Coronavirus

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

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JeremyG wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:51 pm
Interesting report from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm

FIGURE. Incident laboratory-confirmed COVID-19-associated hospitalizations among immunologic cohorts defined by vaccination and previous diagnosis histories — California, May 30–November 13, 2021*,†

This shows that natural immunity is, if anything, longer lasting and stronger than vaccine-induced immunity. And it also shows that there is virtually no benefit to getting vaccinated if you've been previously infected, which is what Sen. Rand Paul has been ridiculed for saying over and over again.
There is no data in this report that indicates this. There are no measures in the report about when someone was previously infected vs when they were hospitalized for Delta, so there is no way to tell how long it lasts from this report.

And Rand Paul has been ridiculed for so many things he says, because he is a fool. He says vaccinations are dangerous and unnecessary, despite the fact that the rate at which people experience life-threatening hazards from catching COVID greatly exceeds the rate at which people experience them with vaccines. Like by at least 1 to 2 orders of magnitude.

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is the kind of shit that gets him ridiculed.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mori Chu »

Sarah Palin out and about in NYC, unvaccinated, known to be COVID-positive, maskless. Going to restaurants and other public places in defiance of local mandates.


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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

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crazy that people think they have to stay relevant at all costs, and that "all costs" is being a vector of infection of a disease that has killed 6M people in the last 2 years.

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JeremyG
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Re: Coronavirus

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Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:05 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:51 pm
Interesting report from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm

FIGURE. Incident laboratory-confirmed COVID-19-associated hospitalizations among immunologic cohorts defined by vaccination and previous diagnosis histories — California, May 30–November 13, 2021*,†

This shows that natural immunity is, if anything, longer lasting and stronger than vaccine-induced immunity. And it also shows that there is virtually no benefit to getting vaccinated if you've been previously infected, which is what Sen. Rand Paul has been ridiculed for saying over and over again.
There is no data in this report that indicates this. There are no measures in the report about when someone was previously infected vs when they were hospitalized for Delta, so there is no way to tell how long it lasts from this report.

And Rand Paul has been ridiculed for so many things he says, because he is a fool. He says vaccinations are dangerous and unnecessary, despite the fact that the rate at which people experience life-threatening hazards from catching COVID greatly exceeds the rate at which people experience them with vaccines. Like by at least 1 to 2 orders of magnitude.
The chart shows that vaccine breakthrough hospitalizations increased a short time after vaccinations began (and became significantly more likely than reinfection hospitalizations), while reinfection hospitalizations among the unvaccinated never increased significantly and were actually lower at the end of the time period. This shows stronger/longer-lasting immunity from infection than from vaccination. At the starting point of the chart, vaccinations had only been around for about 5 months (even less for most age groups), while infections had been rampant for over 15 months.

As for Sen. Paul, he doesn't say vaccinations are unnecessary. He says they are unnecessary for those like him who have already been infected. And that is supported by the data from the CDC. But I guess science is only science if it fits the desired narrative.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mori Chu »

Rand Paul got COVID way back in, like, March 2020. The data would suggest that any "natural immunity" he got from that infection is no longer going to protect him from catching COVID again. Taking a vaccine would help him have greater protection in 2022.

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

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The chart shows that vaccine breakthrough hospitalizations increased a short time after vaccinations began (and became significantly more likely than reinfection hospitalizations), while reinfection hospitalizations among the unvaccinated never increased significantly and were actually lower at the end of the time period. This shows stronger/longer-lasting immunity from infection than from vaccination. At the starting point of the chart, vaccinations had only been around for about 5 months (even less for most age groups), while infections had been rampant for over 15 months.
Vaccines began the end of 2020. In the US they were widely in use by February (vulnerable and old) and everyone by April. This chart starts while they were still getting through the initial vaccines of the general population.

It does not distinguish between mRNA and the J&J vaccine. All studies we have seen show the J&J is not great at prevent infection, and only pretty good at preventing hospitalizations. And it fades much, much faster. There is no way to tell from this data if any of the infections after vaccination are J&J.

It also does not delineate actual populations in the groups. They are estimates: "Whereas vaccinated cohorts were directly observed in the immunization information system databases, unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis were defined using U.S. Census population estimates minus persons partially or fully vaccinated by December 11, 2021, and unvaccinated persons with a previous laboratory-confirmed infection before May 30, 2021."

When you are talking about such low numbers for never infected + vaxxed, infected + not vaxxed, or infected + vaxxed, using census population estimates instead of actual numbers are prone to over-generalizations and wider confidence intervals. When you look at the 95% CI for those groups, most of them overlap. The difference between 0.3 in one and 0.5 in another are statistical noise for many of these samples.

As for Sen. Paul, he doesn't say vaccinations are unnecessary. He says they are unnecessary for those like him who have already been infected. And that is supported by the data from the CDC. But I guess science is only science if it fits the desired narrative.
Like Mori said, he was infected nearly 2 years ago. There is no peer reviewed studies I have seen that show a previous infection prior to Delta or Omincron or AB.2 helps lessen the chance of becoming infected/spreading COVID 2 years later.

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JeremyG
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Re: Coronavirus

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Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:03 pm
The chart shows that vaccine breakthrough hospitalizations increased a short time after vaccinations began (and became significantly more likely than reinfection hospitalizations), while reinfection hospitalizations among the unvaccinated never increased significantly and were actually lower at the end of the time period. This shows stronger/longer-lasting immunity from infection than from vaccination. At the starting point of the chart, vaccinations had only been around for about 5 months (even less for most age groups), while infections had been rampant for over 15 months.
Vaccines began the end of 2020. In the US they were widely in use by February (vulnerable and old) and everyone by April. This chart starts while they were still getting through the initial vaccines of the general population.

It does not distinguish between mRNA and the J&J vaccine. All studies we have seen show the J&J is not great at prevent infection, and only pretty good at preventing hospitalizations. And it fades much, much faster. There is no way to tell from this data if any of the infections after vaccination are J&J.
J&J accounts for such a small percentage of vaccinations that I doubt it's going to sway the hopsitalization data much at all.
Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:03 pm
It also does not delineate actual populations in the groups. They are estimates: "Whereas vaccinated cohorts were directly observed in the immunization information system databases, unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis were defined using U.S. Census population estimates minus persons partially or fully vaccinated by December 11, 2021, and unvaccinated persons with a previous laboratory-confirmed infection before May 30, 2021."

When you are talking about such low numbers for never infected + vaxxed, infected + not vaxxed, or infected + vaxxed, using census population estimates instead of actual numbers are prone to over-generalizations and wider confidence intervals. When you look at the 95% CI for those groups, most of them overlap. The difference between 0.3 in one and 0.5 in another are statistical noise for many of these samples.
I don't know which groups you're comparing, but even with the confidence intervals the difference looks quite significant to me, when comparing vaccinated never infected versus unvaccinated previously infected. If you're comparing the two columns "Unvaccinated, previous COVID-19 diagnosis" with "Vaccinated, previous COVID-19 diagnosis" then that is my point exactly: there is no statistically significant difference between the two groups.

Again, at the very least, there is no significant benefit as far as hospitalization risk, for previously infected people to receive the vaccine.
Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:03 pm
As for Sen. Paul, he doesn't say vaccinations are unnecessary. He says they are unnecessary for those like him who have already been infected. And that is supported by the data from the CDC. But I guess science is only science if it fits the desired narrative.
Like Mori said, he was infected nearly 2 years ago. There is no peer reviewed studies I have seen that show a previous infection prior to Delta or Omincron or AB.2 helps lessen the chance of becoming infected/spreading COVID 2 years later.
All of the previous infections accounted for in that report were prior to the Delta variant. As the part you just quoted says, it only includes "unvaccinated persons with a previous laboratory-confirmed infection before May 30, 2021." That is pre-Delta.

And my claim had nothing to do with reinfection anyway. I was talking about the risk of hospitalization. If the risk is not significantly lowered by taking the vaccine after having been previously infected, then Sen. Paul is right that it is unnecessary for previously infected persons.

Again, there were a lot of people infected in California in those first few months of the pandemic in 2020. So if their immunity was decreasing so as to no longer prevent hospitalizations, there would be a significant spike in that chart as the months went on, especially by November 2021. Instead, we see no spike in reinfection-induced hospitalization risk.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mori Chu »

A completely unnecessary, senseless death. All because somebody wrongly convinced this guy that vaccines are bad. Now he's gone.


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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

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Almost harder to believe FOX News would run a story like that.

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

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Nodack wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:35 am
Almost harder to believe FOX News would run a story like that.
they are not above getting clicks even for a self own.

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

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JeremyG wrote:And my claim had nothing to do with reinfection anyway. I was talking about the risk of hospitalization. If the risk is not significantly lowered by taking the vaccine after having been previously infected, then Sen. Paul is right that it is unnecessary for previously infected persons.
We obviously are not reading the data the same way. And instead of just going back and forth on all the points, I just wanted to highlight this one.


I agree that if we had a standard for antibodies we could use that instead of required vaccines for all people. If you have over a certain amount, no need for a booster/vaccine. If you fall below that, get your booster. But Rand Paul is not arguing for that.

Paul continues to gloss over the time between infection and now. He is just stating it like it is a fact. Once you have COVID, you are better protected than anyone ever. Like usual, he is a blowhard and not basing his lambasting in facts.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mori Chu »

More stupidity.

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Superbone
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Superbone »

Yeah, hilarious.
"Be Legendary."

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's the classic BS "I was just joking" that people do to backpedal when they realize they've done something wrong.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mori Chu »

Masks do help.


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JeremyG
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JeremyG »

Denmark is having many times their previous record level of Covid cases right now: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... y/denmark/ So how is the country responding to such a high number of cases? By eliminating all Covid-related restrictions in the entire country! Wow.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... orse-cold/
The land where Covid is now no worse than a cold
"Denmark has scrapped its Covid laws, deeming the virus no longer a critical threat – cases remain high but the country has moved on"

From the article:
Welcome to Denmark, where Covid is over – again. Yesterday, the Scandinavian nation became the first country in Europe to put an end to all coronavirus-related laws. In the eyes of the Danish government and, crucially, the vast majority of its 5.8m citizens, the virus is no longer deemed a “critical threat to society”. Cases remain high – very high – but the Danes have moved on. Even if you test positive, there is no longer a legal obligation to self-isolate.

[...]

Tyra Grove Krause, director of infection preparedness at the country’s infectious diseases agency SSI, said there was nothing for it but to let the new wave “run through the population”.

“With omicron, it is impossible to stop the spread of infection, even with severe restrictions,” she said, before predicting that natural immunity would now combine with Denmark’s high vaccination rates to send the latest wave into decline by the middle of this month. As far as community health is concerned, Covid is now on a par with the common cold.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mori Chu »

Does the common cold kill 3000 Americans a day?

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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

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It’s most likely a common cold if you are vaccinated, under 65, not obese or don’t have pre-existing conditions.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

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