Democratic Convention

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic Convention

Post by Mori Chu »

Sinema is burning a lot of bridges with the Dems right now. You have to figure if she keeps holding up or ends up derailing the infrastructure / Build Back Better bills, she'll get a fierce primary next time.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic Convention

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They are talking about a no confidence vote in her. I am not sure what that means besides just labeling her bad seed and maybe taking away her assignments.

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In2ition
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Re: Democratic Convention

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Sinema is really embracing the McCain role of being a maverick, but on the opposite party?
Let's Go Brandon! .
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic Convention

Post by Mori Chu »

In2ition wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:58 am
Sinema is really embracing the McCain role of being a maverick, but on the opposite party?
But McCain was a maverick because he had certain principles, issues he cared about, things he wanted to change. What does Sinema want? She won't say. She's not discussiong or negotiating in good faith. It seems likely that her rich donors have asked her to tank this bill, and so she's doing exactly that. There's no clear statement of principle or value here.

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In2ition
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Re: Democratic Convention

Post by In2ition »

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:06 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:58 am
Sinema is really embracing the McCain role of being a maverick, but on the opposite party?
But McCain was a maverick because he had certain principles, issues he cared about, things he wanted to change. What does Sinema want? She won't say. She's not discussiong or negotiating in good faith. It seems likely that her rich donors have asked her to tank this bill, and so she's doing exactly that. There's no clear statement of principle or value here.
I think that's fair. Idk if McCain was quite as righteous as he was portrayed though.
Let's Go Brandon! .
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Indy
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Re: Democratic Convention

Post by Indy »

In2ition wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:09 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:06 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:58 am
Sinema is really embracing the McCain role of being a maverick, but on the opposite party?
But McCain was a maverick because he had certain principles, issues he cared about, things he wanted to change. What does Sinema want? She won't say. She's not discussiong or negotiating in good faith. It seems likely that her rich donors have asked her to tank this bill, and so she's doing exactly that. There's no clear statement of principle or value here.
I think that's fair. Idk if McCain was quite as righteous as he was portrayed though.
Spoiler alert, he was not. Nobody is.

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Indy
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Re: Democratic Convention

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Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:37 am
Sinema is burning a lot of bridges with the Dems right now. You have to figure if she keeps holding up or ends up derailing the infrastructure / Build Back Better bills, she'll get a fierce primary next time.
She doesn't care about being primaried. She is cashing in big time and will be able to retire in peace, while taking 5 and 6 figure speaking gigs when she feels like it. She has 4 more years in office, and has already grown her net worth by 30x.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic Convention

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Everything depends on your point of view I guess. McCain blocked the Republicans from killing Obamacare. He didn’t even like Obamacare. He blocked it because Trump promised to repeal and replace Obamacare with something much better and much cheaper that covers all Americans. When it came time Trump and his fellow Republicans decided they just wanted to kill Obamacare and not replace it with anything. At least that’s what I got out of it. McCain rejected that.


Sienna says she is trying to be bipartisan. I get some of what she is fighting for. I just think bipartisanship is a list cause in America at this point in time. Dems want to eliminate the filibuster rule so they can pass a bunch of stuff with their tiny majority. Sienna had a point that if you do that you are also letting Republicans do a bunch of stuff if they ever get a tiny majority in the future. Midterms always favor the party out of power and Republicans could easily regain a majority right after the Dems kill the filibuster handing them a blank check to pass all kinds of things Fems wouldn’t like.

I was reading more about Sinema and her reasons and apparently she is in favor of most of the stuff in the infrastructure deal. She is just concerned about the price tag and favors a smaller deal.

I was also reading about the deal and the price is spread out over ten years and isn’t one lump sum.

Part of the deal is a push for electric cars. There is some huge incentives to buy electric. Up to $12,500 in incentives if you buy electric. I can see where Republicans would appose this. They don’t get a break buying a gas engine car and will feel like they are paying for that price break and being penalized for driving a gas car. Car makers are already going all in on electric already. I guess this will be the nail in the gas coffin.

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Indy
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Re: Democratic Convention

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Nodack wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am
Everything depends on your point of view I guess. McCain blocked the Republicans from killing Obamacare. He didn’t even like Obamacare. He blocked it because Trump promised to repeal and replace Obamacare with something much better and much cheaper that covers all Americans. When it came time Trump and his fellow Republicans decided they just wanted to kill Obamacare and not replace it with anything. At least that’s what I got out of it. McCain rejected that.


Sienna says she is trying to be bipartisan. I get some of what she is fighting for. I just think bipartisanship is a list cause in America at this point in time. Dems want to eliminate the filibuster rule so they can pass a bunch of stuff with their tiny majority. Sienna had a point that if you do that you are also letting Republicans do a bunch of stuff if they ever get a tiny majority in the future. Midterms always favor the party out of power and Republicans could easily regain a majority right after the Dems kill the filibuster handing them a blank check to pass all kinds of things Fems wouldn’t like.

I was reading more about Sinema and her reasons and apparently she is in favor of most of the stuff in the infrastructure deal. She is just concerned about the price tag and favors a smaller deal.

I was also reading about the deal and the price is spread out over ten years and isn’t one lump sum.

Part of the deal is a push for electric cars. There is some huge incentives to buy electric. Up to $12,500 in incentives if you buy electric. I can see where Republicans would appose this. They don’t get a break buying a gas engine car and will feel like they are paying for that price break and being penalized for driving a gas car. Car makers are already going all in on electric already. I guess this will be the nail in the gas coffin.
She was directly asked what price tag she is comfortable with, and she won't give an answer. And the price tag doesn't matter as much as people are saying, because it is completely paid for and won't add a dime to the debt. But that means people like Bezos and Musk have to pay taxes. And that is what she is against, because the pharma lobby and others like that are paying her to oppose it.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic Convention

Post by Nodack »

I don’t doubt it but, do you actually know they are paying her or are you assuming they are? She seems real easy to not like. I have written her a note at her site a while ago and told her that I will not be voting for her again because she is basically acting like she is a Republican. I really want to understand her a little more and was trying to give her the benefit of doubt. Her little curtsy at the minimum wage vote was immature.

I don’t actually believe the money is paid for. It will end up being added to the debt one way or the other. We do need to upgrade America and that’s expensive. I know some of the stuff in the Bill but, not all of it for sure. I am sure there is a crap load of pork in it too.

A lot of the super rich get away with not paying their fair share of taxes. Everyone hates taxes. I hate taxes but as an American looking at the debt I am willing to do whatever is necessary to get our deficit in check even if that means paying more taxes. Taxes ARE what pays our bills. All these tax breaks to help out Americans is a great way to win votes but, it does nothing to pay off our debt. 2.3 Trillion we paid to lose the Afghanistan war?

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Indy
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Re: Democratic Convention

Post by Indy »

It is well documented. This is from last week when she came out opposed to the bill around limiting prescription drug prices.
Big Pharma, medical firms donated $750K to Kyrsten Sinema — then she opposed drug bill
https://www.salon.com/2021/09/23/big-ph ... osed-bill/

This is from this week when she held a $6k/plate luncheon.
Kyrsten Sinema holding fundraiser with business lobby groups that want to kill Biden’s agenda--
Sinema is charging up to $5,800 to attend a 45-minute fundraiser with groups that mostly donate to Republicans
https://www.salon.com/2021/09/28/kyrste ... ns-agenda/

The Salon links were just the first that came up, not the only place reporting on it.

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