Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

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Ladmo
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Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ladmo »

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/politics/ ... p-fascism/

Conservative warnings about Donald Trump have grown increasingly somber. At first he was just an entertainer; then he became a worrisome distraction, and soon, there was fear that he would permanently scar the reputation of the Republican Party.

But it was after Trump started calling for stronger surveillance of Muslim-Americans in the aftermath of the Paris terrorist attacks that a handful of conservatives ventured to call Trump's rhetoric something much more dangerous: fascism.

Since launching his campaign this summer, the billionaire real estate magnate has regularly deployed inflammatory rhetoric about immigrants -- particularly regarding Latinos -- and repeatedly raised the alarm about foreigners entering the country. That has escalated following the series of shooting rampages and explosions in Paris this month allegedly perpetrated by ISIS and amid a national debate over accepting Syrian refugees.

Most striking has been Trump's aim at Muslims in the United States. He's been widely denounced for claiming that people in New Jersey — a state with "large Arab populations," he said — cheered after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. That, coupled with his seeming endorsement of a national registry to track Muslims in the country, has sparked a new level of condemnation from conservatives already on edge about Trump's endurance.

"Trump is a fascist. And that's not a term I use loosely or often. But he's earned it," tweeted Max Boot, a conservative fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations who is advising Marco Rubio.

"Forced federal registration of US citizens, based on religious identity, is fascism. Period. Nothing else to call it," Jeb Bush national security adviser John Noonan wrote on Twitter.

Conservative Iowa radio host Steve Deace, who has endorsed Ted Cruz, also used the "F" word last week: "If Obama proposed the same religion registry as Trump every conservative in the country would call it what it is -- creeping fascism."

Even one GOP presidential hopeful -- albeit a little-known candidate barely registering in the polls -- has used this language. In an interview with Newsmax TV on Friday, former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore said Trump's immigration policies, including the idea of creating a "deportation force" to remove undocumented immigrants from the country, amounted to "fascist talk."

Opinion: A Donald Trump presidency? Yikes

The fresh accusations of fascist behavior are extraordinarily charged -- the term is often equated with Nazism. The use of such a loaded word marks one more step in the evolution of the establishment's view of Trump, from a political clown to something much more malevolent and dangerous.

Donald Trump vs. the Republican establishment

And it also reflects an increasingly visible and acute level of frustration and disbelief about Trump within the GOP, as Republicans view Trump's candidacy as an explosive mixture of economic populism with strongman personality politics. While it's unclear whether Trump is motivated by any coherent political philosophy, it's hard to recall another recent presidential candidate who has campaigned so openly on solving problems by sheer personal will.

Jindal: Trump is a madman who must be stopped

The Trump campaign did not respond to a request for comment. Boot and Deace couldn't be reached for comment, and a Bush spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on behalf of Noonan.

Academics who study fascism say that while Trump seems to have an authoritarian sensibility, his behavior doesn't meet the dictionary definition of fascism. The term describes an overtly anti-democratic movement that suppresses all opposition as a way to fulfill political goals, and a fascist leader is a dictator that wishes to exercise complete control, even by condoning violence.

Scholars of fascists like Benito Mussolini in Italy and Adolf Hitler in Germany (none of Trump's conservative critics have compared him to either man) say, however, that Trump does display some of the key characteristics of a fascist. His comments about a national registry for Muslim-Americans, together with his propensity to stir up anti-immigrant and xenophobic sentiments among his supporters, amount to a perception of hostility toward ethnic and religious minority groups.

Obama on Trump's immigration plan: 'That's not who we are as Americans'

"The most recent comment he said about creating a national registry of all Muslims -- that's very dangerous," said Steve Ross, a professor of history and scholar of fascism at the University of Southern California.

Ross, who proposes the label "right-wing bully" for Trump, said he can certainly understand why the question has come up. "You're talking about an American government that would move towards the persecution of citizens and people living within its own country," he said. "That is why people are saying, 'Gee, if you follow this through, it's fascism.' "

Opinion: Donald Trump's horrifying words about Muslims

"Fascism sometimes becomes an attribute to describe someone that is intolerant or totalitarian or even racist," said Federico Finchelstein, an expert on fascism at the New School who said Trump is better described a populist. "When dealing with an important part of the nation such as Hispanics, I think he definitely fits those categories."

When a reporter asked Trump last week how a national database of Muslims would be different from the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany, Trump responded: "You tell me."

Opinion: Donald Trump's bizarre statements

Historians say they see other characteristics of fascism in Trump in addition to his propensity for racial and ethnic stereotyping. Among them: nativist undertones, attempts to control the media; and even condoning violence against his critics.

At a Trump campaign rally in Birmingham, Alabama, a black protester was physically attacked by a handful of Trump fans in the crowd. Video captured by CNN shows the man being shoved to the ground, punched and at one point even kicked. The next day, Trump drew fierce backlash when he said that perhaps "he should have been roughed up."

The sentiment was then echoed by Trump's senior counsel Michael Cohen. "Every now and then an agitator deserves it," Cohen said on CNN's "New Day" Tuesday morning.

Ross said the incident illustrates behavior that is only steps removed from fascism.

Opinion: Donald Trump, media manipulator in chief

"We had the same thing happening in Germany in the 1920s with people being roughed up by the Brownshirts and they deserved it because they were Jews and Marxists and radicals and dissidents and gypsies — that was what Hitler was saying," Ross said. "I'm not saying Trump is Hitler, but the logic of condoning violence against those who oppose you -- you can imagine, a man who would condone it as a candidate -- what would he do as an official president?"

Trump's interactions with the media — in particular, his attempts to shut out reporters critical of his campaign —have also shown authoritarian tendencies.

Donald Trump bars Univision reporters because of lawsuit

The businessman regularly lashes out at reporters who give unfavorable coverage, and his campaign has denied credentials to journalists as retribution. Trump has more than once boycotted appearing on Fox News, in protest of what he has deemed unfair treatment.

"What they expect from the media is praise. This is another element in this character and in other leaders of this type, which is that they are extremely messianic and narcissistic," said Finchelstein. "Whatever they see, they see as a personal attack against them."

History professor Robert Paxton of Columbia University, who has studied the rise and spread of fascism, said he would not call Trump a fascist. But Paxton also said he can understand why some people might be inclined to point out similarities between Trump and fascist leaders.

"He's good at making astonishing speeches that make people sit up and take notice. So there's some of that manipulation of public emotions that is visible with Trump," Paxton said. "Hitler and Mussolini -- no one had ever seen public rallies like the meetings they'd have. People were absolutely mesmerized."
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Ladmo
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ladmo »

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Ladmo
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ladmo »

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Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.

Ladmo
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ladmo »

http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/edi ... -rejected/

Donald Trump’s creeping fascism needs to be rejected

It’s time for the Republican Party and the American people to call out and condemn Donald Trump for his xenophobia and race-baiting. His message, much of it predicated on lies, needs to be rejected.


By Seattle Times editorial board
The Seattle Times

DONALD Trump, the leading Republican presidential candidate is, in Trump parlance, a huge demagogue. Button-pushing lie after button-pushing lie, he diminishes the public sphere.

It’s time for Trump’s fellow Republicans to speak truth to narcissism. Race-baiting and xenophobia, ignited by fabrication, reflect the worst in human nature. And Trump’s self-financed platform makes his rhetoric a menace to the social and political health of the nation.

Recent Trump-isms nearly trump earlier ones, including his insistence that the government of Mexico dumped rapists and murderers into the United States. After the Paris terrorist attacks, he said that he would implement a registry for Muslims. Trump was asked by a reporter how this approach would differ from Germany registering Jews in the 1930s. “You tell me,” Trump said.

OK. There’s zero difference.

Trump said that he saw “thousands and thousands of people cheering” in Jersey City on 9/11. That was a lie, designed to provoke. At a Trump rally in Birmingham Saturday, a Black Lives Matter activist was punched by a white Trump supporter. Trump’s response? “Maybe he should have been roughed up.”

Enough. Trump needs to be called out and condemned for what he is.

We have seen lesser-angel populists before. Running as an independent, George Wallace, the consummate bigot who later renounced his record of discrimination, actually won five states and 10 million votes in 1968.

Trump has an Archie Bunker rhetorical style, which resonates with Americans who might not agree with him but who furtively embrace his assault on political correctness. Unisex toilets and cops who give away Doritos at Hempfest? Trump would have a field day in Seattle.

When assessing what Trump means, more people in public life should revive the question attorney Joseph Welch asked U.S. Sen. Joe McCarthy during the 1954 Army-McCarthy hearings: “Have you no sense of decency?”

There is a bottom line, and it’s simple: Trump’s campaign message reflects a kind of creeping fascism. It needs to be rejected.
Editorial board members are editorial page editor Kate Riley, Frank A. Blethen, Ryan Blethen, Brier Dudley, Mark Higgins, Jonathan Martin, Thanh Tan, Blanca Torres, William K. Blethen (emeritus) and Robert C. Blethen (emeritus).
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
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Mori Chu
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Mori Chu »

Ladmo: I hope it is clear to you at this point that you have essentially killed the Politics area. Look at all of the threads.

Last post: Ladmo.
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It's just become an echo chamber for you to spam liberal opinions and anti-Republican attack links.

Ladmo
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ladmo »

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Ghost
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ghost »

Ladmo wrote:[ Image ]
You just called yourself a fool.

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Ghost
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ghost »

Mori Chu wrote:Ladmo: I hope it is clear to you at this point that you have essentially killed the Politics area. Look at all of the threads.

Last post: Ladmo.
Last post: Ladmo.
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It's just become an echo chamber for you to spam liberal opinions and anti-Republican attack links.
Ladmo doesn't add much of value by spamming the folder, but it was already dead. I don't think it's fair to butch about him commenting when nobody else does. There are only a small number of us who even open this forum, and with Dan being gone, there is no intelligent other side of the story to be had here.

If people wanted to talk here, I think they would. Lad isn't that hard to ignore. And most of us do ignore most of what he says. You knew as you typed your post that his ears are deaf to criticism, constructive or not.

If he's here, the choice is to ignore him and go on with life as usual, which means a forum where the active posters, aside from one drive by poster who is useless, just agree with each other aside from semantics, or to argue with him, which means "reason with him." Because there is no difference to him.

Either way, the forum is dead, which is a real shame because I have no interest in the NBA anymore and am very behind on the walking dead.

I miss Dan.


Sent from my Nexus 6 to annoy Superbone using Tapatalk

Ladmo
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ladmo »

Thank you Ghost, I appreciate the effort.
You do realize I was making a point by being self-deprecating, don't you?

Okay, here's the argument that I keep hearing, and it's so totally laughable I'm surprised it keeps being made;

"By disseminating information you have rendered our opinions completely meaningless!!!"

Okay then, you're welcome.

Maybe now you can actually spend your time and efforts in a more meaningful way than indulging yourself into this void, (I hate to burst your bubbles here, but your opinions are already worthless here) because I would bet anything that none of you have spent a moment or a penny involved with any political activities in your lives. But hearing yourselves bloviate? Sure, that kills some time... Until that darned Ladmo came in here with his facts and journalism, ooooo, FOILED AGAIN!!!

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Nodack
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Nodack »

Ladmo posting a lot here doesn't bother me at all. Maybe it's because I agree with a lot of the posts or maybe I appreciate anybody taking the time to voice their opinions here when so few do.

I don't converse wth Ladmo anymore because anything I say even if it's a compliment he assumes he's being attacked and goes into a three page tirade of all the perceived wrongs done to him over the past decade.

If somebody lights into him he is instantly the victim being persecuted by a group of evil people conspiring against him.

If he lights into somebody using his full arsenal of curses and insults and they take offense to it they are just being too sensitive and it was all in jest.

Ladmo and I agree on a lot of things but, it is impossible to have a conversation with him.

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Indy
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Indy »

Ladmo and I agree on a lot of things but, it is impossible to have a conversation with him.
I think that is partially true, and to some extent is why the forum here is mostly dead (and Dan leaving). It is just hard to have true debate here, unfortunately. Honestly, this side of the site is what kept me coming back more often than the Suns talk.

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Nodack
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Nodack »

Debating people from the other party almost never goes well. They disagree with you and they know they are right and you are wrong. You know you are right and they are wrong. Both sides get frustrated by the brick wall they are up against and start insulting each other. It happens all over the world from us low life's all the way up to the top politicians. We all suck.

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Indy
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:Debating people from the other party almost never goes well. They disagree with you and they know they are right and you are wrong. You know you are right and they are wrong. Both sides get frustrated by the brick wall they are up against and start insulting each other. It happens all over the world from us low life's all the way up to the top politicians. We all suck.
I disagree. I think it is the only way to get ahead in this world.

Without dissent, there can be no progress.

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Nodack
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Nodack »

There has been plenty of dissent around lately and not a whole lot of progress.

Ladmo
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ladmo »

Oh please. I have gone on no tirades, and I have done no spamming.

And Nodack, when have you ever tried having a conversation with me without saying you refuse to have a conversation with me? Maybe it's that, or the exaggerated hyperbole about "three pages" of replies that's getting in the way of the conversation you admittedly refuse to have.

And another thing, since when is posting a political story on a political folder spamming, but raging on and on, over and over and over again, about someone who does that not spamming? That might just be a bit dramatic, and more than a little unhinged from reality.

In fact, I was more than happy talking about MST3K and Jessica Jones until Dildo Johnson decided to start this shit up again with his "slowly I turned" routine.

[youtube][/youtube]

I don't see why you guys can't have a healthy debate if that's what you want to do, I don't see how anything I'm doing is preventing that. Boy, I've REALLY gained some superpower I never knew I had if that's somehow the case. Is it that I am like political kryptonite, or could it be, just maybe, that it's really just all in some people's heads?
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.

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Indy
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:There has been plenty of dissent around lately and not a whole lot of progress.
I never said it was easy. :p

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Mori Chu
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Mori Chu »

Ladmo, last warning.

Ladmo
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Ladmo »

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Mori Chu
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Mori Chu »

I'm not upset about being called "Dildo Johnson," but I'm also a busy person who has run out of patience with Ladmo's brand of posting in the Politics thread. I have decided for the time being to ban Ladmo. I felt he was posting here too frequently and with too much vitriol. I didn't think his messages were good for this area of the site. I never feel good banning someone, but in this case I think he would be better off making his posts on some other politically focused site instead.

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Indy
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Re: Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist

Post by Indy »

I agree with everything you said, except the banning part. Just my opinion.

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