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Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:41 pm
by In2ition
Nodack wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:27 pm
They have to do whatever Trumps wants them to do or face the Maga wrath.
Yes, take the vax, get the booster. Really pushing these Maga to do whatever he says, makes sense.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:27 pm
by Nodack
Here is part of it.
Are We Really Facing a Second Civil War?
In Toronto’s Globe and Mail, Thomas Homer-Dixon, a scholar who studies violent conflict, recently urged the Canadian government to prepare for an American implosion. “By 2025, American democracy could collapse, causing extreme domestic political instability, including widespread civil violence,” he wrote. “By 2030, if not sooner, the country could be governed by a right-wing dictatorship.” As John Harris writes in Politico, “Serious people now invoke ‘Civil War’ not as metaphor but as literal precedent.”
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:34 pm
by In2ition
That's rich, coming from Canada, where they are arrest business owners and pastors for having their restaurant open or church services. Where their authoritarian rules are out of control and getting worse. Trudeau is running it like a dictatorship.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:40 am
by virtual9mm
In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:45 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:18 pm
holy shit you actually believe that what they were doing is right and justified. I think that answered your question, v9.
Is it not their right to challenge electorates? Do you somehow think that was unprecedented? There has been ample annomolies of things that have looked like fraud had happened.
This was what I was looking for, thanks everyone especially in2 for being straightforward. I think I will stick around in Hong Kong, where I feel my personal safety is less at risk.
Regarding RINOs I was a registered Republican until I switched registration in 2020. Although in practice I probably have been voting Democrat since 2004. But that isn't quite true, either, since I voted McCain over Obama.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:42 am
by virtual9mm
In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:34 pm
That's rich, coming from Canada, where they are arrest business owners and pastors for having their restaurant open or church services. Where their authoritarian rules are out of control and getting worse. Trudeau is running it like a dictatorship.
If HK gets too hot, my bolthole will be Vancouver.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:45 am
by Superbone
I wouldn't make your decision based on one guy, virt.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:46 am
by Mori Chu
In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:34 pm
That's rich, coming from Canada, where they are arrest business owners and pastors for having their restaurant open or church services. Where their authoritarian rules are out of control and getting worse. Trudeau is running it like a dictatorship.
My understanding is that they have a law in place barring large in-person gatherings due to COVID. That includes large in-person church services. Some pastors knowingly broke that law, so they were arrested. What is the problem with that?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 28490.html
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:45 am
by virtual9mm
Superbone wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:45 am
I wouldn't make your decision based on one guy, virt.
Naw, it is a decision I made a while back and review on a periodic basis. What scares me more than the all too common themes that In2 mentioned is the mindset among the educated and well-to-do that everything is just fine and that we should just move on from the Trump years. The art of wishful thinking is perhaps what will do the most to do us all in.
The Republican playbook seems straight out of the Maoist one, believe it or not. And we saw where that led China -- the horrors of the Cultural Revolution. I want no part of that.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:03 pm
by Superbone
virtual9mm wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:45 am
Superbone wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:45 am
I wouldn't make your decision based on one guy, virt.
Naw, it is a decision I made a while back and review on a periodic basis. What scares me more than the all too common themes that In2 mentioned is
the mindset among the educated and well-to-do that everything is just fine and that we should just move on from the Trump years. The art of wishful thinking is perhaps what will do the most to do us all in.
The Republican playbook seems straight out of the Maoist one, believe it or not. And we saw where that led China -- the horrors of the Cultural Revolution. I want no part of that.
I don't see much of that.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:25 pm
by In2ition
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:46 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:34 pm
That's rich, coming from Canada, where they are arrest business owners and pastors for having their restaurant open or church services. Where their authoritarian rules are out of control and getting worse. Trudeau is running it like a dictatorship.
My understanding is that they have a law in place barring large in-person gatherings due to COVID. That includes large in-person church services. Some pastors knowingly broke that law, so they were arrested. What is the problem with that?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 28490.html
It's a mandate, not a law. I am for non-violent civil disobedience when the mandates are unconstitutional, which they are. It's just more gestopo tactics that are deployed. Are you for big businesses, while not caring about small businesses? How many small businesses were closed forever during the lockouts? Alot of them small family businesses. You think strip clubs and liquor stores are essential and should be open, but churches are too dangerous? That's f'd up Nazi thinking.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:18 am
by virtual9mm
Superbone wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:03 pm
virtual9mm wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:45 am
Superbone wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:45 am
I wouldn't make your decision based on one guy, virt.
Naw, it is a decision I made a while back and review on a periodic basis. What scares me more than the all too common themes that In2 mentioned is
the mindset among the educated and well-to-do that everything is just fine and that we should just move on from the Trump years. The art of wishful thinking is perhaps what will do the most to do us all in.
The Republican playbook seems straight out of the Maoist one, believe it or not. And we saw where that led China -- the horrors of the Cultural Revolution. I want no part of that.
I don't see much of that.
Can you tell me more about what you see? Thanks!
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:11 am
by In2ition
Yeah, I wouldn't say that everything is just fine and we should just move on from the Trump years. I just don't agree that Civil War is going to happen. I think things are going to get much worse before they get better.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:13 pm
by Superbone
In2ition wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:11 am
Yeah, I wouldn't say that everything is just fine and we should just move on from the Trump years.
I just don't agree that Civil War is going to happen. I think things are going to get much worse before they get better.
I sure hope not! But yeah, I don't know how anybody could think that everything is fine and just move on. When nearly half the population believes THE BIG LIE, how could anybody think we're fine? Been seeing lots of specials and talks about this. We just passed the January 6th riot anniversary.
You could very well be right that things will get much worse before they get better.
The GOP / RNC
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:18 pm
by 3rdside
It’s not Carl and Leo, but some guy called Ray Dalio puts the odds of civil war at 30%.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... years.html
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:00 pm
by Superbone
Ray Dalio is a famous American investor.
The GOP / RNC
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:19 pm
by 3rdside
Thanks for the intel
The GOP / RNC
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:28 pm
by 3rdside
Possibly some background required - I’m in finance, some of what I do is analytics related, and ray dalio is the godfather of predictive analytics in finance … if anyone has a decent shot at forecasting these things, it’s him.
Carl and Leo, and various other idiots on you tube and Twitter, are in2’s go to sources for insight and evidence … it was a play on that iow.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:54 pm
by Superbone
3rdside wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:28 pm
Possibly some background required - I’m in finance, some of what I do is analytics related, and ray dalio is the godfather of predictive analytics in finance … if anyone has a decent shot at forecasting these things, it’s him.
Carl and Leo, and various other idiots on you tube and Twitter, are in2’s go to sources for insight and evidence … it was a play on that iow.
OK, now I get “some guy”. Thanks.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:36 am
by In2ition
Tbh, I had never listened to "Carl and Leo" before. I wasn't even aware what their names were until this was pointed out, haha. It seems that 3rd is aware of them much more than I am. More power to him. I thought it was more of a comedic point, but also a
small sample of how
some people outside of the US see the things that are happening in the US.
It was an interesting read on the Ray Dalio opinion. Do you agree with his assessment? I wasn't exactly sure by your own response.
Here is another take on the talk of Civil War. Whether you agree with all, some or none is up to each person.
Sorry, Democrats: Civil War isn’t likely — even if you’re trying to provoke one
By Steven F. Hayward
January 7, 2022
https://nypost.com/2022/01/07/sorry-dem ... ovoke-one/
Let’s set the scene: American democracy is said to be under threat from a political party that questions the legitimacy and outcome of a presidential election, that incites and justifies lawless “insurrectionist” actions and undermines American democratic institutions and processes, threatening the continued existence of the Constitution itself. If this state of affairs continues unabated, experts claim, the United States might well lapse into a second Civil War, as argued in Barbara F. Walter’s new book “How Civil Wars Start.”
Yes — that’s a pretty good description of the Democratic Party. You were expecting something else around the anniversary of Jan. 6?
Let’s do the checklist. A Washington Post/University of Maryland poll in 2017 found that 67% of Democrats and 69% of Hillary Clinton voters said Donald Trump was not a legitimately elected president, and Hillary herself told CBS News that Trump was not a “legitimate president” because he stole the 2016 election. Three years of contentious and debilitating investigations into what we now know was a phony Democrat-created story followed. But now that Republicans make similar claims about an anomalous election, liberals have caught a case of the vapors and say it is a “threat to democracy.”
And about that “insurrection”: Would that be the 1992 riots in Los Angeles that Democratic Rep. Maxine Waters praised with that term? What about the violent riots of the summer of 2020, which leading Democrats and much of the media called “mostly peaceful” and the legitimate voice of the people despite billions of dollars in damage and dozens of deaths from the violence? Maybe they were just following the lead of Baltimore’s former Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, who declared during that city’s 2015 riots that “we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well.”
As for the Constitution and long-established democratic processes, which party is it that argues for wholesale changes to the Constitution? That wants to pack the Supreme Court? That wants to jettison century-old rules of the Senate to make it a purely majoritarian body? Admit new states to tilt the partisan balance in Washington? What changes to the Constitution are Republicans demanding exactly? A balanced-budget amendment is about the only one — hardly a regime-shaking idea.
A certain consistency deserves to be noted here. Trump was not the first Republican president to face “The Resistance” from Democrats. It was, after all, the refusal of the Democratic Party to abide by the results of a free election in 1860 that led to our first Civil War, so why change modes now?
The hysteria among Democrats over the shambolic riot at the Capitol a year ago reveals not only the hypocrisy of the left but also its deep insecurity, ideological hollowness and what psychologists call “projection,” that is, attributing to others what is going on in your own mind.
Democrats can take a patronizing attitude toward the violence and destruction from the far left because it does not take the far left seriously, while at the same time sympathizing with the far left to some extent out of liberal guilt. But a single outburst of lawlessness from the right, foolishly tolerated if not encouraged by President Donald Trump, shakes liberals to their core not simply because it is so unexpected but because it controverts their core theory of the universe.
If you think that you are on “the side of history” but events don’t cooperate with this lazy progressive narrative, you will be pitched into an existential crisis. This outlook cannot abide the fact that we have lived in a 50/50 nation for nearly 30 years now and are likely to continue to be closely divided for a long time to come. Progressive leftists cannot understand or accept this (or any) level of dissent.
The point is: The true intolerance in America resides overwhelmingly on the left today.
The left’s concern trolling over a potential civil war can be seen as a sequel of their obsession with what should be called “coup porn” over the events of Jan. 6. Recall that the cities that boarded up their downtowns before the 2020 election feared violence from Democrats if Trump had won, as indeed occurred after the 2016 election.
The foolish Jan. 6 mob action allowed the left to flip the script and project their own toleration of violence onto Republicans, though as usual the impulse to hyperbole has taken over. If Jan. 6 hadn’t happened, the left would have had to invent it. Now it is going to become the left’s Saint Crispin’s Day for decades to come.
Barbara Walter, perhaps the chief civil war re-enactor of the moment, confesses to being “really happy” on Jan. 6, telling the London Times recently that “this was the gift that America needed to wake up because those of us who were sounding the alarm had been getting nowhere with it.” A gift? More like a grift for the left.
How exactly the QAnon shaman and other unarmed rioters could have ever succeeded in preventing Joe Biden’s accession to the presidency on Jan. 20, or “toppling the Constitution,” has never been seriously explained, which may be one reason not a single person arrested for Jan. 6 acts has been charged with insurrection or sedition.
As coups go, it was pathetic: There were no seizures of radio and TV stations, detention of officials, control of transportation and armories or other hallmarks of a real coup. Never mind that America’s separation of powers and federalism — features of American government that the left generally dislikes and wishes to replace — make a traditional power-grabbing coup nearly impossible to succeed.
That the electoral vote count proceeded later in the day on Jan. 6 testifies to the resilience of American democracy, not its fragility.
The giddy talk of civil war trivializes our divisions, which are real and deep. It is hard to maintain a sense of common citizenship when we increasingly see each other as utterly alien. But projections of a new civil war are overwrought. For one thing, we lack the sectional geographical divide that was central to our actual Civil War and a single, central issue over which compromise became impossible.
Walter predicts something more like guerilla war instead of a real civil war with localized terrorist acts. (Once again we can draw on the violent history of the new left in the 1960s for a precedent — another case of leftist projection.)
It is more likely that Americans will continue the accelerating process of self-sorting. Americans are moving in large numbers to states more congenial to their political and social views (mostly from blue to red states) or forming enclaves within red and blue states.
Some of the ideological divides can be ameliorated by reinvigorating federalism: Let Vermont be Vermont, and let Idaho be Idaho. The possibility of “terrorist acts” that Walter predicts would be diminished substantially through reinvigorated federalism.
Of course we know who is against this: the very same people warning of a civil war. If a new civil war does come, it will be on account of the intransigence of the same party that started the first one.
Steven F. Hayward is a resident scholar at the Institute of Governmental Studies at UC Berkeley.
Re: The GOP / RNC
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:17 am
by Nodack
Hillary conceded the day after the election. Trump still hasn’t.
Hillary was pissed the FBI released a statement 11 days before the election that they found more emails. They turned out to be nothing but, the damage had already been done. She was pissed that Russia was actively trying to help Trump win. That’s the extent of her election fraud complaints.
Trump claimed pretty much anyone that didn’t vote for him was in on the steal. The FBI, DOJ, US Courts, Venezuela, Italy, Postal Service, poll workers, Republican governors, Media, Pence. You name it, everyone was in on it. It was all a huge conspiracy by everyone to steal the election from him. He doesn’t have a shred of proof but, he says everyone knows it is true because he said it.
Dems trying to provoke a Civil War? That gets a huge LOL from me.