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Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:12 pm
by Indy
Superbone wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:05 pm
I have more faith in the country than you guys do. I think the American public has learned their lesson and will vote him out of office. If he were to try to suppress it, it would only make it worse for himself. I hope I'm right.
When the vast majority of your elected representatives are in the 1% in America (or have a quick path to the 1% via their office), you are already losing control of the democracy. There is a reason incumbents are so difficult to beat in any election. They make millions and billions for their "constituents" that are not people.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:30 pm
by ShelC
Which is why it's really class warfare. The Rs and Ds are fine fighting with each other because it divides the people and keeps them all (and their lobbyists) employed and wealthy. Media channels and outlets make billions as well.

Occupy Wall Street had the right idea with the 1%, but couldn't sustain. And here we are 12 years later bailing out corps with 500B when "there's not enough money" for other things.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:39 pm
by Cap
Even if he is voted out of office, the GOP continues to get more insane with each election cycle and still holds enough power.

The conservative line will be that Biden won because millions of illegals voted for him. Even if he is able to take office, he will not be able to govern. He will not be allowed to appoint a cabinet, or any judges, and will not get any legislation he can sign on any kind of remotely reasonable terms, including a budget or a debt ceiling increase.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:23 pm
by pickle
I told myself if Trump gets re-elected I will look into an Australian or Canadian citizenship... You guys are not helping with this.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:48 pm
by Nodack
I know I don’t want Trump for a second term. I just really want him to learn humility.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:04 pm
by Superbone
Nodack wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:48 pm
I know I don’t want Trump for a second term. I just really want him to learn humility.
Dude. Wake up! Trump will never learn anything. Just let him go gently into the night.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:22 am
by Indy
Cap wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:39 pm
Even if he is voted out of office, the GOP continues to get more insane with each election cycle and still holds enough power.

The conservative line will be that Biden won because millions of illegals voted for him. Even if he is able to take office, he will not be able to govern. He will not be allowed to appoint a cabinet, or any judges, and will not get any legislation he can sign on any kind of remotely reasonable terms, including a budget or a debt ceiling increase.
that is why the senate elections are so critical.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:04 am
by virtual9mm
ShelC wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:30 pm
Which is why it's really class warfare. The Rs and Ds are fine fighting with each other because it divides the people and keeps them all (and their lobbyists) employed and wealthy. Media channels and outlets make billions as well.

Occupy Wall Street had the right idea with the 1%, but couldn't sustain. And here we are 12 years later bailing out corps with 500B when "there's not enough money" for other things.
The so-called 1% (really, the 2% or 3%) are the only ones with enough clout to take on those who have the real power in the US -- the 0.1%. Real wealth and power starts at 100 million USD and 90% of the 1% have something like 10 million USD or less.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:06 am
by virtual9mm
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:22 am
Cap wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:39 pm
Even if he is voted out of office, the GOP continues to get more insane with each election cycle and still holds enough power.

The conservative line will be that Biden won because millions of illegals voted for him. Even if he is able to take office, he will not be able to govern. He will not be allowed to appoint a cabinet, or any judges, and will not get any legislation he can sign on any kind of remotely reasonable terms, including a budget or a debt ceiling increase.
that is why the senate elections are so critical.
The Senate elections are looking better. Burr really hurt himself, Collins is in trouble, Bullock has a great shot in Montana, and Gardner is looking shaky. And of course, Kelly is probably going to take down Martha. Even if the Dems lose Alabama, they can still win the Senate.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:08 am
by virtual9mm
Incidentally, I've been in a position to witness the birth of a gray market in facemasks and personal protective equipment that is linking Chinese producers and American hospitals, giving a big middle finger both to slow-as-hell FDA regulations and trade war customs regulations. The doctors are hopping mad and even the procurement departments are moving fast. Been hearing about tens of millions of facemasks being sent to California and Texas among other places. Sane people are saving themselves from a broken system.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:12 am
by Indy
virtual9mm wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:06 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:22 am
Cap wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:39 pm
Even if he is voted out of office, the GOP continues to get more insane with each election cycle and still holds enough power.

The conservative line will be that Biden won because millions of illegals voted for him. Even if he is able to take office, he will not be able to govern. He will not be allowed to appoint a cabinet, or any judges, and will not get any legislation he can sign on any kind of remotely reasonable terms, including a budget or a debt ceiling increase.
that is why the senate elections are so critical.
The Senate elections are looking better. Burr really hurt himself, Collins is in trouble, Bullock has a great shot in Montana, and Gardner is looking shaky. And of course, Kelly is probably going to take down Martha. Even if the Dems lose Alabama, they can still win the Senate.
Exactly. It is probably close to a 50/50 for the dems to win back the Senate right now. If more info comes out about how Trump spends that 500B slush fund that McConnell worked into the bill, it will only hurt the senators more.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:15 am
by Nodack
And good luck finding a copy of that bill to read.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:21 am
by Cap
I think 50/50 is optimistic, but there is hope.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm
by Indy
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:21 am
I think 50/50 is optimistic, but there is hope.
There are only 12 D seats up for re-election, and 22 R seats. It is basically given that Alabama will go back from D to R. Other than that, there are two other Ds that are on the fence.

For the 22 Rs, 6 are on the fence, and you now have Bullock in MT and Susan Collins seems like a dead person walking, not to mention Kelly in AZ.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:19 pm
by Cap
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:21 am
I think 50/50 is optimistic, but there is hope.
There are only 12 D seats up for re-election, and 22 R seats. It is basically given that Alabama will go back from D to R. Other than that, there are two other Ds that are on the fence.

For the 22 Rs, 6 are on the fence, and you now have Bullock in MT and Susan Collins seems like a dead person walking, not to mention Kelly in AZ.
Ds have 47 now, if you count King and Sanders. Subtract Alamaba and the two fences and they have 44 secure. Assuming they have the VP, they need to win at least six of the eight “fences,” six of which are R-incumbent. Sure, it can happen, but it means a lot of things going right, and 50-50 seems optimistic to me.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:27 pm
by Mori Chu
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:21 am
I think 50/50 is optimistic, but there is hope.
There are only 12 D seats up for re-election, and 22 R seats. It is basically given that Alabama will go back from D to R. Other than that, there are two other Ds that are on the fence.

For the 22 Rs, 6 are on the fence, and you now have Bullock in MT and Susan Collins seems like a dead person walking, not to mention Kelly in AZ.
I agree with most of your logic here. But I am gloomy about things like voter suppression getting in the way. To say nothing of the possibility of the election being mucked with or cancelled or delayed due to the virus.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:32 pm
by Indy
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:19 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:21 am
I think 50/50 is optimistic, but there is hope.
There are only 12 D seats up for re-election, and 22 R seats. It is basically given that Alabama will go back from D to R. Other than that, there are two other Ds that are on the fence.

For the 22 Rs, 6 are on the fence, and you now have Bullock in MT and Susan Collins seems like a dead person walking, not to mention Kelly in AZ.
Ds have 47 now, if you count King and Sanders. Subtract Alamaba and the two fences and they have 44 secure. Assuming they have the VP, they need to win at least six of the eight “fences,” six of which are R-incumbent. Sure, it can happen, but it means a lot of things going right, and 50-50 seems optimistic to me.
Of course it seems optimistic to you when you are already assuming the Ds will lose all of their close races. You can't win elections by assuming you are going to lose.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:58 pm
by Cap
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:32 pm
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:19 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:21 am
I think 50/50 is optimistic, but there is hope.
There are only 12 D seats up for re-election, and 22 R seats. It is basically given that Alabama will go back from D to R. Other than that, there are two other Ds that are on the fence.

For the 22 Rs, 6 are on the fence, and you now have Bullock in MT and Susan Collins seems like a dead person walking, not to mention Kelly in AZ.
Ds have 47 now, if you count King and Sanders. Subtract Alamaba and the two fences and they have 44 secure. Assuming they have the VP, they need to win at least six of the eight “fences,” six of which are R-incumbent. Sure, it can happen, but it means a lot of things going right, and 50-50 seems optimistic to me.
Of course it seems optimistic to you when you are already assuming the Ds will lose all of their close races. You can't win elections by assuming you are going to lose.
I’m not assuming any such thing. I’m just saying there’s greater than a 50-50 chance they’ll lose at least three of them. Losing all of them would be unlikely, but that’s not what it takes to keep power in GOP hands.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:31 am
by Indy
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:58 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:32 pm
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:19 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:21 am
I think 50/50 is optimistic, but there is hope.
There are only 12 D seats up for re-election, and 22 R seats. It is basically given that Alabama will go back from D to R. Other than that, there are two other Ds that are on the fence.

For the 22 Rs, 6 are on the fence, and you now have Bullock in MT and Susan Collins seems like a dead person walking, not to mention Kelly in AZ.
Ds have 47 now, if you count King and Sanders. Subtract Alamaba and the two fences and they have 44 secure. Assuming they have the VP, they need to win at least six of the eight “fences,” six of which are R-incumbent. Sure, it can happen, but it means a lot of things going right, and 50-50 seems optimistic to me.
Of course it seems optimistic to you when you are already assuming the Ds will lose all of their close races. You can't win elections by assuming you are going to lose.
I’m not assuming any such thing. I’m just saying there’s greater than a 50-50 chance they’ll lose at least three of them. Losing all of them would be unlikely, but that’s not what it takes to keep power in GOP hands.
You literally said "assuming..." they have to win 6 of 8 GOP fences. That math means you assumed they lost their two fences.

Re: Coronavirus

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:41 am
by Cap
Indy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:31 am
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:58 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:32 pm
Cap wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:19 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm


There are only 12 D seats up for re-election, and 22 R seats. It is basically given that Alabama will go back from D to R. Other than that, there are two other Ds that are on the fence.

For the 22 Rs, 6 are on the fence, and you now have Bullock in MT and Susan Collins seems like a dead person walking, not to mention Kelly in AZ.
Ds have 47 now, if you count King and Sanders. Subtract Alamaba and the two fences and they have 44 secure. Assuming they have the VP, they need to win at least six of the eight “fences,” six of which are R-incumbent. Sure, it can happen, but it means a lot of things going right, and 50-50 seems optimistic to me.
Of course it seems optimistic to you when you are already assuming the Ds will lose all of their close races. You can't win elections by assuming you are going to lose.
I’m not assuming any such thing. I’m just saying there’s greater than a 50-50 chance they’ll lose at least three of them. Losing all of them would be unlikely, but that’s not what it takes to keep power in GOP hands.
You literally said "assuming..." they have to win 6 of 8 GOP fences. That math means you assumed they lost their two fences.
They have to win 6 of 8 total fences, two D fences and six R fences.