Coronavirus

[JeremyG]

Yeah, sure, it's Biden and Harris's fault that people aren't taking the vax. Then how do you explain why you yourself won't take it, In2? Do you agree with evil Biden and Harris now, and go against Trump who supposedly bigly endorsed the vax from day one?

I didn't say that it was Biden and Harris's fault, or assign blame to anyone.

I've explained many times why I am not taking it. I don't see the need. I got covid last yr, got over it, along with everyone in my family and nearly all the families and people in my circle. I haven't been sick since, and the actual good data out of Israel, who track natural immunity, says that it's much higher and lasts much longer than the vaccine efficacy. Testing my antibodies recently said that they were as high as ever, so no need.

How does that explain the massive discrepancy in hospitalizations, severe illness, and death amongst the unvaccinated? You're cool with that risk, it sounds like. Have you lost any family or friends that were vaccinated or unvaccinated to Covid and what has that number looked like in both directions? My mom has had far too many family and friends (most near and below the poverty line) in Winslow, AZ where she was born and raised, that have died and weren't vaccinated. I'm talking about more than 10, which is big for such a small town. I don't understand the mentality when you are facing a stark reality and refusing to go in the direction of science and facts.

I hope you and your family and friends are able to dodge a massive bullet with natural immunity and avoiding a vaccination. Regardless of us not agreeing completely on things over the years, I consider you a friend on .net In2ition. I'd hate for an avoidable situation to happen

If he tested his antibodies recently and they are as high as ever (assuming a good level), then it might do more harm than good for him to get vaccinated. People who have high levels of antibodies already can have bad reactions from boosting them even higher.

Also, there is a difference between being vaccinated and being immunized. The problem is that people are told to "get vaccinated" and to just assume that it immunized them, when a large percentage of people are not being immunized (producing antibodies) after getting vaccinated. A simple blood test (such as LabCorp's semi-quantitative antibody test) can tell you whether or not you are really protected by the vaccine.

It's utterly insane that "vaccine mandates" say a person can go to work if they're vaccinated (even with zero immunization or protection shown on a blood test) but if a person has a high level of antibodies from natural immunity then they are not allowed to work.

[JeremyG]

Yeah, sure, it's Biden and Harris's fault that people aren't taking the vax. Then how do you explain why you yourself won't take it, In2? Do you agree with evil Biden and Harris now, and go against Trump who supposedly bigly endorsed the vax from day one?

Not a fan of Trump, but he has always endorsed the vaccines and taken credit for them. That is one thing he has been consistent on and hasn't flip-flopped about. It's a large percentage of his followers that have been against the vaccines, but Trump himself has never been against them.

[In2ition]

Yeah, sure, it's Biden and Harris's fault that people aren't taking the vax. Then how do you explain why you yourself won't take it, In2? Do you agree with evil Biden and Harris now, and go against Trump who supposedly bigly endorsed the vax from day one?

I didn't say that it was Biden and Harris's fault, or assign blame to anyone.

I've explained many times why I am not taking it. I don't see the need. I got covid last yr, got over it, along with everyone in my family and nearly all the families and people in my circle. I haven't been sick since, and the actual good data out of Israel, who track natural immunity, says that it's much higher and lasts much longer than the vaccine efficacy. Testing my antibodies recently said that they were as high as ever, so no need.

How does that explain the massive discrepancy in hospitalizations, severe illness, and death amongst the unvaccinated? You're cool with that risk, it sounds like. Have you lost any family or friends that were vaccinated or unvaccinated to Covid and what has that number looked like in both directions? My mom has had far too many family and friends (most near and below the poverty line) in Winslow, AZ where she was born and raised, that have died and weren't vaccinated. I'm talking about more than 10, which is big for such a small town. I don't understand the mentality when you are facing a stark reality and refusing to go in the direction of science and facts.

I hope you and your family and friends are able to dodge a massive bullet with natural immunity and avoiding a vaccination. Regardless of us not agreeing completely on things over the years, I consider you a friend on .net In2ition. I'd hate for an avoidable situation to happen

I had a cousin, who was also a nurse here in Mesa at the VA Hospital. Far before the vaccine was available, she went on vacation early on in the outbreak. She went to Colorado and then to North Dakota. While she was in ND, she became very sick and went to the hospital there. They evaluated her, but told her that they couldn't do anything for her and sent her home. She even asked for treatment with HCQ, which her brother took a week or so prior and got better after taking it. They refused to treat her with it, and she died later in ND, away from the hospital.

I've been lucky in that I haven't had any other family(that I know of) that has succumb to covid, and I hope that it stays that way. I did have a brother-in-law of my step mother, that also passed. I never met this person though, and wouldn't call them a relative.

Perhaps it was a massive bullet that I and my family dodged, as we all got over it without any longer term damage, that we can tell. Clearly that's not the case for everyone that gets it. We know that the original strain affected those with comorbidities, the immune compromised, the very old, and the very obese. It barely effected those that were young and healthy. I will still trust my natural immunity at this point over what is still effectively an experimental shot, without long-term(3-5 yrs) studies.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom and her family and friends dying. That sounds like a large amount of people. I am curious of their situation and context other than below the poverty line, only for my curiosity of their underlying conditions, reasons for not taking the vax, and what treatments they tried prior.

[Mori Chu]

Vaccines provide much better protection than "natural immunity" conferred by having previously been infected with COVID. Also, if you were infected a year ago, you likely no longer have very strong "natural immunity" against COVID today. Sources:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... ed-to-know
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19 ... l-immunity
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021 ... ction.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... -immunity/

Also, just look at the numbers. How many people are in hospitals sick and dying who are vaxxed and boosted? And how many are unvaxxed ignoramuses? It's almost 100% the latter group. Why would that be true if the vax were bad and if "natural immunity" were so effective?

In2 says he's gotten his antibodies tested and that they're still very high, which sounds dubious to me. Either it's made up, or he's misunderstanding what he got tested and what the results meant. A COVID infection from 1+ year ago would not still provide high antibody levels a year later.

[JeremyG]

Once Omicron is the virtually exclusive strain (and we’re almost there—only 4.7% of cases in the Southeast US were Delta last week), I see no reason to treat it any differently than other viruses players get. They can’t keep putting players into protocols for something that is milder than influenza.

Would love to see the mortality numbers that indicate it is less severe than influenza. Specifically need to see a mortality rate of 0.1% or less.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... erview.pdf

Hospitalizations are "Confirmed and SGTF" but it's unclear if the same is true for deaths, so for now let's just assume the deaths are only among confirmed omicron cases. Even so, that's 18 deaths/74,089 cases = 0.02% death rate. That also doesn't consider the fact that many mild/asymptomatic cases are probably not being sequenced, which would lower the death rate even more.

It is true that the numbers may go up since there is a lag for deaths, but so far it looks incredibly mild. 195 hospitalizations out of 239,893 cases (confirmed plus SGTF [S-Gene Target Failure])?!

[JeremyG]

Vaccines provide much better protection than "natural immunity" conferred by having previously been infected with COVID. Also, if you were infected a year ago, you likely no longer have very strong "natural immunity" against COVID today. Sources:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... ed-to-know
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19 ... l-immunity
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021 ... ction.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... -immunity/

Also, just look at the numbers. How many people are in hospitals sick and dying who are vaxxed and boosted? And how many are unvaxxed ignoramuses? It's almost 100% the latter group. Why would that be true if the vax were bad and if "natural immunity" were so effective?

In2 says he's gotten his antibodies tested and that they're still very high, which sounds dubious to me. Either it's made up, or he's misunderstanding what he got tested and what the results meant. A COVID infection from 1+ year ago would not still provide high antibody levels a year later.

Quit making false dichotomies. I never said the vax is bad. And yes some people do have high antibody levels a year later. Why should people with high antibody levels from natural immunity be discrimated against while people with zero or near-zero antibody levels who have been vaccinated be allowed special privileges? That is the definitition of insanity.

[3rdside]

I don't buy the wait-and-see-what's-in-the-vaccine view at all .. we've been making vaccines since 1798, so if it's FDA approved they've had 222 years experience to know what they're talking about.

But go ahead and convince yourself you know better

[In2ition]

Fully vaccinated people show higher rate of spreading COVID-19 than people who had and survived COVID.
BY THE LOW ETHIOPIAN REPORTS ON DECEMBER 15, 2021 | WORLD
https://lekreports.com/2021/12/15/fully ... ved-covid/

Never heard of the Lower Ethiopian Reports before.


A study from Israel https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 1.full.pdf from 2/3 of the population which is about 6 million people show records of vaccination and re infection statues and history said

” The analysis is based on more than 5.7 million individuals who contributed days to the five main
cohorts (Figure 1). Figure 2 shows the dynamics of the cohorts over time, with the area under
the lines over the study period representing the number of person-days at risk for each cohort.
Table 1 presents the number of events (confirmed infections and severe disease) by cohorts
and demographics, and shows the distribution of person-days at risk by gender, age and
population group in the different cohorts. The gender distribution was similar among the five
cohorts, with only slightly more person-days for women than for men. There was a clear
difference between the cohorts in the distribution of the other covariates; while 53.4% of
person-days in the Booster cohort were of persons aged 60 or older, only 8.3% of the
Recovered cohort, 13.8% of the Recovered then Vaccinated, 22.1% of the Vaccinated then
Recovered, and 12.6% of the Vaccinated cohort person-days were from this age group. The
distributions of person-days by population group also differed between the cohorts, reflecting the
fact that the Arab and ultra-Orthodox Jewish groups experienced higher incidence rates of
infections during the pandemic, resulting in higher proportions of these groups in the cohorts of
recovered persons than in the cohorts of persons not previously infected.” The study showed that human immunity against vaccinated people in infection is about 6.6 times lesser than fully vaccinated people breakthroughs.

Mutiple studies https://www.ibtimes.com/omicron-covid-1 ... ys-3357259 have stated and showed that vaccinated people can spread covid-19 to other people Bill Gates even admits that vaccines are meant to strengthen people and their immune system not stop spread of COVID or other diseases. The WHO reported that healthy vaccinated people have spread the virus proving Bill Gates scientifically based answer. Data from Denmark shows that the “Data also pointed to vaccinated people comprising most of omicron cases in some countries, with around 75% of Denmark’s cases being fully vaccinated people, suggesting that even those who have been jabbed twice can still get the virus.”

[In2ition]

I don't buy the wait-and-see-what's-in-the-vaccine view at all .. we've been making vaccines since 1798, so if it's FDA approved they've had 222 years experience to know what they're talking about.

But go ahead and convince yourself you know better

If we're talking about a traditional vaccine that uses a dead virus, and allows your immune system to develop antibodies against that foreign substance, then you are right. The mRNA "vaccines" are very different than anything we've done in the past. These are the first of their kind to ever be introduced to the public.

[3rdside]

Once again, i’ll defer to the FDA’s expertise rather than some idiot on YouTube.

[AmareIsGod]

Yeah, sure, it's Biden and Harris's fault that people aren't taking the vax. Then how do you explain why you yourself won't take it, In2? Do you agree with evil Biden and Harris now, and go against Trump who supposedly bigly endorsed the vax from day one?

I didn't say that it was Biden and Harris's fault, or assign blame to anyone.

I've explained many times why I am not taking it. I don't see the need. I got covid last yr, got over it, along with everyone in my family and nearly all the families and people in my circle. I haven't been sick since, and the actual good data out of Israel, who track natural immunity, says that it's much higher and lasts much longer than the vaccine efficacy. Testing my antibodies recently said that they were as high as ever, so no need.

How does that explain the massive discrepancy in hospitalizations, severe illness, and death amongst the unvaccinated? You're cool with that risk, it sounds like. Have you lost any family or friends that were vaccinated or unvaccinated to Covid and what has that number looked like in both directions? My mom has had far too many family and friends (most near and below the poverty line) in Winslow, AZ where she was born and raised, that have died and weren't vaccinated. I'm talking about more than 10, which is big for such a small town. I don't understand the mentality when you are facing a stark reality and refusing to go in the direction of science and facts.

I hope you and your family and friends are able to dodge a massive bullet with natural immunity and avoiding a vaccination. Regardless of us not agreeing completely on things over the years, I consider you a friend on .net In2ition. I'd hate for an avoidable situation to happen

I had a cousin, who was also a nurse here in Mesa at the VA Hospital. Far before the vaccine was available, she went on vacation early on in the outbreak. She went to Colorado and then to North Dakota. While she was in ND, she became very sick and went to the hospital there. They evaluated her, but told her that they couldn't do anything for her and sent her home. She even asked for treatment with HCQ, which her brother took a week or so prior and got better after taking it. They refused to treat her with it, and she died later in ND, away from the hospital.

I've been lucky in that I haven't had any other family(that I know of) that has succumb to covid, and I hope that it stays that way. I did have a brother-in-law of my step mother, that also passed. I never met this person though, and wouldn't call them a relative.

Perhaps it was a massive bullet that I and my family dodged, as we all got over it without any longer term damage, that we can tell. Clearly that's not the case for everyone that gets it. We know that the original strain affected those with comorbidities, the immune compromised, the very old, and the very obese. It barely effected those that were young and healthy. I will still trust my natural immunity at this point over what is still effectively an experimental shot, without long-term(3-5 yrs) studies.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom and her family and friends dying. That sounds like a large amount of people. I am curious of their situation and context other than below the poverty line, only for my curiosity of their underlying conditions, reasons for not taking the vax, and what treatments they tried prior.

Diabetes and poor health run rampant with her family. Low quality diet coupled with drugs, alcohol and gathering with friends and family play a huge part. It's not always apples to apples and I'm glad you're living a healthy lifestyle. I continue to wish you the best! I'm glad your antibody levels are looking good.

[Mori Chu]

Fully vaccinated people show higher rate of spreading COVID-19 than people who had and survived COVID.
BY THE LOW ETHIOPIAN REPORTS ON DECEMBER 15, 2021 | WORLD
https://lekreports.com/2021/12/15/fully ... ved-covid/

Never heard of the Lower Ethiopian Reports before.

This is classic In2 in a nutshell. "Guys, here's a study that confirms my prior opinions. I have never heard of the source before. Q.E.D.!" It's from Ethiopia, the bastion of medical research as we all know.

[In2ition]

Fully vaccinated people show higher rate of spreading COVID-19 than people who had and survived COVID.
BY THE LOW ETHIOPIAN REPORTS ON DECEMBER 15, 2021 | WORLD
https://lekreports.com/2021/12/15/fully ... ved-covid/

Never heard of the Lower Ethiopian Reports before.

This is classic In2 in a nutshell. "Guys, here's a study that confirms my prior opinions. I have never heard of the source before. Q.E.D.!" It's from Ethiopia, the bastion of medical research as we all know.

I mentioned that I have never heard of them, and in that I'm not holding them up as a bastion of medical research. The links to the studies included in the article do their own work. I thought it was understood, but in classic Marty way, it's about my posting.

[3rdside]

No dude, it's about your 'relentless search for the truth' which comprises complete bullsh*t research.

[In2ition]

No dude, it's about your 'relentless search for the truth' which comprises complete bullsh*t research.

LOL, stop, you're killing me.

[3rdside]

Ethiopian Times, or whatever it's called, a name so well known you can barely find it on the internet .. I salute you, Truth Hunter

[Mori Chu]

Hey guys, I found a napkin on the sidewalk that says COVID is a hoax. Haven't heard of the source before, just passing it along. No vax for me!

[In2ition]

touche'

I never said it was a hoax, but keep pushing that I said that. I never posted a link or article that said it was a hoax, but keep pushing that too.

[Mori Chu]

touche'

I never said it was a hoax, but keep pushing that I said that. I never posted a link or article that said it was a hoax, but keep pushing that too.

Yeah, and you never found a napkin on the ground, either. It was a sarcastic post, an exaggeration. But what you DO do is find random articles from sources you haven't even heard of, and instantly believe and reshare them, IF they confirm your existing views. But I can post you 5-10 links to reputable known news sources that don't happen to align with your views, and they bounce right off you as if you had an information force field. So I'm making fun of you, since that is a silly way to behave.

[virtual9mm]

Lots of directionally good news. Best of all is that Omicron is 70x better at getting into the nasal tract but 1/10th as good at getting into the lungs as plain vanilla COVID. No time to relax yet but best case scenario of a mild form of COVID inoculating anti vaxxers without killing them could come to pass.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59758784