2020 Election Thread

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
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3rdside
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by 3rdside »



This is happening - if somebody was offering odds on USA being finished, I’m starting to think I’d put some money on it.

We got lucky with Covid, here’s hoping for a Trump stroke, heart attack etc before 2024.

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virtual9mm
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by virtual9mm »

Only reasons why this could not happen:

1. Dems grow a spine and make DC and PR states while passing meaningful voter protection and other protections for democracy.

2. The Pentagon steps in.

3. Trump has a heart attack.

1 won't happen.

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virtual9mm
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by virtual9mm »

Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:50 am
virtual9mm wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:06 am
Nodack wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:26 pm
As long as Trump continues to be a real threat to our country, I won’t be stepping away. There are two halves of America right now. There are Democrats and there is Trump. Trump is the Republican Party and he doesn’t even hold office. Call it unhinged if you want. A majority of Republicans favor civil war and forty something percent of Dems now favor civil war. That would mean the end of America. That’s a pretty big deal IMO.

As long as Republicans believe all Trumps lies he will be a threat to our country. I am not just going to ignore it and pretend it’s not a big deal.
A) Nodack - keep on going. The biggest barrier to real progress is the lack of awareness about the truth.


B) I think that the Pentagon will step in before it gets really bad, though.
A) Seconded.

B) I thnk so too, but once that happens do we still have the United States of America?
Closest equivalent I can think of is the Roman Republic and Sulla.

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Cap
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Cap »

virtual9mm wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:06 am
Only reasons why this could not happen:

1. Dems grow a spine and make DC and PR states while passing meaningful voter protection and other protections for democracy.

2. The Pentagon steps in.

3. Trump has a heart attack.

1 won't happen.
2 and 3 won’t happen either.

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Mori Chu
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Mori Chu »

I honestly think we're reaching the point where the most likely outcome is Republican authoritarian takeover of the country. Dems only have about 1 year left to protect anything, and they've shown no awareness of the reality of the threat nor any willingness to do anything about it. And I don't think they'd get the 50 votes they need in the Senate to pass anything serious like PR+DC or expanding the Supreme Court or passing serious voting rights legislation. I think what's most likely to happen is:

- GOP gerrymandering messes up House races for 2022, causing GOP to win House majority in 2022 (possibly also Senate, but maybe not)
- 2022 - 2024 are spent with the new GOP House blocking 100% of Biden's agenda outside of executive orders, and instituting repeated impeachment investigations into him over nothing (Afghanistan, his being too old / demented to do the job, etc.) and/or trying to invoke the 25th Amendment or whatever
- 2024 election gets stolen by GOP after crooked state officials overturn the will of the people in their states; Trump becomes President in 2025
- authoritarian takeover of USA complete

I think the only actual thing that can stop the above is criminal prosecution of Donald Trump prior to 2024. I think he's guilty of sedition for his role in the 1/6 insurrection, along with any number of financial and fraud crimes. Bust him, put him in prison, then he can't run. That's about the only way I can see to save the country.

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Nodack
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Nodack »

'There has been a coup': Bernstein reacts to new evidence on Trump's role in riot

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Superbone
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Superbone »

Mori Chu wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:11 am
I honestly think we're reaching the point where the most likely outcome is Republican authoritarian takeover of the country. Dems only have about 1 year left to protect anything, and they've shown no awareness of the reality of the threat nor any willingness to do anything about it. And I don't think they'd get the 50 votes they need in the Senate to pass anything serious like PR+DC or expanding the Supreme Court or passing serious voting rights legislation. I think what's most likely to happen is:

- GOP gerrymandering messes up House races for 2022, causing GOP to win House majority in 2022 (possibly also Senate, but maybe not)
- 2022 - 2024 are spent with the new GOP House blocking 100% of Biden's agenda outside of executive orders, and instituting repeated impeachment investigations into him over nothing (Afghanistan, his being too old / demented to do the job, etc.) and/or trying to invoke the 25th Amendment or whatever
- 2024 election gets stolen by GOP after crooked state officials overturn the will of the people in their states; Trump becomes President in 2025
- authoritarian takeover of USA complete

I think the only actual thing that can stop the above is criminal prosecution of Donald Trump prior to 2024. I think he's guilty of sedition for his role in the 1/6 insurrection, along with any number of financial and fraud crimes. Bust him, put him in prison, then he can't run. That's about the only way I can see to save the country.
You forgot:
- Trump abolishes the 2 term limit for POTUS.
- He remains president until he dies at which point Donald Jr. takes over with Ivanka as vice president.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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3rdside
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by 3rdside »

I'd be fine with the split as it might be for the best, but who gets the Pentagon?

If it's Republicans then god help the world.

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Mori Chu
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Mori Chu »

I don't think there will be any split. The Republicans want the whole country. They aren't content to try to split off certain states, and they know that the red/blue divide doesn't neatly map to state boundaries any more. They're going to try to make all of us subject to their authoritarian rule.

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In2ition
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by In2ition »

Mori Chu wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:48 pm
I don't think there will be any split. The Republicans want the whole country. They aren't content to try to split off certain states, and they know that the red/blue divide doesn't neatly map to state boundaries any more. They're going to try to make all of us subject to their authoritarian rule.
I've seen you claim others that you disagree with are authoritarian, fascists, and even nazis. I assume you have some tangible examples of these tendencies, examples of them doing it,, or what exactly it is going to look like in the future you are confident is going to happen? I think we all should fear this dystopia future, and what to expect.
Let's Go Brandon! .
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
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Nodack
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Nodack »

The evidence that Trump attempted a coup has become overwhelming imo. The evidence that many Republicans tried to go along with it is overwhelming. The evidence that many Republicans stood up to Trump and thwarted his coup attempt is overwhelming too and those people saved our Democracy. Trump is sly and figures things out and next time could be different. Non Trump Republicans are being purged. Rules that saved our Democracy are being challenged by pro Trump Republicans in several states. Besides making it harder for blacks to vote, pro Trump Republicans in power have been consolidating election powers to Republicans.

Arizona Republicans Strip Some Election Power From Democratic Secretary Of State
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/30/10111541 ... y-of-state

Arizona Republicans have stripped the secretary of state's office — currently held by a Democrat — of the right to defend the state's election laws in court, or choose not to, a change enacted as part of Arizona's newly signed budget.

The spending blueprint that Gov. Doug Ducey signed into law Wednesday declares that the attorney general — currently a position occupied by Republican Mark Brnovich — has sole authority over election-related litigation.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... e-n1268558

Arizona Republicans passed a measure on Tuesday to strip Democrat Katie Hobbs, the current secretary of state, of her ability to defend election lawsuits, a seemingly partisan retaliation for her sharp criticism of the party's controversial election audit.

The bill, which passed both the state's House and Senate Appropriations committees, puts the attorney general, Republican Mark Brnovich, in charge of defending all lawsuits through January 2, 2023, which is around the end of his and Hobbs’ current terms.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... e-n1272522

Republicans who sought to undercut or overturn President Joe Biden's election win are launching campaigns to become their states' top election officials next year, alarming local officeholders and opponents who are warning about pro-Trump, "ends justify the means" candidates taking big roles in running the vote.... The campaigns set up the possibility that politicians who have taken steps to undermine faith in the American democratic system could soon be the ones running it.


Republican Legislators Curb Authority of County, State Election Officials

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-a ... -officials

Republican lawmakers this year passed an unprecedented bevy of bills targeting the authority of state and local election officials, a power grab that might allow partisan legislators to overturn future election results by claiming there was fraud.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... elections/

During the 2020 election cycle in Georgia, Donald Trump pressured Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to “find 11,780 votes” to overturn Joe Biden’s victory in the state. His efforts to manipulate the electoral process failed after Raffensperger stood up to the president and defended the integrity of the election. But if the Georgia legislature has its way, Republicans could have a much easier time overturning the will of voters in future elections.

The Georgia House of Representatives passed a major power grab on Thursday on a party-line vote that would remove Raffensperger as the chair and a voting member of the state election board, which oversees the certification of elections and voting rules, and instead allow the GOP-controlled legislature to appoint a majority of the board’s members, including the chair.

Wisconsin, where the GOP-controlled legislature stripped power from incoming Democratic governor Tony Evers after his election in 2018. Similar efforts by GOP legislatures to take power away from secretaries of state and election officials are underway in at least eight Republican-controlled states. The Georgia bill is also one of more than 250 bills being considered by Republicans in 43 states that would make it harder to vote, and it was passed one day after Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell claimed in a Senate hearing that “states are not engaging in efforts to suppress voters whatsoever.”

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Indy
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Indy »

Hey Dack, just so you know that provision added by the AZ GOP was struck down recently.

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Nodack
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Nodack »

I did not know that. That’s good news.

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Indy
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Indy »

it is. Doesn't mean they can't pass a law to do the same thing, but trying to add it to a spending bill is what got it struck.

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3rdside
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by 3rdside »

20 minutes of your time dudes .. seriously, just listen to it (John Hulsman, again ..):

https://johnhulsman.substack.com/p/for- ... tm_source=

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Indy
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Indy »

Which part spoke to you so much?

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3rdside
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by 3rdside »

1. Why people still vote for the Republicans
2. Why the Democratic party is a threat to the country
3. Why Trump cannot possibly win again
4. Why the MSM has got so much to answer for

It's an expert's moderate view that tries to bridge this gap of Democrats saying the Republicans are the devil and vice versa - all of the USA needs to hear it because both sides are screaming at each other with their hands over their ears, it seems.

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Mori Chu
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Mori Chu »

The Democratic Party is a threat to the country? Why?

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3rdside
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by 3rdside »

Listen and find out?

Although I probably phrased it badly - a part of the Democratic party is a threat to the USA .. but no apology there as you do seem to get a little touchy at first criticism of the D's, which I think is a mistake.

As Hulsman said, Hilary Clinton and Trump are two people that deserved each other.

If you don't want to listen, I can add that, while AOC wants good things for the USA - things that are taken as a given in other countries - there appears to be far too uncomfortable a socilaist slant to that side of the party .. it's why people, especially entrepreneurs ('nice guys' Robert Kiyosaki, Ryan Daniel Moran I know for sure), voted Trump; they ignored the person and voted the politics, as flawed as that may seem sometimes.

Declining and decadent Europe (which I have lived in and am a huge supporter of) is where excess-socialism gets you and a $3.5t bill on democratic goodies seems excessive.

And while there's clearly more than just a slant of the R's that's uncomfortable right now, that's not to excuse that side of the D's either.

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Nodack
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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Post by Nodack »

All those other commie countries like the UK have universal healthcare paid for mostly by taxes that their citizens pay. Yes, their taxes are higher. Every single person in the UK is covered and doesn’t pay out of pocket. Americans with the far superior health care doesn’t cover everyone, costs twice as much as theirs and is rated 17th, UK 14th, which in an improvement over the last WHO one done several years ago ranking the US 37th in the world.

Anything that even mentions the word US government is going to be labeled a Socialist thing by Republicans. That is too bad. Some of that evil Socialism built the Hoover dam and Interstate Highways. I don’t care about Socialism. It’s just some word used to scare people. I care about Health Care, the debt, taking care of people in need. Not just giving them stuff. Showing them how to be successful at something. Not getting some useless political science degree. Why is it so hard to just get together and deal with a problem without all the BS? It’s so sad.

We have been fighting over health care for a long time. One side seems to want to do something about it and is open for suggestions. The other side always wants to do nothing on health care other than strip anything Obamacare and label everything Socialism.

What are the jobs of the future? Robots will make everything and transport everything. We really don’t need people or at least that many people. People aren’t going away. How are those people going to live? We have starving people outside our borders wanting shelter while on the same day we have billionaires with multi billion dollar space toys taking people on joy rides to space because they can. We spent 2 trillion on Afghanistan? That could have built one hell of a new World Trade Center or fed a lot of people.

Our priorities are so F’ed up. China IS eating our lunch. They are overtaking us as a world power and we are fighting about stupid shit and civil war. You can’t stop the future or progress but, you can be left behind because of inaction. Electric cars are here and not going away. Solar power is here and not going away. I keep hearing that we can’t go electric because we don’t have enough power in our grid for that many cars.

You just got solar Amareisgod didn’t you? How is that working out? I just had some sales guys come to my door pushing his solar company. He said the biggest demand and crunch on the system comes in the late afternoon heat of the summer. We are on the plan that raises our rates during peak times to get us to conserve energy during peak times. With solar, you are cranking out more energy than you are using at that time of day and it it going back into the grid as excess power. That is a good thing and if enough houses did that it would take away a lot of the energy crunch at peak demand hours. Solar users are upgrading the system one house at a time. They won’t let you produce more electricity than you need for your bill and scale the solar panels to match that amount? Hmmm.

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