Who would you pick if we (OGW-willing) landed #1?

[Indy]

I think the more people read about Doncic and watch some actual games of him the more will they lean towards him. It's that simple IMO..

Welcome, Democritus!

I've watched quite a bit of Doncic including all the Eurocup games last year, and I think he's great, love him. That being said, I would take Ayton #1 ahead of him.

Thanks, man. I guess I overvalue the decision-making aspect of any given player rather than athleticism. That is why I was fascinated by Kidd, Nash etc. I really think Doncic can lead us to the promised land and Booker will conquer that land.

I love players like that too. Unfortunately, not very many have won a title without a dominate big with them. Seems that Doncic and Ayton are friends along with having the same agent. If they are determined to play with each other, perhaps there may be a way to make it happen and I think Phx is the only team to be able to make it happen.

How many rings in the last 10 years has come with a dominant center?

[AmareIsGod]

Doncic it is! Ayton is a scrub and dinosaur in baketball. Teams don't need such a lacking big man setting back their franchise. Give me 12 ppg, 3 rebounds and 4 assists from a proven Euro Champ for the next several years at the #1 pick. Meanwhile, if Ayton ends up close to or better than KAT, who's he's compared to but has performed better offensively before being drafted.

[specialsauce]

Doncic it is! Ayton is a scrub and dinosaur in baketball. Teams don't need such a lacking big man setting back their franchise. Give me 12 ppg, 3 rebounds and 4 assists from a proven Euro Champ for the next several years at the #1 pick. Meanwhile, if Ayton ends up close to or better than KAT, who's he's compared to but has performed better offensively before being drafted.

Lol. I can tell you’re very annoyed by the Doncic slant on this board. I’m more on the Ayton side but I don’t think anyone really knows who will really end up the better pro player. The good news is I think both will end up being solid pieces for any team.

[AmareIsGod]

Everyone is clamouring for Doncic. The same guy that couldn't get past his European defender in the championship and finished 3 for 8 with 3 assists and 4 rebounds. Pretty ho hum numbers. On a #1 pick? Is this board going mad?

He is facing better defenders than anybody in the NCAA. His team won the championship, and he was finals MVP.

Ready to apply that same line of reasoning to Ayton, who had a bad game and was eliminated in the first round? Against a small ball team on which more than half the players will never go pro in any league.

THIS. You can't say that about Luka and not about Ayton two times over. How many of the final 4 teams in Euro League would beat their final four opponent in NCAA?

Lol. Only a fool would think that UofA squad would go far. Do you really think Miller is a good offensive coach and knew how to play to a player like Ayton? He wasn't used nearly enough. It's a totally off base comparison of teams.

[Indy]

Doncic it is! Ayton is a scrub and dinosaur in baketball. Teams don't need such a lacking big man setting back their franchise. Give me 12 ppg, 3 rebounds and 4 assists from a proven Euro Champ for the next several years at the #1 pick. Meanwhile, if Ayton ends up close to or better than KAT, who's he's compared to but has performed better offensively before being drafted.

It has to be all of nothing with you... Don't forget how quickly you anoint people, Spivey.

Yes, if Doncic ends up averaging 12/3/4 in the NBA, and Ayton is better than KAT, clearly Ayton would be the better choice. Lots of ifs in there...

[Cap]

I think the more people read about Doncic and watch some actual games of him the more will they lean towards him. It's that simple IMO..

Welcome, Democritus!

I've watched quite a bit of Doncic including all the Eurocup games last year, and I think he's great, love him. That being said, I would take Ayton #1 ahead of him.

Thanks, man. I guess I overvalue the decision-making aspect of any given player rather than athleticism. That is why I was fascinated by Kidd, Nash etc. I really think Doncic can lead us to the promised land and Booker will conquer that land.

I love players like that too. Unfortunately, not very many have won a title without a dominate big with them. Seems that Doncic and Ayton are friends along with having the same agent. If they are determined to play with each other, perhaps there may be a way to make it happen and I think Phx is the only team to be able to make it happen.

How many rings in the last 10 years has come with a dominant center?

So, Kendrick Perkins, Andrew Bynum, Udonis Haslem, Andrew Bogut and Zaza Pachulia aren’t dominant centers?


How about Tyson Chandler and Tristan Thompson?

No? OK, then I guess it’s just Duncan.

On the other hand, if you look just before that 10-year window, you see a nine-year stretch with four Shaqs, four Duncans, and a Ben Wallace.

[Mori Chu]

Doncic it is! Ayton is a scrub and dinosaur in baketball. Teams don't need such a lacking big man setting back their franchise. Give me 12 ppg, 3 rebounds and 4 assists from a proven Euro Champ for the next several years at the #1 pick. Meanwhile, if Ayton ends up close to or better than KAT, who's he's compared to but has performed better offensively before being drafted.

It's not surprising that a poster who likes Amare so much would also like Ayton. There's a bit of similarity between the two.

I don't think Ayton will be a scrub. I actually think a team with both Ayton and Doncic would be pretty interesting. I just like Doncic more.

[In2ition]

I think the more people read about Doncic and watch some actual games of him the more will they lean towards him. It's that simple IMO..

Welcome, Democritus!

I've watched quite a bit of Doncic including all the Eurocup games last year, and I think he's great, love him. That being said, I would take Ayton #1 ahead of him.

Thanks, man. I guess I overvalue the decision-making aspect of any given player rather than athleticism. That is why I was fascinated by Kidd, Nash etc. I really think Doncic can lead us to the promised land and Booker will conquer that land.

I love players like that too. Unfortunately, not very many have won a title without a dominate big with them. Seems that Doncic and Ayton are friends along with having the same agent. If they are determined to play with each other, perhaps there may be a way to make it happen and I think Phx is the only team to be able to make it happen.

How many rings in the last 10 years has come with a dominant center?

Would you consider Gasol, Bynum or Duncan dominate centers?

Honestly, I think this has more to do with many other reasons like not having good coaching of post positions, just not having great centers prospects for more than 10 years, and decent post players not being able to shoot freethrows, which limits their effectiveness at the end of the game [r punishing defenders by putting them in foul trouble. I will agree that some of the rule changes has limited the effectiveness of the traditional center, but how many athletes with this size have shown up in the NBA in the past 15 years? Combine that with the skill set he has, it's been far too long, imo.

[Cap]

Welcome, Democritus!

I've watched quite a bit of Doncic including all the Eurocup games last year, and I think he's great, love him. That being said, I would take Ayton #1 ahead of him.

Thanks, man. I guess I overvalue the decision-making aspect of any given player rather than athleticism. That is why I was fascinated by Kidd, Nash etc. I really think Doncic can lead us to the promised land and Booker will conquer that land.

I love players like that too. Unfortunately, not very many have won a title without a dominate big with them. Seems that Doncic and Ayton are friends along with having the same agent. If they are determined to play with each other, perhaps there may be a way to make it happen and I think Phx is the only team to be able to make it happen.

How many rings in the last 10 years has come with a dominant center?

Would you consider Gasol, Bynum or Duncan dominate centers?

Honestly, I think this has more to do with many other reasons like not having good coaching of post positions, just not having great centers prospects for more than 10 years, and decent post players not being able to shoot freethrows, which limits their effectiveness at the end of the game [r punishing defenders by putting them in foul trouble. I will agree that some of the rule changes has limited the effectiveness of the traditional center, but how many athletes with this size have shown up in the NBA in the past 15 years? Combine that with the skill set he has, it's been far too long, imo.

His size may be overrated. He stands 7’1”, but his standing reach is “only” 9’3”, and wingspan 7’5”. Compare this to Rudy Gobert at 9’9” and 7’9”. Or Mo Bamba at 9’7.5” and 7’10”.

[In2ition]

Don't get me wrong, I love Doncic and players like that. I think he would do wonders for this Suns team. In fact I think of Doncic as a combo of Magic and Bird. Whereas LeBron was Magic and MJ. And I believe the Suns will win with him.

I guess I think you are not going to beat the Warriors at their own game. I think you'll have to flip the script on them and punish them and create a team in a different way. GS doesn't have a player that will be able to eliminate Ayton, and will be forced to try to put their 7th or 8th best player on the court to try to match up with him. This hurts them, and then slows the game down a little if Ayton keeps going to the line while hitting freethrows.

[Indy]

Welcome, Democritus!

I've watched quite a bit of Doncic including all the Eurocup games last year, and I think he's great, love him. That being said, I would take Ayton #1 ahead of him.

Thanks, man. I guess I overvalue the decision-making aspect of any given player rather than athleticism. That is why I was fascinated by Kidd, Nash etc. I really think Doncic can lead us to the promised land and Booker will conquer that land.

I love players like that too. Unfortunately, not very many have won a title without a dominate big with them. Seems that Doncic and Ayton are friends along with having the same agent. If they are determined to play with each other, perhaps there may be a way to make it happen and I think Phx is the only team to be able to make it happen.

How many rings in the last 10 years has come with a dominant center?

Would you consider Gasol, Bynum or Duncan dominate centers?

Honestly, I think this has more to do with many other reasons like not having good coaching of post positions, just not having great centers prospects for more than 10 years, and decent post players not being able to shoot freethrows, which limits their effectiveness at the end of the game [r punishing defenders by putting them in foul trouble. I will agree that some of the rule changes has limited the effectiveness of the traditional center, but how many athletes with this size have shown up in the NBA in the past 15 years? Combine that with the skill set he has, it's been far too long, imo.

I don't think that is new. Like cap said, if you go back 20 years ago, we had 9 straight years of Shaq, Duncan, and Ben Wallace. Wallace was below 50%, Shaq below 60%, and Duncan was below 70% from the line. Those guys were dominant, but weren't going to punish a team for fouling them.

[Indy]

Don't get me wrong, I love Doncic and players like that. I think he would do wonders for this Suns team. In fact I think of Doncic as a combo of Magic and Bird. Whereas LeBron was Magic and MJ. And I believe the Suns will win with him.

I guess I think you are not going to beat the Warriors at their own game. I think you'll have to flip the script on them and punish them and create a team in a different way. GS doesn't have a player that will be able to eliminate Ayton, and will be forced to try to put their 7th or 8th best player on the court to try to match up with him. This hurts them, and then slows the game down a little if Ayton keeps going to the line while hitting freethrows.

doesn't that go both ways? and maybe he shooting will get way better, but taking 1 3P a game, and only making 34% at the college distance isn't a great indicator that he will be able to shoot 3s in the NBA. That will limit his ability to pull good defenders away from the rim, or even honor him on PnR.

[In2ition]

Thanks, man. I guess I overvalue the decision-making aspect of any given player rather than athleticism. That is why I was fascinated by Kidd, Nash etc. I really think Doncic can lead us to the promised land and Booker will conquer that land.

I love players like that too. Unfortunately, not very many have won a title without a dominate big with them. Seems that Doncic and Ayton are friends along with having the same agent. If they are determined to play with each other, perhaps there may be a way to make it happen and I think Phx is the only team to be able to make it happen.

How many rings in the last 10 years has come with a dominant center?

Would you consider Gasol, Bynum or Duncan dominate centers?

Honestly, I think this has more to do with many other reasons like not having good coaching of post positions, just not having great centers prospects for more than 10 years, and decent post players not being able to shoot freethrows, which limits their effectiveness at the end of the game [r punishing defenders by putting them in foul trouble. I will agree that some of the rule changes has limited the effectiveness of the traditional center, but how many athletes with this size have shown up in the NBA in the past 15 years? Combine that with the skill set he has, it's been far too long, imo.

His size may be overrated. He stands 7’1”, but his standing reach is “only” 9’3”, and wingspan 7’5”. Compare this to Rudy Gobert at 9’9” and 7’9”. Or Mo Bamba at 9’7.5” and 7’10”.

So he doesn't have the dimensions of Gobert or Bamba, but he has the girth, strength, quickness and athleticism at 19 to exceed them on the perimeter and in the post. I've seen him be matched up on an island with a perimeter player and contest and keep them bottled up, even with some good moves. I've seen Gobert and Bamba get blown up and humiliated on the perimeter, moreso Gobert.

[In2ition]

Thanks, man. I guess I overvalue the decision-making aspect of any given player rather than athleticism. That is why I was fascinated by Kidd, Nash etc. I really think Doncic can lead us to the promised land and Booker will conquer that land.

I love players like that too. Unfortunately, not very many have won a title without a dominate big with them. Seems that Doncic and Ayton are friends along with having the same agent. If they are determined to play with each other, perhaps there may be a way to make it happen and I think Phx is the only team to be able to make it happen.

How many rings in the last 10 years has come with a dominant center?

Would you consider Gasol, Bynum or Duncan dominate centers?

Honestly, I think this has more to do with many other reasons like not having good coaching of post positions, just not having great centers prospects for more than 10 years, and decent post players not being able to shoot freethrows, which limits their effectiveness at the end of the game [r punishing defenders by putting them in foul trouble. I will agree that some of the rule changes has limited the effectiveness of the traditional center, but how many athletes with this size have shown up in the NBA in the past 15 years? Combine that with the skill set he has, it's been far too long, imo.

I don't think that is new. Like cap said, if you go back 20 years ago, we had 9 straight years of Shaq, Duncan, and Ben Wallace. Wallace was below 50%, Shaq below 60%, and Duncan was below 70% from the line. Those guys were dominant, but weren't going to punish a team for fouling them.

Yes, so this makes him a bit of an outlier and unicorn from this perspective.

[In2ition]

Don't get me wrong, I love Doncic and players like that. I think he would do wonders for this Suns team. In fact I think of Doncic as a combo of Magic and Bird. Whereas LeBron was Magic and MJ. And I believe the Suns will win with him.

I guess I think you are not going to beat the Warriors at their own game. I think you'll have to flip the script on them and punish them and create a team in a different way. GS doesn't have a player that will be able to eliminate Ayton, and will be forced to try to put their 7th or 8th best player on the court to try to match up with him. This hurts them, and then slows the game down a little if Ayton keeps going to the line while hitting freethrows.

doesn't that go both ways? and maybe he shooting will get way better, but taking 1 3P a game, and only making 34% at the college distance isn't a great indicator that he will be able to shoot 3s in the NBA. That will limit his ability to pull good defenders away from the rim, or even honor him on PnR.

I find his numbers from 3 pt a bonus, but I wouldn't expect him to come into the NBA and launch 5 3s a game or just hang out on the perimeter because of the promise of a decent %. Wouldn't that limit his effectiveness? You put him into good positions to succeed and the team to succeed.

[JCSunsfan]

Thanks, man. I guess I overvalue the decision-making aspect of any given player rather than athleticism. That is why I was fascinated by Kidd, Nash etc. I really think Doncic can lead us to the promised land and Booker will conquer that land.

I love players like that too. Unfortunately, not very many have won a title without a dominate big with them. Seems that Doncic and Ayton are friends along with having the same agent. If they are determined to play with each other, perhaps there may be a way to make it happen and I think Phx is the only team to be able to make it happen.

How many rings in the last 10 years has come with a dominant center?

Would you consider Gasol, Bynum or Duncan dominate centers?

Honestly, I think this has more to do with many other reasons like not having good coaching of post positions, just not having great centers prospects for more than 10 years, and decent post players not being able to shoot freethrows, which limits their effectiveness at the end of the game [r punishing defenders by putting them in foul trouble. I will agree that some of the rule changes has limited the effectiveness of the traditional center, but how many athletes with this size have shown up in the NBA in the past 15 years? Combine that with the skill set he has, it's been far too long, imo.

His size may be overrated. He stands 7’1”, but his standing reach is “only” 9’3”, and wingspan 7’5”. Compare this to Rudy Gobert at 9’9” and 7’9”. Or Mo Bamba at 9’7.5” and 7’10”.

Those numbers don't make sense to me. Do they measure standing reach on tip toe and some people have longer feet than others?

[Cap]

Don't get me wrong, I love Doncic and players like that. I think he would do wonders for this Suns team. In fact I think of Doncic as a combo of Magic and Bird. Whereas LeBron was Magic and MJ. And I believe the Suns will win with him.

I guess I think you are not going to beat the Warriors at their own game. I think you'll have to flip the script on them and punish them and create a team in a different way. GS doesn't have a player that will be able to eliminate Ayton, and will be forced to try to put their 7th or 8th best player on the court to try to match up with him. This hurts them, and then slows the game down a little if Ayton keeps going to the line while hitting freethrows.

doesn't that go both ways? and maybe he shooting will get way better, but taking 1 3P a game, and only making 34% at the college distance isn't a great indicator that he will be able to shoot 3s in the NBA. That will limit his ability to pull good defenders away from the rim, or even honor him on PnR.

I find his numbers from 3 pt a bonus, but I wouldn't expect him to come into the NBA and launch 5 3s a game or just hang out on the perimeter because of the promise of a decent %. Wouldn't that limit his effectiveness? You put him into good positions to succeed and the team to succeed.

Limiting him to any one type of scoring would limit his effectiveness, no matter what that type is. Just because he develops a three-point shot into an important part of his arsenal doesn’t mean he’s going to spend all his time just hanging out on the perimeter. But if the defense is giving him the shot and he can hit it, he should put himself in a position to take it.

[Split T]

2 things:

If your wingspan is aided by really broad shoulders, your standing reach could be shorter.

Also, if you have an extra long neck, your standing reach could be shorter.

One extra: something weird happened in the measuring process.

Shake Milton has some weird measurements to me. He measured at 6'5.5 with a 7'1 wingspan and his standing reach was the same as guys 6'3 with 6'8 winspans. Seems like a mistake to me.

[EDC]

I think Ayton has a high ceiling but one of the comments that keep popping up is that his coach and guards didn't know how to utilize him properly. If only they would have gotten the ball to him more often he would have done much better. That comment sounds familiar.

[AmareIsGod]

I love players like that too. Unfortunately, not very many have won a title without a dominate big with them. Seems that Doncic and Ayton are friends along with having the same agent. If they are determined to play with each other, perhaps there may be a way to make it happen and I think Phx is the only team to be able to make it happen.

How many rings in the last 10 years has come with a dominant center?

Would you consider Gasol, Bynum or Duncan dominate centers?

Honestly, I think this has more to do with many other reasons like not having good coaching of post positions, just not having great centers prospects for more than 10 years, and decent post players not being able to shoot freethrows, which limits their effectiveness at the end of the game [r punishing defenders by putting them in foul trouble. I will agree that some of the rule changes has limited the effectiveness of the traditional center, but how many athletes with this size have shown up in the NBA in the past 15 years? Combine that with the skill set he has, it's been far too long, imo.

His size may be overrated. He stands 7’1”, but his standing reach is “only” 9’3”, and wingspan 7’5”. Compare this to Rudy Gobert at 9’9” and 7’9”. Or Mo Bamba at 9’7.5” and 7’10”.

Those numbers don't make sense to me. Do they measure standing reach on tip toe and some people have longer feet than others?

It also disregards his 44" vertical that launches his "overrated" size. People will do all they can to sell themselves on a narrative.

Doncic didn't play PG in Euro League. He's not playing PG here. You draft him and he joins a crowded SF position. You still need a PG and a big. You draft Ayton and you just need a PG. Not sure why everyone thinks Doncic solves all of our problems but Ayton is just a liability.