Ferguson, Missouri shooting of Michael Brown

[Mori Chu]

Do we want to try to talk about this topic here? Will it turn into a total disaster, a cesspool of flaming and hurt feelings?

[Mori Chu]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/13/us/missou ... ?hpt=hp_t2

[Dan H]

Has there been a video released of the shooting yet? Reserving judgement about what happened if/when we see dash cam recordings. Even if it was excessive force, it's still no excuse for the rioting, though.

[Mori Chu]

The new stuff tonight looks pretty crazy. Cops are firing rubber bullets at unarmed protesters, shooting tear gas into crowds that didn't seem to do anything to provoke it, taking away phone cameras and videocameras trying to record any footage of what's going on, firing tear gas near news crews to get them to leave the scene, ... It's just nuts. It looks really bad for the police department of Ferguson. Every day it keeps getting worse and worse.

[Dan H]

Ugh. Yeah, censorship is never a good sign, and you'd think cops would know it's perfectly Constitutional for them to be videotaped given all the recent court findings.

Must read:

http://market-ticker.org/post=229299

[Dan H]

http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-fergu ... um=twitter

[Dan H]

Again, doesn't excuse the behavior of the police toward the protesters, but this adds a bit more context to the situation.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08 ... nce-store/

[Mori Chu]

Dan: I think the other side of the argument would be, regardless of his possible criminal record or other character attributes, unless he presented an immediate threat to the cop's life, he should not have been shot to death. His robbing a convenience store doesn't make it okay to gun him down. Also, the article seems loaded with irrelevant points like how his nickname was supposedly "Big Mike". He's big, so it's okay to shoot him down? No.

[Dan H]

Dan: I think the other side of the argument would be, regardless of his possible criminal record or other character attributes, unless he presented an immediate threat to the cop's life, he should not have been shot to death. His robbing a convenience store doesn't make it okay to gun him down. Also, the article seems loaded with irrelevant points like how his nickname was supposedly "Big Mike". He's big, so it's okay to shoot him down? No.

Didn't say it was okay, obviously we still don't have dash cam video nor do we know how many times he was actually shot. Just adds context to the situation; he's been portrayed in the media as an honor student poet who was gunned down by a crazed cop.

Well . . . honor student poets don't usually rob convenience stores. The crazed cop part is still up for debate.

At least they pulled the tacticool nimrod cops out and replaced them with the state police to de-escalate the situation.

[Cap]

The crazed cop part is still up for debate.

What's to debate? He shot a running man in the back and kept shooting him after he surrendered. Any prior misdeeds of the victim are absolutely irrelevant, and it's disgusting that people are attacking the victim's character as if it somehow excuses the shooting.

[Dan H]

The crazed cop part is still up for debate.

What's to debate? He shot a running man in the back and kept shooting him after he surrendered. Any prior misdeeds of the victim are absolutely irrelevant, and it's disgusting that people are attacking the victim's character as if it somehow excuses the shooting.

Again, that has not been, to my understanding, shown as complete fact. Yes, some witness testimony makes that argument, but we don't yet have forensics. Doesn't make the behavior of the police toward the protesters and press any more legit, but that really is a secondary issue. Do the actions of the police bode poorly on the actions of the cop? Yes, it would seem to indicate that the culture of that department is not a healthy one. But just the same, the actions of Brown show that he wasn't an entirely innocent figure, either. I think it's hasty to jump to conclusions until we at least get the autopsy report.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/michael-brow ... unanswered

[SDC]

The crazed cop part is still up for debate.

What's to debate? He shot a running man in the back and kept shooting him after he surrendered. Any prior misdeeds of the victim are absolutely irrelevant, and it's disgusting that people are attacking the victim's character as if it somehow excuses the shooting.

i dont know about the veracity of that account, but there is absolutely no excuse for the looting and the riots. thank god for the 2nd amendment


I trust Mikhail and Eugene, the police and human decency, not so much

[SDC]

Ness: “Now Salvatore, tell us what you saw.”

Salvatore: “No Mr. Ness. I no a-talk to the the police. In the old-ah country I learn that it’s-a better to mind your own business.”

Ness: “Salvatore, this is America. The police protect you here. We have courts. We have justice.”

Salvatore: “I prefer the old a-ways Mr Ness.”

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/201 ... a-country/

[SDC]

that video really did a lot of damage to The Narrative, didnt it?

[Indy]

This entire situation is crazy, but it probably shouldn't be. From the (limited) time I spent doing ride alongs, and having several law enforcement officers in my family, minorities (and especially black guys) are incredibly more likely to have a weapon drawn on them than anyone else. Even if there are 95% good guys in the department, it helps breed racism. Giving people "above the law" authority to operate around citizens calls to a select group of people, especially considering the poor pay for police officers. The same way the old say goes anyone who is crazy enough to run for president doesn't deserve to be president, I feel similar about many of people we let police our communities.

[Cap]

that video really did a lot of damage to The Narrative, didnt it?

What narrative? That Michael Brown was a perfect human being who had never done anything wrong? Nobody was advancing that narrative. He took a pack of Swishers and shoved a clerk. Big deal. How does this even belong in the same conversation as a man getting shot in the back? I don't know what narrative the video supposedly pokes holes in, but it certainly doesn't support a narrative in which his shooting was anything but murder, so it doesn't poke any meaningful holes in the significant part of the narrative.

[SDC]

This entire situation is crazy, but it probably shouldn't be. From the (limited) time I spent doing ride alongs, and having several law enforcement officers in my family, minorities (and especially black guys) are incredibly more likely to have a weapon drawn on them than anyone else. Even if there are 95% good guys in the department, it helps breed racism. Giving people "above the law" authority to operate around citizens calls to a select group of people, especially considering the poor pay for police officers. The same way the old say goes anyone who is crazy enough to run for president doesn't deserve to be president, I feel similar about many of people we let police our communities.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/22/viewpo ... es-murder/

So, it’s just fake to pretend that the association of young black men with violence comes out of thin air. Young black men murder 14 times more than young white men. If the kinds of things I just mentioned were regularly done by whites, it’d be trumpeted as justification for being scared to death of them.

[SDC]

that video really did a lot of damage to The Narrative, didnt it?

What narrative?

That Michael Brown was a perfect human being who had never done anything wrong? Nobody was advancing that narrative.

that this is white vs black racism.

Nobody was advancing that narrative.

of course the media were. and it's stupid that the DOJ tried to prevent the exculpatory tape from being released.

so what we have here is another Duke Lacrosse, Tawana Brawley and Trayvon Martin.

[Indy]

This entire situation is crazy, but it probably shouldn't be. From the (limited) time I spent doing ride alongs, and having several law enforcement officers in my family, minorities (and especially black guys) are incredibly more likely to have a weapon drawn on them than anyone else. Even if there are 95% good guys in the department, it helps breed racism. Giving people "above the law" authority to operate around citizens calls to a select group of people, especially considering the poor pay for police officers. The same way the old say goes anyone who is crazy enough to run for president doesn't deserve to be president, I feel similar about many of people we let police our communities.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/22/viewpo ... es-murder/

So, it’s just fake to pretend that the association of young black men with violence comes out of thin air. Young black men murder 14 times more than young white men. If the kinds of things I just mentioned were regularly done by whites, it’d be trumpeted as justification for being scared to death of them.

Glad to know you haven't changed SDC.

[Cap]

There is nothing exculpatory about that tape.