The GOP / RNC

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Mori Chu
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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by Mori Chu »

The idea that Dems didn't / haven't accepted Trump's 2016 win is preposterous. And the idea that Dems are stoking a civil war is even more laughable. But it's a standard tactic of bad guys to project, to accuse you of doing exactly what they're doing to you, as a way of dragging you down into the mud with them.

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Re: The GOP / RNC

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quoting guys that think climate change isn't real and refers to scientist as alarmists but also advocates for spraying salt water in the air to block out the sun... hmm.

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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by In2ition »

Who was the first to bring up the idea that a Civil War was looking more and more likely? Who kept pushing the idea, and been writing articles after articles that get posted here? If you believe it's been the many conservative posters here in the Politics forum posting this thought and/or posting with certainty the thoughts of the other side doing this, please correct me and show me this evidence. From what I've seen of conservative thought, this is a ridiculous notion that I do not agree with and do not agree with any type of political bloodshed in regards to a civil war.

I can not talk for everyone, but I certainly do not have any animosity towards Dems, Libs, Progressives, or anyone else on this forum. I also do not represent those supposedly 15% of Reps(from the Ray Dailo) that hope that the other side dies off. I wish all the best for all of you, even my most ardent critics or stans ;) . I am neither jealous of anyone else's success nor do I wish harm on them, and in fact I am happy for each of your success in life. I may not like Laker fans as a whole, but I have actually helped out a Laker fan channel on YouTube into growing. I do not wish the Laker's organization any type of luck or success though, haha.
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In2ition
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Re: The GOP / RNC

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Indy wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:19 pm
quoting guys that think climate change isn't real and refers to scientist as alarmists but also advocates for spraying salt water in the air to block out the sun... hmm.
Didn't Bill Gates recently have an experiment to block out the Sun totally rejected by a government when they thought it was highly dangerous?
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Re: The GOP / RNC

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idk but I wouldn't take his advice on climate change either.

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Nodack
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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by Nodack »

Who was the first to bring up the idea that a Civil War was looking more and more likely? Who kept pushing the idea, and been writing articles after articles that get posted here?
That’s like accusing a reporter of planning a bank robbery when he wrote an article about a gang busted planning a bank robbery.

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In2ition
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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by In2ition »

Nodack wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:38 am
Who was the first to bring up the idea that a Civil War was looking more and more likely? Who kept pushing the idea, and been writing articles after articles that get posted here?
That’s like accusing a reporter of planning a bank robbery when he wrote an article about a gang busted planning a bank robbery.
You think there are conservatives all over the country organizing to bring on a civil war? Come on, Nodack. That's some crazy DAnon conspiracy theory, and major mass formation psychosis going on. Listen to yourself and think logically on what that would take.
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Mori Chu
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Re: The GOP / RNC

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Man beats wife.
Wife says she's going to leave him.
Man: "Now who's the one destroying our marriage?"

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In2ition
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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by In2ition »

Yes, thank you for informing us of something that's not true and is never going to happen. I am now prepared for something that will never happen, because it's ridiculous fear porn fiction.
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Nodack
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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by Nodack »

In2ition wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:28 am
Nodack wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:38 am
Who was the first to bring up the idea that a Civil War was looking more and more likely? Who kept pushing the idea, and been writing articles after articles that get posted here?
That’s like accusing a reporter of planning a bank robbery when he wrote an article about a gang busted planning a bank robbery.
You think there are conservatives all over the country organizing to bring on a civil war? Come on, Nodack. That's some crazy DAnon conspiracy theory, and major mass formation psychosis going on. Listen to yourself and think logically on what that would take.
I think there are conservatives all over the country who believe Trump won and that the entire planet conspired to steal the election from Trump. You have seen the numbers.

53% of Republicans view Trump as true U.S. president -Reuters/Ipso
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53-rep ... 021-05-24/

I saw Trump try every trick in the book to steal the election. He tried to extort the Ukraine in an attempt to tarnish Biden’s image and was busted and impeached. Because of Covid, Dems pushed for more mail in voting so people wouldn’t be in long lines together spreading Covid just to vote. Trump decided to tell his supporters to risk Covid and vote in person only and then installed a Trump yes man in charge of the Postal Service who promptly started dismantling mail sorting machines and getting rid of mail drop boxes in an attempt to neuter mail in voting. He was busted for that too. He lost and claimed fraud everywhere by everyone. He pressured local Republican election officials to “find” him enough votes. He and the Republican party tried to get election officials to just ignore the vote count and just certify him as President. They refused and ever since then those people have been getting replaced by pro Trump people. In places where the Secretary of State has control over elections, Republicans have been changing the laws to put Republican politicians in charge of elections instead of Secretary of State’s. They filed dozens of court motions to stop reverse the outcome and were told by every court from top to bottom that they had zero evidence. Trump tried to get Pence to just not certify the election as a last minute hail mary and when that didn’t work he called a rally on certification day and told them to go to the Capital and “fight like hell!” Rudy called for a “trial by combat”. That was scary but that too failed.

I know you think everything I just posted was fake in2 because all the media is fake and they made up all of that. You can believe what you want. If Republicans do attempt a coup like they tried the last time and are successful this time, there will be a civil war and you will blame Dems and I will blame Cons.


47% of West Coast Dems, 66% of Southern Republicans Want to Secede From U.S.
https://www.newsweek.com/47-west-coast- ... us-1609875

Is the US headed for another Civil War?
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... civil-war/
A 2021 national survey by pollster John Zogby found a plurality of Americans (46%) believed a future civil war was likely, 43% felt it was unlikely, and 11% were not sure. War seemed more likely for younger people (53%) than older ones (31%), and for those residing in the South (49%) and Central/Great Lakes region (48%) relative to those in the East (39%).

Republican Rep. Madison Cawthorn of North Carolina made a false claim regarding election integrity and said, “If our election systems continue to be rigged, then it’s going to lead to one place and that’s bloodshed. … There’s nothing I would dread doing more than having to pick up arms against a fellow American.” (Translation: “It would be a shame if false election claims cause a civil war.”) These kinds of remarks should not be taken lightly.


https://www.bu.edu/articles/2019/are-we ... civil-war/
Rasmussen Reports found that 31 percent of probable US voters surveyed believe “it’s likely that the United States will experience a second civil war sometime in the next five years.”

Iowa Republican Congressman Steve King recently posted a meme warning that red states have “8 trillion bullets” in the event of a civil war.

In the coming second American Civil War, which side are you on?
https://www.salon.com/2021/11/04/in-the ... re-you-on/
A recent public opinion poll by the University of Virginia Center for Politics finds that a majority of Trump voters want to secede from the Union. Alarmingly, nearly as many Biden voters, 41 percent, also feel it may be "time to split the country." This is part of a larger pattern; other polls and research have come to similar conclusions.

It's important to resist false equivalence and superficial analysis here. It may be true that a large percentage of both Democrats and Republicans are willing to consider seceding from the United States, but their reasons and motivations are very different.

Today's Republican Party has, in practice, largely surrendered to neofascism and white supremacy — currents that were not far below its surface for many years. It has embraced and condoned the violence of the Jan. 6 insurrection, and has come very close to directly endorsing terrorism against its perceived political enemies.

For Republicans, America's multiracial democracy is anathema to their values and must be destroyed. Public opinion research has shown that tens of millions of white Republicans, especially Trump supporters, view Joe Biden as an illegitimate president who should be removed from power by whatever means necessary.

For decades the right-wing propaganda machine has used stochastic terrorism to radicalize its public toward ever more extreme views. In the Age of Trump, that has devolved into overt and direct appeals to violence in defense of an imagined "real" America. In practice, this has led to hate crimes and other acts of violence against nonwhite people, immigrants and other targeted groups.

When Democrats or progressives report a desire to secede from the country, they are seeking refuge and self-preservation. To suggest any equivalence between that desire and the overtly violent yearnings of the Republican-fascist movement is intellectually dishonest and morally bankrupt.

A large percentage of Republicans and the larger white right actually believe that they are in an existential struggle for survival against Black and brown people and "illegal aliens" who want to "replace them," sinister "secularists" who want to outlaw Christianity, "critical race theory" aimed at brainwashing their children, a "liberal media" that deliberately lies to them, and a cabal of "elites" and "socialists" who are treasonous and determined to destroy the "real" America.

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In2ition
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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by In2ition »

Nodack wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:17 pm
In2ition wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:28 am
Nodack wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:38 am
Who was the first to bring up the idea that a Civil War was looking more and more likely? Who kept pushing the idea, and been writing articles after articles that get posted here?
That’s like accusing a reporter of planning a bank robbery when he wrote an article about a gang busted planning a bank robbery.
You think there are conservatives all over the country organizing to bring on a civil war? Come on, Nodack. That's some crazy DAnon conspiracy theory, and major mass formation psychosis going on. Listen to yourself and think logically on what that would take.
I think there are conservatives all over the country who believe Trump won and that the entire planet conspired to steal the election from Trump. You have seen the numbers.

53% of Republicans view Trump as true U.S. president -Reuters/Ipso
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53-rep ... 021-05-24/
Yes, there are going to be these people, this is nothing new. It's not going to go away, but it's also not going to turn into a civil war. Think about what it would involve. It wouldn't be North vs. South, "IF" it was red states vs. blue states, it too messy for that to happen. It's also not going to be red counties vs. blue counties. The divide is so intertwined, it would be neighbor vs. neighbor and brother vs. brother, son vs. father, mother vs. daughter, and coworker vs. coworker. In most cases, you wouldn't even know what side one person to the next is on. There is no direct uniforms that would distinguish between each other.

Then, what would happen? Most likely the Federal government would come in with the military and national guard and declare Marshall Law. This would be very difficult for the entire nation and every city and town. If the government decided that they didn't have enough troops to handle the entire US, then they would ask for help from the UN. I don't think that the UN has enough troops. This also opens the US up to be easily attacked by outside forces while all their focus is on trying to squash this civil war between people that would normally be friends. Think, man. It's insane and beyond dumb shallow thinking. That's the same shallow thought process that rednecks without brains do too.

If someone was intent on destroying the country to be a minor power on the planet, which is what is a claimed goal of the WEF, and be able to completely control the US so that it could be culled, this sounds more like it would benefit them. Now, who wants depopulation and destruction of the inconvenient constitution? If you think Reps, Cons or Trump want this, then I'm going to be honest with you, that is a completely moronic thought. I don't think anyone wants this, no matter what side of the isle you are on, with the exceptions of the anarchists and Marxists that have said that's exactly what they want.
Nodack wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:17 pm
I saw Trump try every trick in the book to steal the election. He tried to extort the Ukraine in an attempt to tarnish Biden’s image and was busted and impeached. Because of Covid, Dems pushed for more mail in voting so people wouldn’t be in long lines together spreading Covid just to vote. Trump decided to tell his supporters to risk Covid and vote in person only and then installed a Trump yes man in charge of the Postal Service who promptly started dismantling mail sorting machines and getting rid of mail drop boxes in an attempt to neuter mail in voting. He was busted for that too. He lost and claimed fraud everywhere by everyone. He pressured local Republican election officials to “find” him enough votes. He and the Republican party tried to get election officials to just ignore the vote count and just certify him as President. They refused and ever since then those people have been getting replaced by pro Trump people. In places where the Secretary of State has control over elections, Republicans have been changing the laws to put Republican politicians in charge of elections instead of Secretary of State’s. They filed dozens of court motions to stop reverse the outcome and were told by every court from top to bottom that they had zero evidence. Trump tried to get Pence to just not certify the election as a last minute hail mary and when that didn’t work he called a rally on certification day and told them to go to the Capital and “fight like hell!” Rudy called for a “trial by combat”. That was scary but that too failed.

I know you think everything I just posted was fake in2 because all the media is fake and they made up all of that. You can believe what you want. If Republicans do attempt a coup like they tried the last time and are successful this time, there will be a civil war and you will blame Dems and I will blame Cons.
I'm not saying that what you post is fake, as it's a real story, but what's fake is the real threat of it happening. It's room temperature IQ type thinking, and really is fear porn that plays with a certain gullible section of their audience.

They didn't "try to attempt a coup". That's ridiculous on it's face. An unarmed coup where they didn't take over anything that would be needed to be taken over. That's the lamest attempt of a coup possible. It's just fuel to the totalitarian left to spew fear porn over and over. Like I've said before, but apparently hasn't sunk in yet, you can get a compilation of many Dems using "fight like Hell!!!" in their speeches, even in the last yr, and I would bet that they do it in this next yr too.

The election questions haven't gone away, and they aren't going to either. New stuff comes out all the time that has shown ballot harvesting and stuffing the ballot boxes, where they even have a whistle blower that came clean and said that he was paid $45K for the ballots he put in the boxes in GA. They caught him through video that was on the ballot boxes, and corresponding cell phone data location. Idk if anything is going to come of this, but they found it happened in GA and AZ. I don't know if any of the election shenanigan's are going to be addressed, so I decided to not post any of the stuff that's reported. Only time will tell, and it's a slow moving clock, imo.
Nodack wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:17 pm
47% of West Coast Dems, 66% of Southern Republicans Want to Secede From U.S.
https://www.newsweek.com/47-west-coast- ... us-1609875

Is the US headed for another Civil War?
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... civil-war/
A 2021 national survey by pollster John Zogby found a plurality of Americans (46%) believed a future civil war was likely, 43% felt it was unlikely, and 11% were not sure. War seemed more likely for younger people (53%) than older ones (31%), and for those residing in the South (49%) and Central/Great Lakes region (48%) relative to those in the East (39%).

Republican Rep. Madison Cawthorn of North Carolina made a false claim regarding election integrity and said, “If our election systems continue to be rigged, then it’s going to lead to one place and that’s bloodshed. … There’s nothing I would dread doing more than having to pick up arms against a fellow American.” (Translation: “It would be a shame if false election claims cause a civil war.”) These kinds of remarks should not be taken lightly.


https://www.bu.edu/articles/2019/are-we ... civil-war/
Rasmussen Reports found that 31 percent of probable US voters surveyed believe “it’s likely that the United States will experience a second civil war sometime in the next five years.”

Iowa Republican Congressman Steve King recently posted a meme warning that red states have “8 trillion bullets” in the event of a civil war.
Yes, there are real divisions on what people think. There are people that certainly feel marginalized by "the other side". You either try to get people together and agree on things or just try to separate them over and over and divide them. Who does that help? Seriously, who is helped by you and I and everyone divided and divided again and again? Does it make people easier to control when they are in smaller segments? Is it easier to demonize people by whatever subdivisions that are created? What's after that? Does it make it easier to democratically decide to eliminate segments of the population? Who does that benefit? It happens on both sides, and I'm not saying one side does it over the other. It's ridiculous.

Nodack wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:17 pm
In the coming second American Civil War, which side are you on?
https://www.salon.com/2021/11/04/in-the ... re-you-on/
A recent public opinion poll by the University of Virginia Center for Politics finds that a majority of Trump voters want to secede from the Union. Alarmingly, nearly as many Biden voters, 41 percent, also feel it may be "time to split the country." This is part of a larger pattern; other polls and research have come to similar conclusions.

It's important to resist false equivalence and superficial analysis here. It may be true that a large percentage of both Democrats and Republicans are willing to consider seceding from the United States, but their reasons and motivations are very different.

Today's Republican Party has, in practice, largely surrendered to neofascism and white supremacy — currents that were not far below its surface for many years. It has embraced and condoned the violence of the Jan. 6 insurrection, and has come very close to directly endorsing terrorism against its perceived political enemies.

For Republicans, America's multiracial democracy is anathema to their values and must be destroyed. Public opinion research has shown that tens of millions of white Republicans, especially Trump supporters, view Joe Biden as an illegitimate president who should be removed from power by whatever means necessary.

For decades the right-wing propaganda machine has used stochastic terrorism to radicalize its public toward ever more extreme views. In the Age of Trump, that has devolved into overt and direct appeals to violence in defense of an imagined "real" America. In practice, this has led to hate crimes and other acts of violence against nonwhite people, immigrants and other targeted groups.

When Democrats or progressives report a desire to secede from the country, they are seeking refuge and self-preservation. To suggest any equivalence between that desire and the overtly violent yearnings of the Republican-fascist movement is intellectually dishonest and morally bankrupt.

A large percentage of Republicans and the larger white right actually believe that they are in an existential struggle for survival against Black and brown people and "illegal aliens" who want to "replace them," sinister "secularists" who want to outlaw Christianity, "critical race theory" aimed at brainwashing their children, a "liberal media" that deliberately lies to them, and a cabal of "elites" and "socialists" who are treasonous and determined to destroy the "real" America.
This is another really stupid article, but of course it's exactly what I would expect from Salon. Turn this around and it would be panned by you as stupid. It's just another attempt to divide people, and act like they are just reporting. Let's paint everyone in either side with false claims. Holy cow, it should be outrageous to everyone. It's what my boys would call smooth brained thinking.

Let me ask you, do you think I'm against a multiracial democracy?
Do you think I have or am going to do hate crimes against nonwhite people?
Have I said that Biden should be removed by "whatever means necessary"?
Do you think I embrace terrorism against my political enemies?

If you think any of those things, that are claimed in the article to paint all Republicans in this light, is "YES" and applied to me, then you need to do some serious soul searching.

If there was a real uprising, it would be almost the entire country(vast majority, which is like 85% of the population) vs. the oppressors, and we don't seem to be in any type of majority agreement on any type of oppression right now, or in the conceivable near future. If some power came into being that decided that you, Nodack had to worship their particular god, think exactly like they think you should think, and if you didn't, you would lose everything and all ability to buy and sell, I would be right next to you protecting your rights and saying, "Hell NO!!".
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Indy
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Re: The GOP / RNC

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The divide is so intertwined, it would be neighbor vs. neighbor and brother vs. brother, son vs. father, mother vs. daughter
umm, that is exactly how the first civil war in this country was described.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_a ... onfederacy.

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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by In2ition »

Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:52 pm
The divide is so intertwined, it would be neighbor vs. neighbor and brother vs. brother, son vs. father, mother vs. daughter
umm, that is exactly how the first civil war in this country was described.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_a ... onfederacy.
And yet, there were direct lines of delineations, as in Southern states vs. Northern states and loyalties to those. I thought you would know the difference and not point that out. I actually thought of you and that exact phrasing about the Civil War when I was typing that. But damn.
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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by Indy »

In2ition wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:57 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:52 pm
The divide is so intertwined, it would be neighbor vs. neighbor and brother vs. brother, son vs. father, mother vs. daughter
umm, that is exactly how the first civil war in this country was described.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_a ... onfederacy.
And yet, there were direct lines of delineations, as in Southern states vs. Northern states and loyalties to those. I thought you would know the difference and not point that out. I actually thought of you and that exact phrasing about the Civil War when I was typing that. But damn.
:roll: It wasn't as simple as north vs south, though. Virginia is further north than Kentucky, for example. And it isn't like everyone in Virginia was for slavery. The rich people in the east owned slaves and huge plantations, so those folks wanted to join the traitors. But the working class out in western Virginia weren't slave holders, and basically said you can't force us to join your treasonous acts, so we will secede from "Virginia" and form West Virginia and join the Union side.

And I think every single state in the country contributed people to both armies, Union and Confederate. Just because you were in Mississippi didn't mean you were fighting with the Confederates. If you believed slavery shouldn't be a thing in this country, you could fight for it, while your neighbor/brother/whatever fought to keep slavery going.

it isn't very different than the political divide we have now. Although the secession would likely be by state, every state would have internal battles with their own residents.

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Re: The GOP / RNC

Post by In2ition »

Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:37 pm
In2ition wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:57 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:52 pm
The divide is so intertwined, it would be neighbor vs. neighbor and brother vs. brother, son vs. father, mother vs. daughter
umm, that is exactly how the first civil war in this country was described.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_a ... onfederacy.
And yet, there were direct lines of delineations, as in Southern states vs. Northern states and loyalties to those. I thought you would know the difference and not point that out. I actually thought of you and that exact phrasing about the Civil War when I was typing that. But damn.
:roll: It wasn't as simple as north vs south, though. Virginia is further north than Kentucky, for example. And it isn't like everyone in Virginia was for slavery. The rich people in the east owned slaves and huge plantations, so those folks wanted to join the traitors. But the working class out in western Virginia weren't slave holders, and basically said you can't force us to join your treasonous acts, so we will secede from "Virginia" and form West Virginia and join the Union side.

And I think every single state in the country contributed people to both armies, Union and Confederate. Just because you were in Mississippi didn't mean you were fighting with the Confederates. If you believed slavery shouldn't be a thing in this country, you could fight for it, while your neighbor/brother/whatever fought to keep slavery going.

it isn't very different than the political divide we have now. Although the secession would likely be by state, every state would have internal battles with their own residents.
That's true, but even General Lee was against slavery, but still felt the pull of loyalty to his state. it's very different than it is today, and it would be very difficult to see things divide in the same way. I could see the Eastern part of California succeed from the coast, and you could have counties outside of the cities succeed or vice versa, as those are the strongest differences come in those locations. I still think it's an insane thought that is really being pushed, but mostly seeing the talk of civil war coming from the people that don't have any idea on how it would divide up and play out.
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Re: The GOP / RNC

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You got this, Nodack.
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Re: The GOP / RNC

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In2ition wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:11 am
Yeah, I wouldn't say that everything is just fine and we should just move on from the Trump years. I just don't agree that Civil War is going to happen. I think things are going to get much worse before they get better.
Then, we are not too far off...at least on this point. How I would define a civil war is more like mass assassinations and terrorist attacks than an actual Blue vs. Grey conflict. Although it is possible to see the US devolving into Yugoslavia.

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Re: The GOP / RNC

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This isn't going to help my case either. Why is this happening? Does Biden expect something or is this nothing?

Or is it the 33% approval rating & 53% disapproval rating?

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Re: The GOP / RNC

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They just introduced a new department. The Department of Domestic Terrorism. Maybe they suggested the barricades.

I picture a Civil War would be mostly targeted attacks on perceived enemies. Sort of like what has been going on already to election officials who were named by Trump as being responsible for helping steal the election. So far it has been mostly threats and people coming to their homes and pounding on their doors. I picture those “Patriot” groups secretly getting together and planning quick strikes on enemies and then vanishing into the night after their attacks. They called them insurgents in Iraq.

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Re: The GOP / RNC

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Seems unlikely, since all calls and all communication on the internet is highly monitored. They would investigate the chatter and monitor it closer. Is this an idea you got from a book or movie? Secret "Patriot" groups mysteriously formed to run special forces type actions to assassinate political opponents and perceived enemies? I can't really see it, and it feels like what a political opponent would do to paint all of their opponents as "the danger". Didn't Biden pretty much call anyone that disagrees with his domestic policies as enemies & traitors?
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