Russia/Ukraine

[Nodack]

I know what the Cold War was. The US and Russia tried to outspend each other militarily and support whoever was opposing the other. It officially added in 1991. The Soviet Union broke apart. Russia welcomed democracy and capitalism. Reagan and Gorbachev became best friends, the wall came down and the world was a better place.

Then Gorbachev was replaced and the old school Russians came to power. Russia has regained a lot of its economic power and started flexing its muscles. Putin retains power with an iron grip killing anyone who dares challenge him. Putin wants his Soviet Union back and isn’t afraid to just take those countries back by force.

The US intelligence community would be very negligent to ignore Russia. Obama was trying to soothe tensions between the two powers, not ramp them up. Romney was right though and Maga hates Romney.

Call this whatever you want. The US and the West support Ukraine. Maga seems to support Russia and the world knows it. They are preparing for the consequences of Trump winning and the US ceasing to be an ally of the West.

[In2ition]

Is blowing up the only bridge to Crimea a war crime? How about damning up the only fresh water source? Germany and former U.S. military aides seems like a ramp up.

[Nodack]

Is blowing up the only bridge to Crimea a war crime? How about damning up the only fresh water source? Germany and former U.S. military aides seems like a ramp up.

It’s a war crime if you support Russia’s war. That bridge is a vital artery for Putin’s war machine. Of course you don’t support Putin’s war. You are just being a Devils advocate…

[Mori Chu]

Navalny's funeral.

[Nodack]

Wed Feb 23, 2022 Did Putin actually invade Ukraine though? He sent in "peacekeeping forces", after the regions voted to become part of Russia, and then Russia voted to recognize those regions as independent. Did he violate any international law? I don't think he actually did, and that's why it was savvy.

So Russia didn’t invade Ukraine? They brought peace keeping forces into Eastern Ukraine to protect the Ukrainians who all wanted to be part of Russia and those mean Ukrainians wouldn’t have it?

I can see the same thing happening here. Some people in southern Arizona decide they want to be part of Mexico and Mexico invades AZ to “protect its citizens” from the evil US military encroaching on their new territory. Mexico decides that the entire US at that point should become Mexico and tries to take it all and In2ition thinks they have every right. Sorry In2, your house is in Mexico now. They voted to become Mexico so. Nothing illegal or wrong about it. The US is committing war crimes on those poor Mexicans in Southern AZ so they had to do something right?

[In2ition]

It still falls flat as this is a situation that will never happen. The US after 160+ yrs, isn't going succeed territory as the bigger and stronger country.

And how is the US committing war crimes against Mexicans?

[Nodack]

I was giving you a what if scenario that was completely fabricated to make a point. You missed the point.

[In2ition]

I understand your point, but the problem is that you think it's a fair analogy, so it makes sense to you.

[Nodack]

I know Mexico would never attack the US. They aren’t Russia. The analogy was sound though. If Mexico did invade the US to protect it’s citizens living in Phoenix who obviously want to be part of Mexico, would you support Mexico’s invasion or the US defending it’s sovereignty?

[In2ition]

I know Mexico would never attack the US. They aren’t Russia. The analogy was sound though. If Mexico did invade the US to protect it’s citizens living in Phoenix who obviously want to be part of Mexico, would you support Mexico’s invasion or the US defending it’s sovereignty?

The problem that it's not sound is that you also have to add in that the US was only created 31 years ago, is much smaller and weaker than Mexico, and that Mexico and the whole area has been a country for thousands of years. You are creating a lot of extra hypotheticals that are some heavy fiction to add to your hypothetical and fiction. Fiction on top of fiction, without adding the fiction.

[Split T]

I know Mexico would never attack the US. They aren’t Russia. The analogy was sound though. If Mexico did invade the US to protect it’s citizens living in Phoenix who obviously want to be part of Mexico, would you support Mexico’s invasion or the US defending it’s sovereignty?

The problem that it's not sound is that you also have to add in that the US was only created 31 years ago, is much smaller and weaker than Mexico, and that Mexico and the whole area has been a country for thousands of years. You are creating a lot of extra hypotheticals that are some heavy fiction to add to your hypothetical and fiction. Fiction on top of fiction, without adding the fiction.

Why does it have to be the exact same scenario? Why does the strength of the country matter? Doesn’t that make it worse that Russia is picking on a weaker and smaller country? I don’t understand why how long Ukraine has been a country matters either.

[In2ition]

I know Mexico would never attack the US. They aren’t Russia. The analogy was sound though. If Mexico did invade the US to protect it’s citizens living in Phoenix who obviously want to be part of Mexico, would you support Mexico’s invasion or the US defending it’s sovereignty?

The problem that it's not sound is that you also have to add in that the US was only created 31 years ago, is much smaller and weaker than Mexico, and that Mexico and the whole area has been a country for thousands of years. You are creating a lot of extra hypotheticals that are some heavy fiction to add to your hypothetical and fiction. Fiction on top of fiction, without adding the fiction.

Why does it have to be the exact same scenario? Why does the strength of the country matter? Doesn’t that make it worse that Russia is picking on a weaker and smaller country? I don’t understand why how long Ukraine has been a country matters either.

It doesn't have to be the exact same scenario, but it should at least live the same universe. The only thing that is comparable is that you could say that Mexican citizens are in and live in the US. Everything else, you have to suspend reality to make it work.

[Split T]

So why do the differences change things? Why does Ukraine being weaker make it more ok for Russia to invade? Why does the length of time Ukraine has been a country matter?

[In2ition]

So why do the differences change things? Why does Ukraine being weaker make it more ok for Russia to invade? Why does the length of time Ukraine has been a country matter?

Because there are people still alive and young that remember when there was no such country as Ukraine.

It doesn't make it more ok for Russia to invade, it just flips the reality when you try to say that Mexico invades and then you have to also believe that Mexico takes the territory back and the US is helpless to do anything about it or realistically from taking it back or justify why it was killing it's own citizens.

[Split T]

So why do the differences change things? Why does Ukraine being weaker make it more ok for Russia to invade? Why does the length of time Ukraine has been a country matter?

Because there are people still alive and young that remember when there was no such country as Ukraine.

It doesn't make it more ok for Russia to invade, it just flips the reality when you try to say that Mexico invades and then you have to also believe that Mexico takes the territory back and the US is helpless to do anything about it or realistically from taking it back or justify why it was killing it's own citizens.

Well it sounds like you are talking about the feasibility of it…I read nodack’s post as talking about the legality or morality of it. I think the analogy is fine in that regards.

[Cap]

I know Mexico would never attack the US. They aren’t Russia. The analogy was sound though. If Mexico did invade the US to protect it’s citizens living in Phoenix who obviously want to be part of Mexico, would you support Mexico’s invasion or the US defending it’s sovereignty?

The problem that it's not sound is that you also have to add in that the US was only created 31 years ago, is much smaller and weaker than Mexico, and that Mexico and the whole area has been a country for thousands of years. You are creating a lot of extra hypotheticals that are some heavy fiction to add to your hypothetical and fiction. Fiction on top of fiction, without adding the fiction.

Why does it have to be the exact same scenario? Why does the strength of the country matter? Doesn’t that make it worse that Russia is picking on a weaker and smaller country? I don’t understand why how long Ukraine has been a country matters either.

It pretty much was the exact same scenario in 1848, just in the other direction.

[Nodack]

I think I got my answer anyway.

[In2ition]

The architect of the 2014 Ukranian coup resigns.

[In2ition]

Is Climate change that important to you that you would feel better about the war if Russia announced some changes to help fight it?

[Mori Chu]

Don't know what he's talking about.