Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by In2ition » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:35 am

There is a belief out there that it was the Dems outed Northam after he admitted that they kill the babies post birth.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9965
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:13 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:35 am
There is a belief out there that it was the Dems outed Northam after he admitted that they kill the babies post birth.
That is incorrect. Having live, viable babies be delivered and then killing them, is not a thing that is ever done. The law mandates that doctors must keep alive any baby born live that has vital signs. If you think otherwise, you have been misled.

I know that the idea of abortions can be very upsetting to pro-choice folks, but the phrases and descriptions being tossed around lately are simply incorrect and intended to rile people up. "Infanticide," etc. That is not allowed and that is not what is done.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by In2ition » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:43 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:13 pm
In2ition wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:35 am
There is a belief out there that it was the Dems outed Northam after he admitted that they kill the babies post birth.
That is incorrect. Having live, viable babies be delivered and then killing them, is not a thing that is ever done. The law mandates that doctors must keep alive any baby born live that has vital signs. If you think otherwise, you have been misled.

I know that the idea of abortions can be very upsetting to pro-choice folks, but the phrases and descriptions being tossed around lately are simply incorrect and intended to rile people up. "Infanticide," etc. That is not allowed and that is not what is done.
It's exactly what Northam described, but even that I think abortions in the third trimester is abhorrent.

Like I said before, as long as the fetus is considered inhuman and disposable it will be subject to an abortion for whatever reason. Whatever the reason you think it's ok, someone else is going to think another reason is ok that you may not agree with. Northam never took back his words and was very careful to not leave out viable babies.(carefully listen to his words) You may not think that killing pos

t birth is coming, and it's already considered murder, but I guarantee it will be pushed until some governing body says the child holds protective rights and that could be week after birth or longer.

I know Marty you're going to deny this, and I wish you were right. We are treading dangerously and callously towards this future. I remember when it was beyond our comprehension to think that they would happen in the third trimester and now it's allowed by law until birth in states such as NY and many more are going to go down that road soon.

How many abortions and how late do they need to happen before this becomes as real social justice cause for someone who has no voice and is an innocent victim?

I consider preying on the innocent, be it sex trafficking, pedophilia, abuse or abortion to be the most henious of things. That's just my belief though.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge


User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9965
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:48 am

I do respect your view of being anti abortion. I know it is a deeply personal and painful political issue. I don't want to try to tell you how you should feel about it. My wife loathes abortion as well. If I am ever pressing the issue it is only to try to gain an accurate understanding of what is legal and what the various laws say.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by In2ition » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:35 am

I appreciate the article, Marty. I agree for the most part with this article and I appreciate that it wasn't written in any particular slanted bias from either side.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9965
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:36 am

In2ition wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:43 pm
That is incorrect. Having live, viable babies be delivered and then killing them, is not a thing that is ever done. The law mandates that doctors must keep alive any baby born live that has vital signs. If you think otherwise, you have been misled.

I know that the idea of abortions can be very upsetting to pro-choice folks, but the phrases and descriptions being tossed around lately are simply incorrect and intended to rile people up. "Infanticide," etc. That is not allowed and that is not what is done.
It's exactly what Northam described, but even that I think abortions in the third trimester is abhorrent.

Like I said before, as long as the fetus is considered inhuman and disposable it will be subject to an abortion for whatever reason. Whatever the reason you think it's ok, someone else is going to think another reason is ok that you may not agree with. Northam never took back his words and was very careful to not leave out viable babies.(carefully listen to his words) You may not think that killing post birth is coming, and it's already considered murder, but I guarantee it will be pushed until some governing body says the child holds protective rights and that could be week after birth or longer.

I know Marty you're going to deny this, and I wish you were right. We are treading dangerously and callously towards this future. I remember when it was beyond our comprehension to think that they would happen in the third trimester and now it's allowed by law until birth in states such as NY and many more are going to go down that road soon.

How many abortions and how late do they need to happen before this becomes as real social justice cause for someone who has no voice and is an innocent victim?

I consider preying on the innocent, be it sex trafficking, pedophilia, abuse or abortion to be the most henious of things. That's just my belief though.
[/quote]

I hadn't yet addressed the substance of this message. I don't know what the future will hold. But I haven't seen any liberals or Demcratic politicians, in public or private, saying that they favor the kind of radical abortion procedures you are describing. I have never heard someone say that they wish the law would allow live, viable babies to be born and then killed. That is something that I think everyone can agree is unacceptable and should not be allowed. I don't see any reason to believe that the law is trending in that direction since I cannot see any base of support for it. Frankly I think fear of such things is being stoked by conservative media without any real evidence to support it. If anything ever started to trend in that direction, I certainly would vote against it and speak out against it, as would every liberal I have spoken to on the subject.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by In2ition » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:15 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:43 pm
That is incorrect. Having live, viable babies be delivered and then killing them, is not a thing that is ever done. The law mandates that doctors must keep alive any baby born live that has vital signs. If you think otherwise, you have been misled.

I know that the idea of abortions can be very upsetting to pro-choice folks, but the phrases and descriptions being tossed around lately are simply incorrect and intended to rile people up. "Infanticide," etc. That is not allowed and that is not what is done.
It's exactly what Northam described, but even that I think abortions in the third trimester is abhorrent.

Like I said before, as long as the fetus is considered inhuman and disposable it will be subject to an abortion for whatever reason. Whatever the reason you think it's ok, someone else is going to think another reason is ok that you may not agree with. Northam never took back his words and was very careful to not leave out viable babies.(carefully listen to his words) You may not think that killing post birth is coming, and it's already considered murder, but I guarantee it will be pushed until some governing body says the child holds protective rights and that could be week after birth or longer.

I know Marty you're going to deny this, and I wish you were right. We are treading dangerously and callously towards this future. I remember when it was beyond our comprehension to think that they would happen in the third trimester and now it's allowed by law until birth in states such as NY and many more are going to go down that road soon.

How many abortions and how late do they need to happen before this becomes as real social justice cause for someone who has no voice and is an innocent victim?

I consider preying on the innocent, be it sex trafficking, pedophilia, abuse or abortion to be the most heinous of things. That's just my belief though.
[/quote]
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:36 am
I hadn't yet addressed the substance of this message. I don't know what the future will hold. But I haven't seen any liberals or Demcratic politicians, in public or private, saying that they favor the kind of radical abortion procedures you are describing. I have never heard someone say that they wish the law would allow live, viable babies to be born and then killed. That is something that I think everyone can agree is unacceptable and should not be allowed. I don't see any reason to believe that the law is trending in that direction since I cannot see any base of support for it. Frankly I think fear of such things is being stoked by conservative media without any real evidence to support it. If anything ever started to trend in that direction, I certainly would vote against it and speak out against it, as would every liberal I have spoken to on the subject.
I understand your position, and there is no benefit politically for this to be talked about out loud or even in known private talks. I would never expect that. I know there was an immediate response by many on trying to dismiss what Northam said as him misspeaking and or being taken out of context, but Northam himself never walked back those comments even given many chances. It certainly doesn't help that he himself is a pediatric doctor and tried to be very careful about what he said, being as accurate as possible.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9965
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:35 pm

I do think it matters that the Democrats have universally disavowed Northam. They called on him to resign. The guy has exposed himself as an idiot. He tried to literally do the moonwalk at his press conference about blackface/KKK hoods and had to be stopped by his wife. I don't think it is fair to use him as some kind of benchmark of the true future direction the Democrats want to go in. The whole party has shunned him.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by In2ition » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:37 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:35 pm
I do think it matters that the Democrats have universally disavowed Northam. They called on him to resign. The guy has exposed himself as an idiot. He tried to literally do the moonwalk at his press conference about blackface/KKK hoods and had to be stopped by his wife. I don't think it is fair to use him as some kind of benchmark of the true future direction the Democrats want to go in. The whole party has shunned him.
Fair point.

Do you think the belief that it was the Dems that exposed the year book photos of him immediately afterwards as credible or possible?
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2317
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by Nodack » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:56 pm

I don’t think anybody wants to kill live babies. I think what is considered a live baby is debatable and obviously controversial. I think we are Americans and the two party’s have to fight about everything.

My two cents. I don’t know the point at which a baby becomes sentient and self aware but that seems like a good cut off point to an abortion to me. I am not a doctor and haven’t studied baby development so I am not an expert but, I think if a girl is raped and gets pregnant she should be allowed to get an abortion.

I also think that sex ed should be taught to kids getting close to having sex age. They should know that having unprotected sex can lead to unwanted pregnancies and could lead to diseases. I remember Sarah Palin fighting against teaching sex ed and then right after that her unwed daughter got pregnant. Conservatives fighting to close Planned Parenthood clinics is a bad idea. They don’t just do abortions. Their whole purpose is to help people avoid UNPlanned Parenthood, screenings for cancer etc. and to provide help if they do get pregnant. I consider this a vital service.

Planned Parenthood is one of the nation’s leading providers of high-quality, affordable health care, and the nation’s largest provider of sex education. With or without insurance, you can always come to us for your health care. Most birth control, annual exams, HIV testing, and STD testing will be covered for free, with no copay.

Fighting against Planned Parenthood is the same as somebody not liking us being in war and protesting against the troops. The troops just do as they are told, they don’t make policy. The realize some religions don’t approve of ANY birth control. That is their right but, they should not be able stop others from having access to it. If you don’t want to use birth control or get an abortion that is always your choice but, you don’t have the right to force your beliefs on me.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by In2ition » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:26 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:56 pm
I don’t think anybody wants to kill live babies. I think what is considered a live baby is debatable and obviously controversial. I think we are Americans and the two party’s have to fight about everything.

My two cents. I don’t know the point at which a baby becomes sentient and self aware but that seems like a good cut off point to an abortion to me. I am not a doctor and haven’t studied baby development so I am not an expert but, I think if a girl is raped and gets pregnant she should be allowed to get an abortion.

I also think that sex ed should be taught to kids getting close to having sex age. They should know that having unprotected sex can lead to unwanted pregnancies and could lead to diseases. I remember Sarah Palin fighting against teaching sex ed and then right after that her unwed daughter got pregnant. Conservatives fighting to close Planned Parenthood clinics is a bad idea. They don’t just do abortions. Their whole purpose is to help people avoid UNPlanned Parenthood, screenings for cancer etc. and to provide help if they do get pregnant. I consider this a vital service.

Planned Parenthood is one of the nation’s leading providers of high-quality, affordable health care, and the nation’s largest provider of sex education. With or without insurance, you can always come to us for your health care. Most birth control, annual exams, HIV testing, and STD testing will be covered for free, with no copay.

Fighting against Planned Parenthood is the same as somebody not liking us being in war and protesting against the troops. The troops just do as they are told, they don’t make policy. The realize some religions don’t approve of ANY birth control. That is their right but, they should not be able stop others from having access to it. If you don’t want to use birth control or get an abortion that is always your choice but, you don’t have the right to force your beliefs on me.
I am not against sex education or birth control. I'm not going to force my religion on anyone. I hope you weren't speaking to me in particular.

I really doubt that Sarah Palin's daughter didn't know that unprotected sex was going to result in pregnancy.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2317
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by Nodack » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:41 am

I was talking in general. I like you In2ition. I am glad you are here. I just spew my opinions here. I wonder why we even do it. It must make us feel better. Maybe we think we can change others opinions or maybe just want to be with others who think the same as us like Suns fans or a gang does. I like to think I do it because like everybody else I think my moral compass is the right one and I want everyone else to think like me because that would make me more comfortable. :)

I’m sure Sarahs daughter knew about the birds and the bees just fine and like a lot of other young people experimenting with sex for the first few times, think for some reason it won’t happen to them... and then it does. It was just a real bad look for Sarah to make her statement and right after that her daughter ends up pregnant.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by In2ition » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:22 am

It was a bad look, and it would have been a much worse look if Palin's daughter went to Planned Parenthood and had an abortion. But, she decided to have the baby and be a single mother.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2317
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by Nodack » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:01 am

She could have went to Planned Parenthood and got free birth control.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by In2ition » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:08 pm

Nodack wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:01 am
She could have went to Planned Parenthood and got free birth control.
Haha, idk she seems pretty happy with her child.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2317
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by Nodack » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:00 pm

I am sure she is happy with her baby. I wonder if you went back in time to the moment she finds out she is pregnant and you give her the choice to go back in time a little more and not have unprotected sex what she would say.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by In2ition » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:15 pm

Hindsight could change things, but as a parent after knowing what happened you wouldn't change a thing. I severely doubt she would change anything that pertains to having her son.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2317
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Andrew Cuomo Signs Abortion Bill Into Law, Codifying Roe v. Wade

Post by Nodack » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:29 am

I agree.

Post Reply