All we can hope for is to beat Trump and go back to the normal F’ed up Politics. Until Citizens United is overturned we have no chance against big money. They say it will take an Amendment to the Constitution since the Supreme Court has already ruled on it. I still don’t see how the Supreme Court of the US could hand over control of our country to corporations. That really makes me wonder about the sanctity of the Supreme Court.

I enjoyed Williamson's takes a lot. It seemed clear she knew exactly what she was talking about when it came to the issues. She gets flowery sometimes but she nails it otherwise imo. I don’t think she really wants to be President. I think she wants to speak with America and the candidates in a real direct way and is succeeding.

I think Yang is one of the few that see the future. All our jobs are being automated. We don’t need near as many people as we used to and that’s just the beginning. That’s a serious problem since we keep getting more people in the world. What do we do about it? The good news is that automation has really made making things easier and cheaper. We as a civilization could easily feed the whole planet but that would require less greed. His plan was to give $1000 a month to everybody so every American would have at least something to live off. $1000 isn’t much to live off but for somebody on the bottom it would be a life saver. Doubt his plan goes anywhere. At some point it will come to a head. At some point the poor will revolt. I hope it’s after the Suns win a Championship and I am gone.

Who do I think won? No idea. Everybody is different. I was pulling for Tulsi Gabbard after the first debate. Then I read about the russian meddling trying to help her scandal. Then I heard she was suing Google for shutting her account down after the first debate when her name was the most Googled name after the debates. Google never did give her a reason. After tonight Tusli was once again the most searched name on Google. She delivered a roundhouse kick to Harris that Harris never saw coming. I was thinking CNN would bury her name. I just saw on CNN the entire group of about 10 panelists grilling Tulsi after the debate and thought she held her own well. She is definitely a dark horse but she is delivering some blows. I have never donated to any candidate or party in my entire life and I just did for her. She is pretty close to reaching enough donations to be included in the next debate and has almost a month left.

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Indy
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Indy » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:30 am

Nodack wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:23 pm


Who do I think won? No idea. Everybody is different. I was pulling for Tulsi Gabbard after the first debate. Then I read about the russian meddling trying to help her scandal. Then I heard she was suing Google for shutting her account down after the first debate when her name was the most Googled name after the debates. Google never did give her a reason. After tonight Tusli was once again the most searched name on Google. She delivered a roundhouse kick to Harris that Harris never saw coming. I was thinking CNN would bury her name. I just saw on CNN the entire group of about 10 panelists grilling Tulsi after the debate and thought she held her own well. She is definitely a dark horse but she is delivering some blows. I have never donated to any candidate or party in my entire life and I just did for her. She is pretty close to reaching enough donations to be included in the next debate and has almost a month left.
You are not concerned about her support of Assad and her voting to not let Syrian's and Iraqi's resettle in the US (which is also a point Assad wanted)?

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Indy » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:41 am

I watched all of both nights. I will say that I doubt there is anyone as qualified, as smart, and as prepared for the job than Warren.

Bernie really needs to go away. His race issues will give trump the election, as people will stay home if he is on the ticket.

Very similar for Pete. He is clearly the smartest man in the race, though.

Kamala--She is tough, smart, and won't back down. But I need to read more about her history and that department of justice issue before I make a decision here.

Booker seems like he would be a very good VP.

Casto--I just don't know about him. Kind of meh to me.

Beto is just a sound bite. No substance
Ryan and Delaney--they should be running on the other ticket.

de Blasio--f*** that guy.

Williamson--WTF.

Here is my ideal ticket:
Warren/Booker (I really like having a former senator as VP since they preside over the senate)
Kamala or Kobuchar as AG
Inslee as EPA Admin
Yang needs to be in the admin somewhere. Probably Commerce

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Indy » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:29 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:30 am
My thoughts on the second night of the Dem debate:

Kamala Harris crushed it. She had the moment of the night when she confronted Joe Biden about his past policies about race and busing. Overall her answers were bold, confident, and clear. Really looked Presidential and handled herself well on the debate stage.

Mayor Pete Buttigieg also did quite well IMO. He's clearly very bright and articulate and thoughtful. He handled the question about the police shooting in his home city well. He seemed more poised and clear-headed than most of the folks tonight.



Andrew Yang fell on his face. Didn't present well in the debate setting; seemed in over his head, and presented really only one idea, a ludicrous universal basic income policy that will never pass and is not supported by more than a small fraction of the electorate. Sorry, Yang Gang.
these takes stood out to me.

On Kamala, I thought Gabbard did a very good job of hitting her in the face about her justice department scandal, and she had no response. I like Kamala based on what I know so far, and love that she is tough, but I do worry about an overzealous prosecutor that withheld exculpatory evidence. That is a no-go for any elected official, much less a president. I need to read more about it to see the details, though.

Pete seemed to just hold his own. Not moving ahead, not moving back. I didn't think he answered the question well about his history of white office on black citizen shootings in his town.

Yang is one of the people I thought moved the most. He was the only one to address the public directly and point out how this entire thing is just one big reality show. It isn't a debate at all. You can't have a debate with 10 people and 3 moderators. It is just stupid pageantry. I have to read more about him. And I am not sure about your statement on UBI. Gallup did a poll last year that was 48 for, 52 against. I saw one this year of registered voters that showed 40% for and 43% against of registered voters. Not a small fraction.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:42 pm

Yang is the only guy who sees the future. His idea about a basic salary to be American sounds crazy but made sense to me. We keep having babies and the population keeps growing. Unfortunately or fortunately technology keeps progressing and is eliminating the need for workers. Like he said the GOP is blaming Mexicans for stealing their jobs but, it’s robots and automation who is stealing their jobs. Everything is being automated. In the not so distant future we won’t need drivers or pilots as well. We won’t need near as many workers. What does society do about that?

The standard answer is that we need to educate our people on the jobs of the future, which I think is great but, I still think that is just a bandaid.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:29 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:30 am
Nodack wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:23 pm


Who do I think won? No idea. Everybody is different. I was pulling for Tulsi Gabbard after the first debate. Then I read about the russian meddling trying to help her scandal. Then I heard she was suing Google for shutting her account down after the first debate when her name was the most Googled name after the debates. Google never did give her a reason. After tonight Tusli was once again the most searched name on Google. She delivered a roundhouse kick to Harris that Harris never saw coming. I was thinking CNN would bury her name. I just saw on CNN the entire group of about 10 panelists grilling Tulsi after the debate and thought she held her own well. She is definitely a dark horse but she is delivering some blows. I have never donated to any candidate or party in my entire life and I just did for her. She is pretty close to reaching enough donations to be included in the next debate and has almost a month left.
You are not concerned about her support of Assad and her voting to not let Syrian's and Iraqi's resettle in the US (which is also a point Assad wanted)?
I have heard a lot about that. I read her stance on her page and it made sense to me. She doesn’t support Assad.

https://www.tulsigabbard.org/tulsi-gabbard-on-syria

Here is but one statement the congresswoman has made critical of Assad: "We all know that Bashar al-assad President of Syria is a brutal dictator but this resolution's purpose was not merely to recognize him as such rather it was a call to action specifically is a call to escalate our war to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad…”

One of the most disturbing criticisms of Tulsi in relation to Syria has been the idea that anyone who opposes dictator-toppling wars is a “buddy” of the dictator. By that logic, anyone who opposes going to war with North Korea, is a pal of Kim Jong-un. Anyone who opposed the Iraq war was “buddies” with Saddam Hussein, etc. This is obviously a complete fallacy, smear and distortion of the position of those who, like Tulsi, oppose regime change war policy for well thought and fact-based reasons.



Humanitarian” Bill on Syria
Tulsi voted against “humanitarian” bill in relation to Syria because it was a thinly veiled attempt to justify ratcheting up the regime change war against Syria: https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-re ... hconres121
"...Assad is a brutal dictator..but this resolution calls to escalate war to overthrow Syrian govt"


https://www.tulsigabbard.org/tulsi-gabbard-on-refugees
Tulsi strongly feels that we must address the primary root problem of the refugee crisis, which is the U.S. policy of regime change war
Millions of refugees have fled Syria as a result of illegal U.S./Saudi Arabia war to overthrow Assad by arming terrorist “rebels”
Refugees from Central America are also a result of decades of U.S. regime change war, drug wars and exploitative economic policy
It’s critical to allow refugees to seek solace in our country, while simultaneously addressing the root causes of the crisis

I think she is getting screwed over. Now the say she is working for Russia. I don’t see that. I see that she is anti regime change and Russia likes that stance because they are friends with Assad. That doesn’t mean she is pro Assad or Pro Russia. She apposed the humanitarian bill because she felt it was a thinly veiled attempt to promote a regime change war in Syria. She says clearly that she wants to accept refugees from Syria.

Trump said McCain killed his healthcare bill that repealed Obamacare and he forever blames him for the failure. McCain voted no not because he liked Obamacare but, because the bill did nothing about replacing Obamacare, which Trump swore went hand in hand.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by JJ Slim » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:41 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:29 am

On Kamala, I thought Gabbard did a very good job of hitting her in the face about her justice department scandal, and she had no response. I like Kamala based on what I know so far, and love that she is tough, but I do worry about an overzealous prosecutor that withheld exculpatory evidence. That is a no-go for any elected official, much less a president. I need to read more about it to see the details, though.
Researching this is going to a whole lot harder.

https://freebeacon.com/politics/califor ... ala-years/
"California Removes Arrest Reports From Kamala Years
Routine website redesign obscures Democrat's record on criminal justice"

It isn't clear when the the change was made. In any case you are either going to have to email the California Department of Corrections and hope they give you the info or you are going to have to rely on someone else who got the info and then trust their interpretation of it.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:34 am

Nodack wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:42 pm
Yang is the only guy who sees the future. His idea about a basic salary to be American sounds crazy but made sense to me. We keep having babies and the population keeps growing. Unfortunately or fortunately technology keeps progressing and is eliminating the need for workers. Like he said the GOP is blaming Mexicans for stealing their jobs but, it’s robots and automation who is stealing their jobs. Everything is being automated. In the not so distant future we won’t need drivers or pilots as well. We won’t need near as many workers. What does society do about that?

The standard answer is that we need to educate our people on the jobs of the future, which I think is great but, I still think that is just a bandaid.
I am not trying to tell you not to like Yang. But I'm surprised you say that he is the only one who sees the future. Many of the candidates have policies aimed at combating the greatest needs of our country in the future. For example, climate change and health care are two coming crises, and many candidates have serious plans to work to make things better in both areas.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:39 am

Indy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:29 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:30 am
My thoughts on the second night of the Dem debate:

Kamala Harris crushed it. She had the moment of the night when she confronted Joe Biden about his past policies about race and busing. Overall her answers were bold, confident, and clear. Really looked Presidential and handled herself well on the debate stage.

Mayor Pete Buttigieg also did quite well IMO. He's clearly very bright and articulate and thoughtful. He handled the question about the police shooting in his home city well. He seemed more poised and clear-headed than most of the folks tonight.



Andrew Yang fell on his face. Didn't present well in the debate setting; seemed in over his head, and presented really only one idea, a ludicrous universal basic income policy that will never pass and is not supported by more than a small fraction of the electorate. Sorry, Yang Gang.
these takes stood out to me.

On Kamala, I thought Gabbard did a very good job of hitting her in the face about her justice department scandal, and she had no response. I like Kamala based on what I know so far, and love that she is tough, but I do worry about an overzealous prosecutor that withheld exculpatory evidence. That is a no-go for any elected official, much less a president. I need to read more about it to see the details, though.

Pete seemed to just hold his own. Not moving ahead, not moving back. I didn't think he answered the question well about his history of white office on black citizen shootings in his town.

Yang is one of the people I thought moved the most. He was the only one to address the public directly and point out how this entire thing is just one big reality show. It isn't a debate at all. You can't have a debate with 10 people and 3 moderators. It is just stupid pageantry. I have to read more about him. And I am not sure about your statement on UBI. Gallup did a poll last year that was 48 for, 52 against. I saw one this year of registered voters that showed 40% for and 43% against of registered voters. Not a small fraction.
To be clear, the takes to which you are replying were my takes on the first set of Dem debates. Kamala did well in those, I thought. She was weaker in the second set that took place this past week.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:37 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:34 am
Nodack wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:42 pm
Yang is the only guy who sees the future. His idea about a basic salary to be American sounds crazy but made sense to me. We keep having babies and the population keeps growing. Unfortunately or fortunately technology keeps progressing and is eliminating the need for workers. Like he said the GOP is blaming Mexicans for stealing their jobs but, it’s robots and automation who is stealing their jobs. Everything is being automated. In the not so distant future we won’t need drivers or pilots as well. We won’t need near as many workers. What does society do about that?

The standard answer is that we need to educate our people on the jobs of the future, which I think is great but, I still think that is just a bandaid.
I am not trying to tell you not to like Yang. But I'm surprised you say that he is the only one who sees the future. Many of the candidates have policies aimed at combating the greatest needs of our country in the future. For example, climate change and health care are two coming crises, and many candidates have serious plans to work to make things better in both areas.
I am not that huge a fan of Yang. I see him being treated as a total loon by the country with his take on the future and his $1000 salary thing. I see all the others bringing up the environment health care and immigrants. Those are the big three. I don’t see anybody talking about a future where humans aren’t really needed. Sure some jobs will stay but, any job where money can be saved by replacing a human is going to happen. I am not saying I am against technology. I think it’s awesome in some ways. I just see a future where fewer and fewer humans are needed and we as a society are going to have to address it. Yang made a stab at it and I commend him for it. I know his plan sounds crazy but, in the future we might have to do something like that or face a populous that turns on itself fighting for the scraps while the 1% laughs all the way to the bank.

The shooting today. It was a guy who hated Hispanics. He didn’t like mixing of the races. He called them an invasion. Yang made the point that Detroit didn’t lose their manufacturing jobs to Mexicans. They lost them to robots. Trump is blaming Mexicans and people are dying because of it. Trump goes after minorities and Muslims. Yang gets it. Trump is just evil to me.

At the very least we need to figure out what the jobs of the near future are and make sure our society is trained for those jobs. In the future future we need to decide how we are going to survive and thrive as a society. That might require “Yang” type thinking.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:49 am

Speaking of the future. I just came across this and thought it was interesting. Not politics but one mans view of the future.

Cyborgs will replace humans and remake the world, James Lovelock says
'Our supremacy as the prime understanders of the cosmos is rapidly coming to end.'
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/cy ... cna1041616
For tens of thousands of years, humans have reigned as our planet's only intelligent, self-aware species. But the rise of intelligent machines means that could change soon, perhaps in our own lifetimes. Not long after that, Homo sapiens could vanish from Earth entirely.

Whatever their form, the cyborgs will be so far beyond us in intellect that they may dismiss us as part of the planet's background landscape. Alternatively, they might appreciate us in much the way that we appreciate plants.

Once we get used to being treated like houseplants, the early days of the Novacene might not be so bad. For one thing, Lovelock says, cyborgs and humans will have a shared interest in protecting Earth from climate change, because neither we nor they can tolerate temperatures beyond about 50 degrees Celsius (122 Fahrenheit).

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Indy » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 am

I don't understand why cyborgs would need temps to be below 50c

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by ShelC » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:45 pm

What if the cyborgs don't believe in climate change?

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Superbone
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Superbone » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:47 pm

I’ve already watched this play out on Battlestar Galactica.
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Nodack
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:34 am

The frack you did.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Superbone » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:08 pm

Nodack wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:34 am
The frack you did.
One of my favorite shows of all time. Right up there with Breaking Bad.
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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Nodack » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:14 pm

I liked it too. Not near as cheesy as the original.

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Re: Democratic Primary Debates

Post by Superbone » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:29 am

Nodack wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:14 pm
I liked it too. Not near as cheesy as the original.
I never watched the original. I can’t imagine that it ever got nearly as dark.
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