Racism in the US

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
Post Reply
User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 17267
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Racism in the US

Post by Superbone » Tue May 26, 2020 8:45 pm

Is it ever going to get any better? Today was another ridiculous day of examples.

I thought this was pretty powerful:


If anybody else has watched the video, it’s unbelievable. The guy is begging for the officer to remove pressure from his neck but the officer leans in even more. He killed the man that he was arresting for forgery.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneapoli ... ling-neck/

And then there was the white woman in Central Park caught on camera calling the cops on a black man who was an avid bird watcher who asked her to leash her dog. He filmed the whole thing and you could see her making crazy accusations to the cops on the phone while making sure to note that an African American man was attacking her when he clearly wasn’t. At least she lost her job. The cops did too but a man is dead now because of their actions.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/central-pa ... templeton/

I don’t see a whole lot of improvement in the last 50 years and I’m beginning to wonder if racial equality will ever exist. I don’t expect it to in my lifetime.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

Online
User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 2995
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Tue May 26, 2020 10:33 pm

Racism isn't an American problem, it's a people problem.

That's not to say we should ignore or accept that it's happening. In fact, it seems the only way to combat racism is by not being afraid of pointing it out in the first place.

I think the way the woman in the park has been treated is fair. She was out of line and not all mistakes are equal.

The Minneapolis police officer should be in prison for the rest of his life, and the others who didn't do enough to stop him should never be paid to work in public service again.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 17267
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Superbone » Tue May 26, 2020 10:57 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:33 pm
Racism isn't an American problem, it's a people problem.

That's not to say we should ignore or accept that it's happening. In fact, it seems the only way to combat racism is by not being afraid of pointing it out in the first place.

I think the way the woman in the park has been treated is fair. She was out of line and not all mistakes are equal.

The Minneapolis police officer should be in prison for the rest of his life, and the others who didn't do enough to stop him should never be paid to work in public service again.
Yeah, you’re right that it’s not just an American problem. But my ancestors did force a large populations of black people into our country as slaves and now continue to treat them as less than hundreds of years later.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

Online
User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 2995
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Tue May 26, 2020 11:20 pm

Superbone wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:57 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:33 pm
Racism isn't an American problem, it's a people problem.

That's not to say we should ignore or accept that it's happening. In fact, it seems the only way to combat racism is by not being afraid of pointing it out in the first place.

I think the way the woman in the park has been treated is fair. She was out of line and not all mistakes are equal.

The Minneapolis police officer should be in prison for the rest of his life, and the others who didn't do enough to stop him should never be paid to work in public service again.
Yeah, you’re right that it’s not just an American problem. But my ancestors did force a large populations of black people into our country as slaves and now continue to treat them as less than hundreds of years later.
There are theories that us Homo Sapiens significantly contributed to the extinction of the Neanderthals.

(Prepare for armchair social psychologist/anthropologist)

The point I'm trying to make is that something like racism comes from the "lizard" part of our brain. I believe there are parts of our ancient past deeply embedded in our DNA that would take thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of years to evolve out of ourselves. At our core, basically every conflict in our known history has come down to some sort of bigoted or intolerant point of view. It's so easy to look around in awe at our modern world and then wonder why humans are still so stupid like when it comes to things such as racism, but I think that's who we are as a collective species.

Ending racism is up there with World peace as a bunch of pie in the sky stuff. By no means am I saying that we shouldn't strive for those things, but I also think it's reasonable that we're simply not equipped with the right hardware to make that kind of change over the span of a handful of generations.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 17267
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Superbone » Wed May 27, 2020 12:54 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:20 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:57 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:33 pm
Racism isn't an American problem, it's a people problem.

That's not to say we should ignore or accept that it's happening. In fact, it seems the only way to combat racism is by not being afraid of pointing it out in the first place.

I think the way the woman in the park has been treated is fair. She was out of line and not all mistakes are equal.

The Minneapolis police officer should be in prison for the rest of his life, and the others who didn't do enough to stop him should never be paid to work in public service again.
Yeah, you’re right that it’s not just an American problem. But my ancestors did force a large populations of black people into our country as slaves and now continue to treat them as less than hundreds of years later.
There are theories that us Homo Sapiens significantly contributed to the extinction of the Neanderthals.

(Prepare for armchair social psychologist/anthropologist)

The point I'm trying to make is that something like racism comes from the "lizard" part of our brain. I believe there are parts of our ancient past deeply embedded in our DNA that would take thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of years to evolve out of ourselves. At our core, basically every conflict in our known history has come down to some sort of bigoted or intolerant point of view. It's so easy to look around in awe at our modern world and then wonder why humans are still so stupid like when it comes to things such as racism, but I think that's who we are as a collective species.

Ending racism is up there with World peace as a bunch of pie in the sky stuff. By no means am I saying that we shouldn't strive for those things, but I also think it's reasonable that we're simply not equipped with the right hardware to make that kind of change over the span of a handful of generations.
I don’t buy it. I think it’s all about exposure to other races and cultures as well as upbringing. Humans fear the unknown. I can look at racism in my own family and see how it has improved over four generations. I never heard my grandfather say a racist thing in my life with him but according to my mom, 70 years ago she heard him use the N word. My grandparents were very decent people and I never saw or heard them say anything racist but I think there was at least some racism in their youth. Anyway, my point was my parents raised me not to be racist and now I’m sure I’ve probably evolved even more and have known more black and brown people than my parents and their parents combined. I’ve never seen anything racist out of my boys and my ex-wife and I taught them the opposite of racism as in fairness for and tolerance of all people.

Now, if your family descends from David Duke’s relatives, there’s a good chance you’re taught racism all of your life. Those chains are going to be really hard to break.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

Online
User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 2995
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Wed May 27, 2020 2:12 am

That's all great and it sounds like we've had a similar experience. I agree with you that individual change can happen within two generations, but we are individuals out of 7.5 billion people.

I can draw comparisons to COVID in that a large group of people seem to embrace ignorance. The "If it's my time to go, it's my time" type of people. They're selfish without really understanding how or why they're being selfish. Racism is a tool wielded by the most selfish. There are a lot of them in America, and around the World.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 5758
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Racism in the US

Post by ShelC » Wed May 27, 2020 3:41 am

Both videos are disgusting and disturbing. The officer should be in prison for murder; the Central Park woman lost her job, the dog and has been thoroughly dragged on social media and deservedly so.

More and more, you realize these aren't new or random instances. They're just being recorded now and shown to the world.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 10176
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Indy » Wed May 27, 2020 6:19 am

I agree that the key is exposure. I saw both of those videos and am still recovering from watching the one in Minny. It just hurts to the core. I don't know how true it is, but it seems as though that officer has killed before.

BigLewy
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:15 am

Re: Racism in the US

Post by BigLewy » Wed May 27, 2020 6:23 am

Indy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:19 am
I agree that the key is exposure. I saw both of those videos and am still recovering from watching the one in Minny. It just hurts to the core. I don't know how true it is, but it seems as though that officer has killed before.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm not sure I want to. It's tough for me because three of my lifelong friends have each been cops for over a decade, so I naturally want to lean on their side...but in this case, I can't see any justifying what this officer did. Even if the guy killed someone, he was in custody, and at least one other officer was there in case he tried to flee, attack, etc. All he had to do was put his knee in his back instead and this would most likely not even make the news. Such a sad situation. It's a shame that the 2-3% of the bad apples in the police force give a bad name to law enforcement everywhere.

If it's true that this cop has killed before....just wow.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 10176
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Indy » Wed May 27, 2020 6:30 am

BigLewy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:23 am
Indy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:19 am
I agree that the key is exposure. I saw both of those videos and am still recovering from watching the one in Minny. It just hurts to the core. I don't know how true it is, but it seems as though that officer has killed before.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm not sure I want to. It's tough for me because three of my lifelong friends have each been cops for over a decade, so I naturally want to lean on their side...but in this case, I can't see any justifying what this officer did. Even if the guy killed someone, he was in custody, and at least one other officer was there in case he tried to flee, attack, etc. All he had to do was put his knee in his back instead and this would most likely not even make the news. Such a sad situation. It's a shame that the 2-3% of the bad apples in the police force give a bad name to law enforcement everywhere.

If it's true that this cop has killed before....just wow.
I am torn about watching it. In one way I wish I hadn't seen it because of how much it affected me, but I feel like I needed to see it.

I think that the number of bad apples is much higher than 2-3%. I have law enforcement in my family, too. 2-3% may be the number that gets found out publicly, but the number of times it happens is so much higher.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 11113
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Mori Chu » Wed May 27, 2020 7:58 am

Those two incidents are so deeply saddening. Being black in America should not bring with it these kinds of risks to one's life and health. I read that the Minneapolis police department is 16x as likely to arrest a black man as a white man despite blacks being only 20% of the population of the city. Ridiculous. The fact that they can allow that to happen over years at a time is absolutely unconscionable.

I saw some tweets from a black engineer who I thought summarized it nicely. He said, the main problem is that in America exhibiting racism still does not consistently bring consequences. If it did, the behavior would stop. If these cops who consistently arrest more black men, or rough them up or kill them, got fired and punished, the behavior would stop. If people got strong punishments for falsely calling the cops on innocent black people, the behavior would decrease. If people lost their jobs or were shunned / banned for making racist comments or social media posts, the behavior would decrease. But in many cases nothing really happens. Lots and lots of racist content is posted and lots of racist behavior occurs every day and there's no consequence. And, of course, our President is deeply and demonstrably racist all the time and has millions of adoring followers for it.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 10176
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Indy » Wed May 27, 2020 8:32 am

I would be extremely curious to see a study on racism versus those people live nearly their entire life in the general area where they were born.

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 5758
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Racism in the US

Post by ShelC » Wed May 27, 2020 9:06 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:58 am
Those two incidents are so deeply saddening. Being black in America should not bring with it these kinds of risks to one's life and health. I read that the Minneapolis police department is 16x as likely to arrest a black man as a white man despite blacks being only 20% of the population of the city. Ridiculous. The fact that they can allow that to happen over years at a time is absolutely unconscionable.

I saw some tweets from a black engineer who I thought summarized it nicely. He said, the main problem is that in America exhibiting racism still does not consistently bring consequences. If it did, the behavior would stop. If these cops who consistently arrest more black men, or rough them up or kill them, got fired and punished, the behavior would stop. If people got strong punishments for falsely calling the cops on innocent black people, the behavior would decrease. If people lost their jobs or were shunned / banned for making racist comments or social media posts, the behavior would decrease. But in many cases nothing really happens. Lots and lots of racist content is posted and lots of racist behavior occurs every day and there's no consequence. And, of course, our President is deeply and demonstrably racist all the time and has millions of adoring followers for it.
I don't disagree but given where we are today, I think those measures, in a lot or even most instances, would only create more animosity and a greater backlash. IObviously there needs to be a lot more accountability for actions and words. Cops should hold themselves accountable rather than look the other way for fear of retaliation. I don't believe in the "ACAB" theory but a lot more vetting should be done into backgrounds and a lot better training/education should be required in order to become an officer. Can't have cops with neo-nazi beliefs, white supremacist tattoos, belonging to hate groups on facebook. Take it for what it's worth, but there's a photo of the Minnesota police officer wearing a MAGA hat circulating online. And of course that goes for those with extreme left views as well.

With social media, I don't think it's a 1st amendment issue. I don't think hate speech or baseless, bullshit conspiracy theories spreading misinformation/disinformation aimed at sowing discord or hate should be tolerated. I'm not sure we can go back now and "put the genie in the bottle" so to speak. The internet should've been regulated early on to head this kind of stuff of. Of course, now Trump says he's willing to punish or even "shut down" social media companies which look to "silence" conservative voices and opinions (ie, racists and conspiracy theorists). That's not to say all conservatives are racists or conspiracy theorists, but it easier for him and the right wingers to bunch it all together to gather support. And then there's Facebook, which knows its site is divisive and plays to our worst emotions and instincts, but decides not to do anything about it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mark-zuckerb ... 37623.html

Generally, I think racism is learned. Education is usually the best defense against it, at a young age.
Last edited by ShelC on Wed May 27, 2020 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 10176
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Indy » Wed May 27, 2020 9:45 am

agreed on racism being learned. you have to teach people to hate.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 3312
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Nodack » Wed May 27, 2020 9:50 am

I am so disappointed in humanity lately. It makes me sad.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 17267
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Superbone » Wed May 27, 2020 11:58 am

BigLewy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:23 am
Indy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:19 am
I agree that the key is exposure. I saw both of those videos and am still recovering from watching the one in Minny. It just hurts to the core. I don't know how true it is, but it seems as though that officer has killed before.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm not sure I want to. It's tough for me because three of my lifelong friends have each been cops for over a decade, so I naturally want to lean on their side...but in this case, I can't see any justifying what this officer did. Even if the guy killed someone, he was in custody, and at least one other officer was there in case he tried to flee, attack, etc. All he had to do was put his knee in his back instead and this would most likely not even make the news. Such a sad situation. It's a shame that the 2-3% of the bad apples in the police force give a bad name to law enforcement everywhere.

If it's true that this cop has killed before....just wow.
That's the thing though. There are great cops. This just happens to be one of the very horrible ones. I don't think it's a matter of taking sides. In general, I'm on the side of the police. You have to take it on a case by case basis. Even his fellow officers didn't do anything even with bystanders asking him to let the man breath. I know that's a bigger issue as they didn't want to pull rank but at some point, you have to make a stand. They are complicit in his murder.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 17267
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Superbone » Wed May 27, 2020 12:01 pm

Indy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:30 am
BigLewy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:23 am
Indy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:19 am
I agree that the key is exposure. I saw both of those videos and am still recovering from watching the one in Minny. It just hurts to the core. I don't know how true it is, but it seems as though that officer has killed before.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm not sure I want to. It's tough for me because three of my lifelong friends have each been cops for over a decade, so I naturally want to lean on their side...but in this case, I can't see any justifying what this officer did. Even if the guy killed someone, he was in custody, and at least one other officer was there in case he tried to flee, attack, etc. All he had to do was put his knee in his back instead and this would most likely not even make the news. Such a sad situation. It's a shame that the 2-3% of the bad apples in the police force give a bad name to law enforcement everywhere.

If it's true that this cop has killed before....just wow.
I am torn about watching it. In one way I wish I hadn't seen it because of how much it affected me, but I feel like I needed to see it.

I think that the number of bad apples is much higher than 2-3%. I have law enforcement in my family, too. 2-3% may be the number that gets found out publicly, but the number of times it happens is so much higher.
It affected me deeply too and is why I felt compelled to start this post. And then the other ridiculous thing on the same day.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 11113
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Mori Chu » Fri May 29, 2020 9:05 am

What a crazy day it is so far. Riots and looting and protesting in Minneapolis, and the President calls them "THUGS" and tweets, "When the looting starts, the shooting starts." He's going to incite a race war. This man is dangerous and needs to go.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 8797
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Split T » Fri May 29, 2020 1:28 pm

Saw tweets showing the contrast between how he responded to this vs the armed men protesting the shutdown in Michigan. Just blatant bias with pretty obvious racial connections.
Tyrese Haliburton • Killian Hayes • Kira Lewis Jr. • Devin Vassell • Patrick Williams • Aaron Nesmith • Theo Maledon • Paul Reed

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 6459
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Racism in the US

Post by Cap » Fri May 29, 2020 1:36 pm

The officer who killed George Floyd has been arrested and charged with murder.

Whether this will result in conviction and sentencing, I have no idea.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

Post Reply