2020 Election Thread

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Nodack
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Anti-Trump Republicans endorsing vulnerable Democrats to prevent GOP takeover
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5 ... revent-gop

A group of anti-Trump Republicans on Thursday endorsed a slate of Democrats and centrist Republicans in the 2022 midterms to fight against the former president’s hold on the party.

The Renew America Movement (RAM) announced it is backing a slew of lawmakers running for reelection. The group was founded by a group of moderates within the GOP after the Jan. 6 insurrection, which was fueled by then-President Trump’s lies about the election being stolen in November.

“There is an urgent effort by Republicans and former Republicans to stem the tide of anti-democratic and lie-based Republican leaders in congress before it’s too late,” RAM said in an announcement.




Anti-democratic lie-based Republicans

Catchy slogan

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3rdside
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Nodack wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:03 pm
All those other commie countries like the UK have universal healthcare paid for mostly by taxes that their citizens pay. Yes, their taxes are higher. Every single person in the UK is covered and doesn’t pay out of pocket. Americans with the far superior health care doesn’t cover everyone, costs twice as much as theirs and is rated 17th, UK 14th, which in an improvement over the last WHO one done several years ago ranking the US 37th in the world.

Anything that even mentions the word US government is going to be labeled a Socialist thing by Republicans. That is too bad. Some of that evil Socialism built the Hoover dam and Interstate Highways. I don’t care about Socialism. It’s just some word used to scare people. I care about Health Care, the debt, taking care of people in need. Not just giving them stuff. Showing them how to be successful at something. Not getting some useless political science degree. Why is it so hard to just get together and deal with a problem without all the BS? It’s so sad.

We have been fighting over health care for a long time. One side seems to want to do something about it and is open for suggestions. The other side always wants to do nothing on health care other than strip anything Obamacare and label everything Socialism.

What are the jobs of the future? Robots will make everything and transport everything. We really don’t need people or at least that many people. People aren’t going away. How are those people going to live? We have starving people outside our borders wanting shelter while on the same day we have billionaires with multi billion dollar space toys taking people on joy rides to space because they can. We spent 2 trillion on Afghanistan? That could have built one hell of a new World Trade Center or fed a lot of people.

Our priorities are so F’ed up. China IS eating our lunch. They are overtaking us as a world power and we are fighting about stupid shit and civil war. You can’t stop the future or progress but, you can be left behind because of inaction. Electric cars are here and not going away. Solar power is here and not going away. I keep hearing that we can’t go electric because we don’t have enough power in our grid for that many cars.

You just got solar Amareisgod didn’t you? How is that working out? I just had some sales guys come to my door pushing his solar company. He said the biggest demand and crunch on the system comes in the late afternoon heat of the summer. We are on the plan that raises our rates during peak times to get us to conserve energy during peak times. With solar, you are cranking out more energy than you are using at that time of day and it it going back into the grid as excess power. That is a good thing and if enough houses did that it would take away a lot of the energy crunch at peak demand hours. Solar users are upgrading the system one house at a time. They won’t let you produce more electricity than you need for your bill and scale the solar panels to match that amount? Hmmm.

- No argument that the word socialism is totally misused by the R's at the country's expense, at least when it comes to healthcare. But a "$3.5t spending bill" does nothing to alleviate R fears - while some of the stuff in there is actually pretty good, if D's themselves in Manchin and Sinema don't support it, and Hulsman and various others don't either then I'll defer to their view that it's excessive.

- China has its own issues - Evergrande looks a classic real estate over-leverage issue signalling their economy, or at least the largest sector of their economy, is due for a correction ... China's sabre rattling over Taiwan is therefore likely a distraction play from this issue by Xi Jinping. And there's not just economic issues, but cultural ones as well - this is a fascinating article about Wang Huning, the political theorist behind Xi's recent social and economic crackdowns in China:

https://palladiummag.com/2021/10/11/the ... ng-huning/

In short, the ideological race between east and west continues.

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Mori Chu
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Why do trillions of dollars of spending scare Republicans, but trillions of dollars of tax cuts to rich billionaires and corporations don't? Aren't both equally irresponsible? How is cutting millionaires' / billionaires' taxes helpful for you and me and other everyday Americans?

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In2ition
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:49 pm
Why do trillions of dollars of spending scare Republicans, but trillions of dollars of tax cuts to rich billionaires and corporations don't? Aren't both equally irresponsible? How is cutting millionaires' / billionaires' taxes helpful for you and me and other everyday Americans?
The argument is that Billionaires and Millionaires are the ones creating jobs, and with lower taxes more jobs are created. Idk how much of that is true, but it does tend to stimulate the economy when it happens, imo. Trillions of $ spent is most likely going to take an economy that is seeing inflation at a 13 yr high and take it to the sky.
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3rdside
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:49 pm
Why do trillions of dollars of spending scare Republicans, but trillions of dollars of tax cuts to rich billionaires and corporations don't? Aren't both equally irresponsible? How is cutting millionaires' / billionaires' taxes helpful for you and me and other everyday Americans?
That the taxpayer footed the bill for the financial crisis while the bankers got away with it..

That the Trump tax cuts barely did anything for the average tax payer, but owners of businesses saw their net incomes go up and listed companies engaged in share buy backs with all their extra cash ... all while the deficit to fund said tax cuts blew out ..

And the argument is that the $3.5t bill is fiscally irresponsible?

I can't quite reconcile myself either.

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Superbone
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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3rdside wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:27 pm
And the argument is that the $3.5t bill is fiscally irresponsible?

I can't quite reconcile myself either.
I don't think that's a dem/rep thing. Nobody can reconcile that.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

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In2ition
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Superbone wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:37 pm
3rdside wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:27 pm
And the argument is that the $3.5t bill is fiscally irresponsible?

I can't quite reconcile myself either.
I don't think that's a dem/rep thing. Nobody can reconcile that.
Yet, this administration and their cronies like Pelosi are gaslighting everyone saying, "it's going to cost zero".
Let's Go Brandon! .
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3rdside
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Question posed to John Hulsman ... see what he comes back with:

Hi John - many commentators including yourself say the D's $3.5 spending bill is too much but, according to this data scientist, when adjusting for economic conditions it's R's who increase the deficit more than D's.

https://towardsdatascience.com/which-pa ... 422c6b00d7

In view of recent events:

- the taxpayer footing the bill for the financial crisis while profits and bonuses earned prior to the crisis were, ironically, pocketed by those that caused the crisis.

- the Trump tax cuts that barely did anything for the average tax payer but benefitted the rentier class hugely, all the while blowing out the deficit. Made worse by the fact that good economic policy dictates that a deficit should be paid down in good times (which they were pre-covid) in order to have cash in the bank for the bad times when they arrive i.e. covid.

So shouldn't the D's be allowed some leeway to enact their policies or is it a case, again, of the D's having to be fiscally responsible while the R's do what they like?

I had a look through the spending bill and can make the argument that $3.5m is excessive, however there are some great ideas in there that, assuming they have their intended effect, would go a long way to reducing some of the bitterness between the haves and the have nots that is clearly a factor in the angry funk America finds itself in right now.

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Indy
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Everyone keeps saying 3.5T, when that is a ten year figure. Annually it is 350B, which is less than half the money the US spends each year blowing things up and killing people. Maybe it makes sense to spend about half of your "blowing things up" budget on "building things up" instead.

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Mori Chu
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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The GOP (with a huge help from the media) has done a good job in making it so that the only thing people know about the infrastructure and BBB bills are the $3.5 trillion cost. They're good at negative messaging and smart to pick up on this easy-to-remember way to criticize the Biden bills.

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Nodack
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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I see our country in a funk with no direction, just fighting.

I see the infrastructure spending as an investment in America, not just spending money to spend money.

I see our debt as a major bad thing and no one in Washington is serious about doing anything about it.

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Superbone
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Indy wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:07 am
Everyone keeps saying 3.5T, when that is a ten year figure. Annually it is 350B, which is less than half the money the US spends each year blowing things up and killing people. Maybe it makes sense to spend about half of your "blowing things up" budget on "building things up" instead.
Thanks. I didn't know that. Makes it more palatable.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

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3rdside
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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His response - will have a think about my own one in the mean time ...



Dear Simon,

Hi and thanks for this thoughtful note, which surely keeps the conversation going.

First of all, sorry this is in great haste, as I have two pieces to get out today, plus a fair bit of (thank goodness) political risk business to get done. Saying this, I wanted to write, if only broadly.

1) As always, particularly for data scientists (who try to take the politics out of this) it all depends on what you count. Some on the right believe tax cuts help the economy by giving money back to companies and individuals who spend it more productively than the government. Some on the left don't count this for one dollar, and think it only adds to the deficit. That is a political, and subjective, not an objective output. This is why I prefer history!

2) I think philosophically I agree with Senator Manchin, Democrat from West Virginia. The ideational problem with the wish list bill is that it would philosophically re-make the US and another Euroepan-style, 'entitled' society, with sclerotic growth, as government simply doesn't allocate funds in every case as well as individuals do. Surely the European model is not one we should be copying, given growth rates over the past generation.

3) Yes, while there are surely good programs in the wish list bill (for my sins I've read it in detail, too) it is the lumping together of every progressive initiative created over a generation--some good, some bad--that is the problem. They are not differentiated in policy terms in any way; it is rather an emotional effort to get 'everything' at the expense of getting only the good. Trust me, Republicans will overturn such bills based on such an approach as soon as they find themselves in the majority.

To heal the breach, we need to separate the wheat from the chaff, and have moderates of both sides champion what is good in the bill, and do it together. As I said in the podcast, the political culture of the country is founded on large segments of both parties supporting (or at least not trying to overturn) major pieces of legislation. That is precisely why they have proved enduring. This requires not an all or nothing approach, a winner take all view, but instead the frustrating ability to compromise, to ensure this endurance.

All this is why I favour the infrastructure bill and oppose the wish list bill. Thanks for making me think, and onto the next!

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Nodack
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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“Government simply doesn't allocate funds in every case as well as individuals do. “

This concept of giving rich people even more money because they will share it with society is ludicrous to me. It’s called trickle down economics. Give rich people more money and they will piss spare change on society. They might buy an expensive toy Yacht or build a fun rocket for billions to take their friends on joy rides that someone had to build thus helping society with jobs I guess. Does that really help society? I call lame.

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Indy
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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exactly dack. but hulsman is from the heritage society which deifies Reagan and his trickle down policies that really fucked over the middle and working class.

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In2ition
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Yes, the poor and middle class along with the country really flourished under Carter. If only we did things differently.
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Mori Chu
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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In2ition wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:17 pm
Yes, the poor and middle class along with the country really flourished under Carter. If only we did things differently.
How about under Clinton, who actually balanced the budget and had a surplus? Under Obama, who saved us from the 2008 crash caused by the horrendous GW Bush? Economy seems to do well when Dems are in office. Under Republicans you just cut taxes but still spend irresponsibly, causing trillions of dollars of deficits.

I will grant that we're spending like crazy under Biden so far, and he wants to spend even more. But interest rates are low and we're in the middle of a crisis (arguably, multiple crises, if you count COVID and climate change being close to eradicating our species). So I don't mind running up a bit of a tab.

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Nodack
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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I would take Jimmy Carter over Trump any day. Carter made some mistakes and said some controversial things but, was a humanitarian and spent his entire life after the Presidency helping people. Trumps only goal always is to help himself, get revenge on his enemies and not give a crap about anyone else.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/91828928 ... -president

Carter found his passion in politics, serving two years in the Georgia state senate before being elected governor in 1970. Alter is sharply critical of Carter's campaign for the statehouse, writing, "While he didn't say anything explicitly racist, he figured out how to appeal to racist voters, a decision he claimed not to regret." Once elected, however, Carter stunned Georgians with his inaugural address, in which he stated: "I say to you quite frankly that the time for racial discrimination is over" — sadly, this was a remarkable comment for a Southern governor to make at the time.

Carter's election as president was marked by a series of unforced errors that nearly cost him the race, including his now-famous Playboy interview in which he admitted, inexplicably, "I have looked on a lot of women with lust; I've committed adultery in my heart many times." He also said he wouldn't force neighborhoods to be racially integrated, noting — again, inexplicably — "I see nothing wrong with ethnic purity being maintained."

Alter dedicates the bulk of his book to Carter's presidency, which he argues was successful in the long term, pointing to his work for environmental causes and his support for the Centers for Disease Control, among other accomplishments. But, as Alter notes, "If there is a gene for duty, responsibility, and the will to tackle messy problems with little or no potential for political gain, Jimmy Carter was born with it" — and the last two years of his term were disastrous, with the Iran hostage crisis that started in 1979 sealing his fate as a one-term president.
Last edited by Nodack on Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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In2ition
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:52 am
In2ition wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:17 pm
Yes, the poor and middle class along with the country really flourished under Carter. If only we did things differently.
How about under Clinton, who actually balanced the budget and had a surplus? Under Obama, who saved us from the 2008 crash caused by the horrendous GW Bush? Economy seems to do well when Dems are in office. Under Republicans you just cut taxes but still spend irresponsibly, causing trillions of dollars of deficits.

I will grant that we're spending like crazy under Biden so far, and he wants to spend even more. But interest rates are low and we're in the middle of a crisis (arguably, multiple crises, if you count COVID and climate change being close to eradicating our species). So I don't mind running up a bit of a tab.
I'm not going to stick up for either of the Bush's or most of the Reps in the last 30 yrs. They are criminals to the highest order. I'm not going to yell horray for the Dems either. We, all of us have been deceived by these crooks that get rich off of us and sacrifice lives for BS.

Carter was a complete and utter failure, and any sticking up for him as a President is just crazy town, imo. Sure, he was a nice guy, but a TERRIBLE leader.
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Nodack
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

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On the second day of his presidency, Carter pardoned all Vietnam War draft evaders by issuing Proclamation 4483. During his term, two new cabinet-level departments—the Department of Energy and the Department of Education—were established. He created a national energy policy that included conservation, price control, and new technology. Carter pursued the Camp David Accords, the Panama Canal Treaties, the second round of Strategic Arms Limitation Talks (SALT II), and the return of the Panama Canal Zone to Panama. On the economic front, he confronted stagflation, a persistent combination of high inflation, high unemployment and slow growth. The end of his presidential tenure was marked by the 1979–1981 Iran hostage crisis, the 1979 energy crisis, the Three Mile Island nuclear accident, the Nicaraguan Revolution and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Polls of historians and political scientists generally rank Carter as a below-average president. His post-presidential activities have been viewed more favorably than his presidency


Carter was a below average President. Trump is ranked the second worst President in US history.

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