Coronavirus

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Indy » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:42 am

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:58 pm
I don’t want to drive away the right here. I want all voices heard even if I don’t agree with them.
same.

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Indy » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:43 am

JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:42 pm
AmareIsGod wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:47 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:13 pm
Direct quote from the CDC:
Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
The percentage of people that are asymptomatic with the flu is substantially lower than carriers of Covid-19. Therein lies the problem.
That's not factual. Estimates vary but they are generally higher than for Covid.

I'm not saying it's worse than Covid. I am only saying that the asymptomatic argument is not an excuse for preemptive quarantine.
You don't close the barn door after the horse gets out. You don't take your insulin after you go into a diabetic coma. You don't get your flu shot after you have the flu.

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ShelC
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by ShelC » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:44 am

Google "preparation paradox".

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by specialsauce » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:11 am

AmareIsGod wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:47 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:13 pm
Direct quote from the CDC:
Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
The percentage of people that are asymptomatic with the flu is substantially lower than carriers of Covid-19. Therein lies the problem. Nobody is saying that carriers of the flu aren't ever asymptomatic. I'm not sure what point you're trying to debate here. If it's "the flu is more deadly and dangerous than Covid-19", that's wrong. The symptoms of the flu pale in comparison to the severity of the symptoms of Covid-19. The number of cases, due to the lack of widespread testing, along with the number of reported deaths are grossly understated when talking about Covid-19. I really don't know what factual information you are trying to present to paint a picture of the flu being more severe and deadly. It's not.
You’re correct. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He’s pointing out a CDC general statement with no statistics. There have been many studies on rates of asymptomatic infection of influenza. Nothing significant on actual transmission by asymptomatic patients. This is entirely a different planet. Like you told me, don’t bother man.

And Nodack, this ain’t a republican vs Democrat debate. Give the republicans more credit than that- many are intelligent just have fundamental disagreements. This is the uneducated sector of America that has found a voice through Trump and he knows this is his base. Those that get their information not from medical journals, but from YouTube videos.

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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Nodack » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:18 am

Give the republicans more credit than that.
Sorry, I can’t. Not after the last decade and a half.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by AmareIsGod » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:51 am

JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:42 pm
AmareIsGod wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:47 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:13 pm
Direct quote from the CDC:
Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
The percentage of people that are asymptomatic with the flu is substantially lower than carriers of Covid-19. Therein lies the problem.
That's not factual. Estimates vary but they are generally higher than for Covid.

I'm not saying it's worse than Covid. I am only saying that the asymptomatic argument is not an excuse for preemptive quarantine.
That is correct and I was mistaken. Influenza asymptomatic carriers can be upwards of 50%. The big difference, though, is that most asymptomatic carriers of influenza are due to pre-existing partial immunity (flu shots, having had the flu at some point in their lives).
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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by specialsauce » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 pm

AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:51 am
JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:42 pm
AmareIsGod wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:47 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:13 pm
Direct quote from the CDC:
Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
The percentage of people that are asymptomatic with the flu is substantially lower than carriers of Covid-19. Therein lies the problem.
That's not factual. Estimates vary but they are generally higher than for Covid.

I'm not saying it's worse than Covid. I am only saying that the asymptomatic argument is not an excuse for preemptive quarantine.
That is correct and I was mistaken. Influenza asymptomatic carriers can be upwards of 50%. The big difference, though, is that most asymptomatic carriers of influenza are due to pre-existing partial immunity (flu shots, having had the flu at some point in their lives).
Again. It is believed that asymptomatic TRANSMISSION is insignificant in influenza. That’s what matters.


I don’t work for banner, but FYI:

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by specialsauce » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:04 pm

Nodack wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:18 am
Give the republicans more credit than that.
Sorry, I can’t. Not after the last decade and a half.
Really it’s been particularly bad since Trump. He’s ripped this country apart.

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Superbone
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Superbone » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:39 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:04 pm
Nodack wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:18 am
Give the republicans more credit than that.
Sorry, I can’t. Not after the last decade and a half.
Really it’s been particularly bad since Trump. He’s ripped this country apart.
Don’t you know? Today is a great day for George Floyd. Because economy.
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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Nodack » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 pm

It’s been particularly bad under Trump but, it was already broken before he arrived. Trump just hastened it’s demise to the point of total ridiculousness. I truly have zero faith in our leaders doing the right thing by the people.

Health Care - FUBAR They will never work together and make it affordable for all Americans. ALL Democrat Presidents have made a stab at fixing it. Obama was the first to actually get any change done. It only made it 3/4 and got neutered. Trump and Republicans have sabotaged it as much as possible. Trump promised he would repeal Obamacare and replace it with something that covers all Americans for a tiny fraction of what Obamacare costs and it was going to be SO easy!. That was total BS and a big fail. They claim Obamacare made it sky high. It was already sky high and climbing since the 1970’s. Instead of working together studying other countries strength and weaknesses in health care and coming up with the best system, they fight and DO nothing. I don’t see the two sides ever working together for the greater good of all Americans. F-

Debt - This is huge for me. Neither side is interested in lowering the debt. When one side is in power the other side screams about the debt. When the roles reverse so does the stance on the debt. Meanwhile it continues to skyrocket and the virus has made even that much worse. Giving a massive tax cut to the top 1% in a great economy while demanding we stop food stamps to the poor is what makes me lose faith in the government. F-

Infrastructure- Everyone knows our infrastructure is crumbling and they all talk the talk but, nobody walks the walk. F-

Race relations - I don’t know how you legislate race relations. People have to change. You can’t make a law that says people have to love each other. You can make laws that punish seriously bad behavior. You can do a better job choosing who becomes a cop. Some people have been calling for banning all cops. That’s absurd. A society cannot function with out the police. Their job is super hard and they have a huge responsibility. I truly feel sorry for the cops out there that aren’t racist and really try to do a good job for theor community. Right now they all must feel like America hates them and that isn’t right either. They are going to have to be held liable for stopping their brothers they see abusing the trust of the people. They will have to speak up. One of those cops needed to say enough is enough, stop choking him and lets get him in the car but, they didn’t and they did it right in front of witnesses with cameras in a cold blooded fashion. We have seen this same thing so many times before and stopping it isn’t easy. What stops racism? I think fathers teaching their young kids that racism is bad is just about the only thing that slows down racism. Old people like my mother are set in their ways and you wil never convince them otherwise. Those dads who are racist and teach their kids to hate minorities is what keeps racism alive. When I was a kid I never saw mixed race’s. Today I see it all the time and that gives me hope. I am all for mixing it all up until we are all mutts. B+

B+ because this event is the kind of event that has the possibility of creating real change in America if it doesn’t peter out.

JeremyG
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JeremyG » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:52 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:43 am
JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:42 pm
AmareIsGod wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:47 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:13 pm
Direct quote from the CDC:
Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
The percentage of people that are asymptomatic with the flu is substantially lower than carriers of Covid-19. Therein lies the problem.
That's not factual. Estimates vary but they are generally higher than for Covid.

I'm not saying it's worse than Covid. I am only saying that the asymptomatic argument is not an excuse for preemptive quarantine.
You don't close the barn door after the horse gets out. You don't take your insulin after you go into a diabetic coma. You don't get your flu shot after you have the flu.
You mean the flu shot that was only 29% effective last year? (https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/q ... -says.html)

I propose we institute preemptive quarantine every flu season from December-February in order to reduce the number of flu deaths. Any objections?

JeremyG
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JeremyG » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 pm
Again. It is believed that asymptomatic TRANSMISSION is insignificant in influenza. That’s what matters.
If it's insignificant then why does the CDC warn about it?

Also, it's absolutely incredible how people are characterizing me as "right-wing," "uneducated" (as if you have any idea what my education level is), and pro-Trump. And this is after I specifically stated in this thread that I am not pro-Trump. I am a libertarian-minded registered Independent who votes third-party (Gary Johnson in the last presidential election), and I am opposed to both Republicans and Democrats. I do not accept the left-right paradigm, but if you want to say it exists, then I am anti-right and anti-left.

I will definitely not be voting for Trump this year.

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Superbone
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Superbone » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:07 pm

JeremyG wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm
Also, it's absolutely incredible how people are characterizing me as "right-wing," "uneducated" (as if you have any idea what my education level is), and pro-Trump. And this is after I specifically stated in this thread that I am not pro-Trump. I am a libertarian-minded registered Independent who votes third-party (Gary Johnson in the last presidential election), and I am opposed to both Republicans and Democrats. I do not accept the left-right paradigm, but if you want to say it exists, then I am anti-right and anti-left.

I will definitely not be voting for Trump this year.
Thank you for not voting for Trump. I agree that we need to learn how to talk to each other and not make assumptions about each other. We’re never going to get anywhere if we talk in absolutes. And I’m guilty of it as well. I’m totally fed up with Trump and I’m not going to hide it. But which of these two statements has a better chance of convincing somebody not to vote for Trump?

1. You’re an idiot and a moron if you vote for Trump.

2. I think it would be really bad for our country if Trump was re-elected because... (too many things for me to list :D )
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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by specialsauce » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:56 pm

JeremyG wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 pm
Again. It is believed that asymptomatic TRANSMISSION is insignificant in influenza. That’s what matters.
If it's insignificant then why does the CDC warn about it?

Also, it's absolutely incredible how people are characterizing me as "right-wing," "uneducated" (as if you have any idea what my education level is), and pro-Trump. And this is after I specifically stated in this thread that I am not pro-Trump. I am a libertarian-minded registered Independent who votes third-party (Gary Johnson in the last presidential election), and I am opposed to both Republicans and Democrats. I do not accept the left-right paradigm, but if you want to say it exists, then I am anti-right and anti-left.

I will definitely not be voting for Trump this year.
It doesn’t matter whether they warn of it or not. The CDC doesn’t state it’s common. They just say it’s possible. You’re jumping to wild conclusions off a website with no data. It’s a miniscule amount of the overall infections. That’s an uneducated statement misinforming the masses. It’s what it is. May I suggest you educate through medical journals rather than internet websites.

I can tell you that none of my colleagues, republican or democrat, who are physicians experiencing this pandemic firsthand are speaking of influenza and COVID as remotely similar. We all know another physician, friend or family who died of this just already. That’s not the case with influenza.

.

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Indy » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:11 am

JeremyG wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 pm
Again. It is believed that asymptomatic TRANSMISSION is insignificant in influenza. That’s what matters.
If it's insignificant then why does the CDC warn about it?

Also, it's absolutely incredible how people are characterizing me as "right-wing," "uneducated" (as if you have any idea what my education level is), and pro-Trump. And this is after I specifically stated in this thread that I am not pro-Trump. I am a libertarian-minded registered Independent who votes third-party (Gary Johnson in the last presidential election), and I am opposed to both Republicans and Democrats. I do not accept the left-right paradigm, but if you want to say it exists, then I am anti-right and anti-left.

I will definitely not be voting for Trump this year.
You can have 3 doctorate degrees and be a globally recognized leader in your field and still be uneducated when it comes to medicine and virology. Read the medical journals or at least some studies published in those journals before assuming you know more than physicians and clinical scientists and virologists on this.

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Indy » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:12 am

specialsauce wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:56 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 pm
Again. It is believed that asymptomatic TRANSMISSION is insignificant in influenza. That’s what matters.
If it's insignificant then why does the CDC warn about it?

Also, it's absolutely incredible how people are characterizing me as "right-wing," "uneducated" (as if you have any idea what my education level is), and pro-Trump. And this is after I specifically stated in this thread that I am not pro-Trump. I am a libertarian-minded registered Independent who votes third-party (Gary Johnson in the last presidential election), and I am opposed to both Republicans and Democrats. I do not accept the left-right paradigm, but if you want to say it exists, then I am anti-right and anti-left.

I will definitely not be voting for Trump this year.
It doesn’t matter whether they warn of it or not. The CDC doesn’t state it’s common. They just say it’s possible. You’re jumping to wild conclusions off a website with no data. It’s a miniscule amount of the overall infections. That’s an uneducated statement misinforming the masses. It’s what it is. May I suggest you educate through medical journals rather than internet websites.

I can tell you that none of my colleagues, republican or democrat, who are physicians experiencing this pandemic firsthand are speaking of influenza and COVID as remotely similar. We all know another physician, friend or family who died of this just already. That’s not the case with influenza.


.
This. I know many physicians that voted for different parities that are all agreed on this.

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by specialsauce » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:52 pm

WHO is saying today that asymptomatic transmission is rare now. Idk what is going on over there. Clown show. They also discouraged from wearing masks unless caring for a COVID patient, makes no sense.

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Cap
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Cap » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:15 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:52 pm
WHO is saying today that asymptomatic transmission is rare now. Idk what is going on over there. Clown show. They also discouraged from wearing masks unless caring for a COVID patient, makes no sense.
They added some other exceptions too, such as going places where social distancing can’t be maintained.
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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Nodack » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:31 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:52 pm
WHO is saying today that asymptomatic transmission is rare now. Idk what is going on over there. Clown show. They also discouraged from wearing masks unless caring for a COVID patient, makes no sense.
Don't wear a mask. It won’t protect you if you are near someone with Covid but, if you are caring for someone with Covid make sure you wear a mask, it might help you not get it.

Clear as mud.

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by specialsauce » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:40 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:31 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:52 pm
WHO is saying today that asymptomatic transmission is rare now. Idk what is going on over there. Clown show. They also discouraged from wearing masks unless caring for a COVID patient, makes no sense.
Don't wear a mask. It won’t protect you if you are near someone with Covid but, if you are caring for someone with Covid make sure you wear a mask, it might help you not get it.

Clear as mud.
It’s totally ridiculous.

If you wear a mask but the person infected doesn’t, risk of transmission is still quite high. Both must be wearing a mask for effective control.


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