2024 Election

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Kryptonic
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Kryptonic »

Split T wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:01 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:09 am
It's not even remotely close to the same amount of money.
Well student loan relief helps a lot more people…I’m not sure a wall helps anyone
The wall is the dumbest shit ever... They've shown time and time again they get through it just fine. Where there's a will, there's a way. If they want to do better, I'd argue using drones with LIDAR and Infared to just track them down and go and scoop them up. I'm for securing the nation, but with 21st century technology, not a stupid wall.

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Split T
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Split T »

It probably only slows/stops the completely harmless immigrants who are just trying to find work. The cartels and traffickers and criminals will find a way.

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In2ition
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by In2ition »

Kryptonic wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:52 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:09 am
It's not even remotely close to the same amount of money.
Did you go to college?
Yes, and it took 20 yrs for me to pay off my student loans.

From your tone, apparently I may have misunderstood the amount of each. Looking at the worst numbers to see it from your POV, I was mistaken on the numbers. Mea culpa. I also agree that I would rather pay off student debt than many things, including the cost of a physical border wall.

We've talked about this in the past. I'm all for student loan "forgiveness". Forgive the loans, and tell the loan companies that they aren't getting paid back either. Let them cry and complain and go out of business, perhaps even unjustly. I hate that legislation was put in that required people to pay the loans back no matter what. You can't even get forgiveness on the debt if you go bankrupt. That's pretty sad. Now, some may say that "it's UnAmerican to bitch about this, and you should just figure it out and get a better job." In some ways, there is an argument for that.

The problem is that when they frame it, they say, "loan forgiveness", what they really mean is "transfer the loans onto the rest of the country, many of which never went to college or gotten themselves in debt for it".
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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In2ition
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by In2ition »

Kryptonic wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:04 am
Split T wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:01 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:09 am
It's not even remotely close to the same amount of money.
Well student loan relief helps a lot more people…I’m not sure a wall helps anyone
The wall is the dumbest shit ever... They've shown time and time again they get through it just fine. Where there's a will, there's a way. If they want to do better, I'd argue using drones with LIDAR and Infared to just track them down and go and scoop them up. I'm for securing the nation, but with 21st century technology, not a stupid wall.
I'm all for using 21st century technology. The physical wall slows them down and/or creates a specific location where they get in, if they make a hole in it. This allows the CBP to get to the area and pick them up. If you have a 1000 holes, then it's much harder to scoop them up.

It's clear that the cartels pretty much control the border. They get in tons of people, drugs and weapons that they bring in by using a lot of different tactics.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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In2ition
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by In2ition »

Kryptonic wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:56 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 7:57 am
Kryptonic wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 6:52 am
Anyone who believes campaign promises needs their head checked…. I drive by the wasted border wall just sitting at Stinger in Coolidge all the time. If you’re gonna call out this stuff at least try to be halfway unbiased.
You think that the border wall is a campaign promise to buy voters? You think that the GOP is paying influencers to talk positively about Trump? If you know this is happening, please post it here. At least the wall started to be built and got funding legally. How many times has Biden been told what he's doing as far as Student Loans is unconstitutional? 3 or 4 times already? He's persistent at trying to pass the debt on to you and me though.
He not only promised it, he promised Mexico would pay for it.

That clearly hasn't happened, but he did get them to agree to the Stay in Mexico plan, and they were building their own wall. It would be funny if Mexico paid for it in the future. Would the promise be fullfilled then?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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In2ition
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by In2ition »

Split T wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:30 am
It probably only slows/stops the completely harmless immigrants who are just trying to find work. The cartels and traffickers and criminals will find a way.
I believe there are plenty of legal ports of entry that they could use, no?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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Split T
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Split T »

In2ition wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:48 am
Split T wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:30 am
It probably only slows/stops the completely harmless immigrants who are just trying to find work. The cartels and traffickers and criminals will find a way.
I believe there are plenty of legal ports of entry that they could use, no?
Not always…from what I hear it’s very hard to legally immigrate here. I’d be more supportive of illegal immigration reform if we had better legal immigration options

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In2ition
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by In2ition »

Split T wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:12 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:48 am
Split T wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:30 am
It probably only slows/stops the completely harmless immigrants who are just trying to find work. The cartels and traffickers and criminals will find a way.
I believe there are plenty of legal ports of entry that they could use, no?
Not always…from what I hear it’s very hard to legally immigrate here. I’d be more supportive of illegal immigration reform if we had better legal immigration options
If you are just coming over as a seasonal worker, there should be an easier way for them to cross legally. I agree that better legal immigration options should be available.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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Nodack
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Nodack »

Trump promised Mexico would pay for the wall 79474868673 times. Then he won, Republicans won the House and the Senate. Republicans could pass anything they wanted. They passed a massive tax break that mostly went to the super filthy rich people. Then Republicans in Washington said no to Trumps wall.

Trump promised to repeal Obamacare. He didn’t.

Trump promise he would zero the national debt by the time he left office. He didn’t.

He promised he would end violence in our inner cities. All he did was insult them after he was elected.

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TOO
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by TOO »

Nodack wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:46 pm
Trump promised Mexico would pay for the wall 79474868673 times. Then he won, Republicans won the House and the Senate. Republicans could pass anything they wanted. They passed a massive tax break that mostly went to the super filthy rich people. Then Republicans in Washington said no to Trumps wall.

Trump promised to repeal Obamacare. He didn’t.

Trump promise he would zero the national debt by the time he left office. He didn’t.

He promised he would end violence in our inner cities. All he did was insult them after he was elected.
Inb4wheresthevideo
Jones and Vogel out, Lue or Lee in, draft Grant Nelson or Tyler Kolek.

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Nodack
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Nodack »

All of Trumps campaign promises

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 593d277842
Spoiler: show/hide

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Mori Chu
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Mori Chu »

My hot take is that the Dems should make a big immigration compromise with Trump and the GOP where they agree to build his wall (really!) in exchange for some big Dem asks, like:

- give citizenship to the "Dreamers"
- increase legal immigration
- lots of $$$ for border agents, equipment
- more judges for faster processing immigration claims

etc. There's got to be a good compromise in there somewhere. I don't really want a wall, but if that were a means to a good outcome, I'm not opposed to it.

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Nodack
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Nodack »

I think they just proved it’s not really about immigration. It’s the fight over immigration that matters.

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In2ition
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by In2ition »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2024 3:09 pm
My hot take is that the Dems should make a big immigration compromise with Trump and the GOP where they agree to build his wall (really!) in exchange for some big Dem asks, like:

- give citizenship to the "Dreamers"
- increase legal immigration
- lots of $$$ for border agents, equipment
- more judges for faster processing immigration claims

etc. There's got to be a good compromise in there somewhere. I don't really want a wall, but if that were a means to a good outcome, I'm not opposed to it.
I don't think these are compromises so much. I think that anyone really looking at this situation believes that these should happen.

The argument comes from the Reps believe that the amount shouldn't be 1.5 million immigrants per year though, and it shouldn't include chain upon chain of immigration claims, creating 7 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon for the initial claim(which essentially includes nearly everyone on the planet as an automatic accepted immigrant).

Another issue is that the Reps believe that each child needs to be vetted to make sure that they belong to the people that claim they belong to, since we have found many traffickers are using the children as mules and/or are trafficked themselves when they arrive in the US.

I think we can all reasonably agree on these points. We don't want children trafficked, we don't want actual violent criminals allowed, we don't want people trafficked by cartels into servitude, we don't want to allow known terrorists in, and we don't want contraband allowed in.

There can't be loopholes in the legislation that allows any of these to happen.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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Mori Chu
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Mori Chu »

What "chains" do you mean exactly? Birthright citizenship? Or do you mean, like, Person A gets approved and then somehow that makes it automatic / super likely that their brother or cousin or friend etc. will also get in?

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In2ition
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by In2ition »

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:55 am
What "chains" do you mean exactly? Birthright citizenship? Or do you mean, like, Person A gets approved and then somehow that makes it automatic / super likely that their brother or cousin or friend etc. will also get in?
The latter. So certain person A gets in, then cousin gets in, then cousin of cousin(who isn't related to the original) gets in, then next 6th cousin gets from the cousin of the cousin, then so on and on and on, which could be a never ending chain.
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"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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Nodack
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Nodack »

So do we kick out Melania’s mother? That’s how she got in.

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In2ition
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by In2ition »

Nodack wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:01 pm
So do we kick out Melania’s mother? That’s how she got in.
Did I mention direct family members? I thought I was clear on this.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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Mori Chu
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by Mori Chu »

Do you have any data on how many cousins-of-cousins get approved to come into the country by chain immigration?

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In2ition
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Re: 2024 Election

Post by In2ition »

This is something that the Biden team needs to figure out fast.
SPECIAL REPORT: Biden off Ohio ballot? Democrats put themselves in hot water in Buckeye State
Jack Windsor Apr 8, 2024
https://www.theohiopressnetwork.com/new ... 56be7.html?

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Two factors put Joe Biden at risk for not being on the ballot for U.S. President in Ohio this November: Ohio law and the date of the Democratic National Convention.

State law requires that a presidential candidate be certified 90 days prior to the election – this year that date falls on August 7. Democrats do not hold their national convention, where their candidate is officially chosen, until Aug. 19-22 in Chicago.

The date of the convention calls into question the logistics and planning of the Democrats. How did they miss the Ohio deadline when planning their nominating convention?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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