Suns Trade Dudley; Acquire Richaun Holmes

[Mori Chu]

INF making a lot of sense in this thread.

[Ring_Wanted]

It is undeniable that we have an issue with the logjam at forward and the lack of a clear PG.

If you want to win you can't enter the season with a roster like that, especially when there are so many kids around.

I won't consider this offseason more than a 'wait and see' if we don't solve these problems, particularly because there were a ton of options for us that could have allowed me a clean feeling of hope and wellness.

[Superbone]

I provided my option that I thought would be better: just don't sign Ariza, and keep the cap space. Give the minutes to young guys like Bender, Chriss, and Warren at the 4. Keep the cap flexibility to acquire a player(s) during the season to address needs once we know what we have, and/or to help facilitate a trade and acquire an asset/pick.

You know. Continue the mediocrity.

Well let's get one thing straight: the Suns have been abysmal; mediocrity would be improvement.

Moreover, people need to stop heralding Ariza as the ultimate win-now move. The Suns should be better because:

1. They just drafted a "generational talent"
2. They got rid of their joke of a coach that so many here were giddy over, and it looks like his replacement is actually a legitimate coach
3. They won't be randomly benching their good players and starting a whole bunch of G-Leaguers

None of those reasons have anything to do with Trevor Ariza. And all of those reasons should be enough to be drastic improvement from last season. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Suns should have stopped at those three changes; I just don't want to pretend like spending $15 million on a role player that plays the same position as 80% of our freaking roster is the only way this team was going to get serious about winning.

If you don't think Ariza is going to make a difference for this team starting at PF over Chriss/Bender, I don't know what to tell you. We'll just have to revisit this at the end of November.

[INFORMER]

If you don't think Ariza is going to make a difference for this team starting at PF over Chriss/Bender, I don't know what to tell you.

That's a weird response. My post wasn't a comparison between Chriss/Bender and Ariza. I really don't like any of those three players getting substantial minutes at power forward.

[INFORMER]

I'm also starting to think that we'll see Ariza at the 3, Warren at the 4, and Jackson coming off the bench.

[jonh]

I'm also starting to think that we'll see Ariza at the 3, Warren at the 4, and Jackson coming off the bench.

I think they might be interchangeable--it looks like they are listed at the same height, with Warren weighing more. I don't know the differences in their arm-span (maybe Ariza is slightly longer).

[Indy]

I provided my option that I thought would be better: just don't sign Ariza, and keep the cap space. Give the minutes to young guys like Bender, Chriss, and Warren at the 4. Keep the cap flexibility to acquire a player(s) during the season to address needs once we know what we have, and/or to help facilitate a trade and acquire an asset/pick.

You know. Continue the mediocrity.

Well let's get one thing straight: the Suns have been abysmal; mediocrity would be improvement.

Moreover, people need to stop heralding Ariza as the ultimate win-now move. The Suns should be better because:

1. They just drafted a "generational talent"
2. They got rid of their joke of a coach that so many here were giddy over, and it looks like his replacement is actually a legitimate coach
3. They won't be randomly benching their good players and starting a whole bunch of G-Leaguers

None of those reasons have anything to do with Trevor Ariza. And all of those reasons should be enough to be drastic improvement from last season. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Suns should have stopped at those three changes; I just don't want to pretend like spending $15 million on a role player that plays the same position as 80% of our freaking roster is the only way this team was going to get serious about winning.

There is too much in this post I agree with to just say I agree. But I don't know what else to say. This all makes too much sense.

[Indy]

.net is great for people being sensitive about anything negative.

So true.

[JCSunsfan]

I'm also starting to think that we'll see Ariza at the 3, Warren at the 4, and Jackson coming off the bench.

I think they might be interchangeable--it looks like they are listed at the same height, with Warren weighing more. I don't know the differences in their arm-span (maybe Ariza is slightly longer).

I think what you are going to see is Ayton, Bender, Holmes, and Chriss playing the big.
Knight, Shaq, Booker, Okobo, playing lead guard.
And then Ariza, Warren, Jackson, Bridges, Bender, and even Chriss playing as just plain forwards.

While Igor said Booker won't be playing pg, I think he actually will quite a bit. ,

[Cap]

I think what you are going to see is Ayton, Bender, Holmes, and Chriss playing the big. ,

Chandler is still on the roster. You think he won’t play?

[JCSunsfan]

I think what you are going to see is Ayton, Bender, Holmes, and Chriss playing the big. ,

Chandler is still on the roster. You think he won’t play?

Just an oversight. However, he should not play much.

[AmareIsGod]

.net is great for people being sensitive about anything negative.

So true.

What's that supposed to mean!? I don't see anyone being sensitive about anything. Can you clarify? Can you provide examples? WOW.

[virtual9mm]

I think that we've reached a point in the summer where nothing new worth discussing will occur, short of a Warren trade (badly needed) or a Jackson trade (short-sighted over-reaction). I'm going to wait and see how DeAndre and the Four Wings will do in pre-season. An old-school Houston Rockets approach of surrounding a dominant center with four shooter/slashers? If Kokoskov puts together a good system, I can see it working quite well.

I full expect the Suns to win around 41 games -- and I think that the bar for reaching the playoffs will be lower than people might think because the competition out West is just a bit too intense. Much depends on DeAndre looking like Dwight Howard with a jump shot.

By the way, INF always speaks logic and sense. This doesn't mean that he's always right, and I think that folks are rightfully looking for something to be positive about.

[ShelC]

We did the 4-round offense under Frank Johnson when Marbury was here and Lil Jake just ran around setting screens. I guess it's not terrible if the personnel is right and it's more than a backup center just screening for the ball handlers. If SL is any indication, we'll have some of the better offensive sets in the league and it won't just be a big running around screening. I trust Igor will get our shooters (Ariza, Bridges, Booker) open looks from 3, and get our slashers (JJ, TJ) cutting off screens to get their looks from midrange or off the dribble. I'm just curious how much we'll play thru Ayton in the post and what we get from Chriss and Bender.

[Superbone]

.net is great for people being sensitive about anything negative.

So true.

What's that supposed to mean!? I don't see anyone being sensitive about anything. Can you clarify? Can you provide examples? WOW.

Translation: don't spoil their pity party, AIG.

[Cap]

.net is great for people being sensitive about anything negative.

So true.

What's that supposed to mean!? I don't see anyone being sensitive about anything. Can you clarify? Can you provide examples? WOW.

Translation: don't spoil their pity party, AIG.

I’m not being defensive. You’re the one who’s being defensive. Why is it always the other person who’s being defensive? Have you ever asked yourself that? Why don’t you ask yourself that?

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live ... utes/n9280

[AmareIsGod]

[Indy]

.net is great for people being sensitive about anything negative.

So true.

What's that supposed to mean!? I don't see anyone being sensitive about anything. Can you clarify? Can you provide examples? WOW.

this was great

[Indy]

.net is great for people being sensitive about anything negative.

So true.

What's that supposed to mean!? I don't see anyone being sensitive about anything. Can you clarify? Can you provide examples? WOW.

Translation: don't spoil their pity party, AIG.

I’m not being defensive. You’re the one who’s being defensive. Why is it always the other person who’s being defensive? Have you ever asked yourself that? Why don’t you ask yourself that?

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live ... utes/n9280

this too

[pickle]

As usual I'm late to the party... recently logged into .net to check up on fantasy and stayed for the chatter. I realize this thread has been inactive for a while but may not have the time to read the whole 100+ page thread before adding my 2 cents.

I agree with Inf's post that the team should be better for reasons other than signing Ariza. Regarding the Ariza signing itself, I had very mixed feelings. On the one hand I'm a little concerned that he's going to eat into the minutes of all the young guys who sorely need the on-court time to develop; on the other hand it is just a one year deal so other than minutes logjam there's no long term damage, and if he is a locker room presence as some in the media have claimed and can instill defensive minded focus into the young players, then I'm all for it. But I did also read that he was part of the raid party that went into the "secret tunnel" last year in LA, so I'm not sure how much veteran presence we are getting there. All in all I'm optimistically hopeful that Ariza can help set the defensive tone on the team.

In terms of him being an elite role player, perhaps he isn't a 40%+ three point shooter or an all NBA first team defender, but he is elite at playing a role, as in, he doesn't complain about his role like Shawn used to do, in that regard I do think he is elite.

Wondering what you guys think about the move now that we got Ryan Anderson in the mix...

I know that a good point guard is essential to the growth of other young players, but I also don't want to pick up a point guard just so we can say we have a starting caliber point guard. Of all the guys we've been linked to, I'm not terribly interested in LIllard -- he costs a lot, can lead us into the post season, but look where that got Portland; not sure what Delon Wright or Patrick Beverley can do in terms of setting up a team offense, love that they are pesky defenders but don't think they do much if we want leadership and player development; Kemba Walker is a pure scorer who isn't really know for defense or passing, plus he's a half year rental at this point; and I'm mildly interested in Scary Terry and Tyus Jones. Of the two, Rozier is also a low efficiency scorer more known for his defense than passing, plus we'd probably get taken advantage of by Ainge again, so maybe we can somehow take advantage of Minnesota's strange dynamics and get Jones. Too bad we don't have any ex-Bulls on the team. Maybe we can swing a three way trade, Chandler to NY, Noah to Wolves, and Jones and some dead salary to the Suns...