World Politics

[Indy]

You give or gave $25 or more to GoFundMe or GiveSendGo for the truckers, you are now considered a terrorist and they will freeze your bank accounts. Authoritarians are putting the boot on your face with the quickness.

Can you find any news source that actually says this? They don't say that in the video, and the 3 articles I just read don't say that either. They just say their current law for money laundering and terrorist financing doesn't cover crowd-sourced programs or crypto-currencies, and they are going to close that loop hole.

[In2ition]

Here is a Quebec lawyer.

[Indy]

that says nothing about the truckers or people that donated $25. He seems to be talking about financial crimes law. (And just an FYI, the US government can already do the same thing)

[In2ition]

that says nothing about the truckers or people that donated $25. He seems to be talking about financial crimes law. (And just an FYI, the US government can already do the same thing)

I'll see if I can find it, specifically about $25 or more.

Btw, the US government can't do the same thing(seize assets and bank accounts just by suspicion of supporting the Truckers for freedom. Due process is needed prior. Maybe the corrupt can get away with it though somehow.

[Indy]

I am not talking about the Truckers. I am talking about the US government being able to seize assets if they think they are related to terrorism (or any crime, really). A cop can seize a wad of cash he finds in your car without you ever being even charged with a crime, much less convicted. It happens every day in America.

[In2ition]

I am not talking about the Truckers. I am talking about the US government being able to seize assets if they think they are related to terrorism (or any crime, really). A cop can seize a wad of cash he finds in your car without you ever being even charged with a crime, much less convicted. It happens every day in America.

Yeah, I didn't mean specifically about Truckers either. I agree with you about cops seizing cash in a stop, and yes it's happened all the time. There are a lot of stories about people taking their life savings with them as they move, travel across the US, do nothing wrong, but get pulled over and the cash seized for no reason(yet they will claim it's under suspicion of wrong doing). It's not right in that case, but it's worse in a way when most people have their money in the banks and it's seized or frozen. They can't pay their bills or buy food, or do anything.

[Indy]

Yep, and the Feds can do that, too, if they say they think the money was used in a crime. I am not saying it is right for anyone to do, just that it happens every day and isn't unique to Canada.

[Mori Chu]

I am enjoying Republicans flipping on this issue and suddenly supporting violent protestors committing crimes after railing on Black Lives Matter protestors last year. Careful, if you spin too fast you may get dizzy!

[In2ition]

Not to excuse those other incidents, but they seem so far and few between. In comparison, it's nothing close to the same in size. You are talking about anyone that the government feels is supportive of the Truckers, even if they didn't donate anything. You are talking about millions of Canadians, and it seems obvious that they will target the most vocal dissenters of the Government's actions first. They were already monitoring the citizens social media accounts and sending officers to homes of people that weren't involved, but may have given verbal support for the protest.

[In2ition]

I am enjoying Republicans flipping on this issue and suddenly supporting violent protestors committing crimes after railing on Black Lives Matter protestors last year. Careful, if you spin too fast you may get dizzy!

Please point to the violent protests. Who has committed violence? Are you saying that honking is violence? BLM was in 2020 btw, but there were over $2 billion in property damages and burned buildings that happened and I think the count was over a dozen killed. How are we even making this equal comparison? That's beyond batshit crazy.

[Nodack]

The whole idea of a protest is to draw attention to your issue and that always seems to be by disrupting things. BLM disrupted things and there was a price tag. They met people apposing them and counter protesting and there was some violence. BLM got blamed for looting but, from what I saw there was people not in the protests taking advantage of the protests to loot. There was even a video of a right winger posing as a lib trying to get people to loot a building so he could film it.

The Truckers protest blocked a big artery between the US and Canada for a week or two and that brought them lots of attention. The auto industry alone is facing losses of a billion dollars from the blockade. Costs for increased daily policing in Canada’s capital have hit $800,000 a day.

They were both protests and they were both expensive.

Did BLM protests bring attention to their cause? I think it did. Dems supported their cause. Cons ignored their cause but, were really annoyed by it. Their cause was to being attention to violence against blacks especially by police and they wanted something done about it. No Republican in America will ever say the protests were about violence against blacks by the police. Their answer is that blacks just hate America and that’s the end of the discussion.

Cons supported the Truckers protest and Libs were annoyed by it. Their cause was they don’t want the government of either the US or Canada forcing them to get vaccinated and they also appose any Covid restrictions. I think Dems are aware of their cause but just don’t agree with it. Dems think everyone getting vaccinated will help end Covid and save lives and are annoyed that people on the right are refusing to go along with the plan. Cons don’t trust the government or the vaccines and no amount of data suggesting the vaccine might save their lives is going to get them to take the vaccine because all the data is fake and just propaganda to them.

[In2ition]

My data is correct and yours is fake and propaganda isn't fixing the problem.

"No Republican in America will ever say the protests were about violence against blacks by the police. Their answer is that blacks just hate America and that’s the end of the discussion."
Strawman arguments don't help either.

The auto industry was losing money from not getting chips in their cars and aren't able to sell them before the Truckers came, but it's not that, it's the blockade on the bridges? I'm not quite feeling that.

I agree that there were provocateur's that clearly weren't associated with the BLM movement. The movement itself and on the surface wasn't bad. What it started out as was just, but burning down businesses that had nothing to do with cop violence and killing people is not the same as how it was supposed to be. If the Truckers were burning down businesses in downtown Ottawa and killing people, I'm not sure who would support that. And their reasons would not get sympathy. They had bouncy houses set up and it was more of a party than an angry violent mob as Mori is clearly frame them as, which is a bit evil on his part, tbh.

[Indy]

The auto industry was losing money from not getting chips in their cars and aren't able to sell them before the Truckers came, but it's not that, it's the blockade on the bridges? I'm not quite feeling that.

Yes, they were running reduced shifts due to the limited supply of chips. But those chips come from Asia. A huge chunk of sub-assemblies and components from come Canada, though. And many auto makers had to cancel shifts and send people home due to the blockade. Most of the automakers work in a JIT factory and are not built to absorb the disorder from the protest over vaccine mandates.

[Mori Chu]

BTW, In2, one of your fave news sites ZeroHedge is accused of republishing blatant Russian propaganda. Oops. Next time you share a ZeroHedge link, note that I will absolutely not read it, since this outfit has ZeroCredibility.

[In2ition]

BTW, In2, one of your fave news sites ZeroHedge is accused of republishing blatant Russian propaganda. Oops. Next time you share a ZeroHedge link, note that I will absolutely not read it, since this outfit has ZeroCredibility.

Don't worry, I won't post anything from them.

Wasn't Bloomberg, CNN and many MSM media orgs given massive amounts of money by the CCP? Are you going to claim they have zero credibility too?

[Nodack]

https://fortune.com/2022/02/14/freedom- ... us-canada/
The so-called Freedom Convoy, which started in Ottawa more than two weeks ago and comprised roughly 8,000 participants at its height, created a blockade of key bridges and crossings between the U.S. and Canada, including the Ambassador Bridge—as well as daily demonstrations in the Canadian capital of Ottawa. The protests largely centered on objections to vaccine requirements for truckers crossing the U.S.-Canadian border, but came to include a protest against COVID regulations writ large.

The bridge is North America’s busiest trade link connecting Detroit to Windsor and a vital artery for the auto industry. About 25% of the trade between the U.S. and Canada crosses this particular bridge—about $360 million in cargo daily, according to Reuters. The seven-day blockage, therefore, had wide-ranging consequences.

The auto industry alone is facing losses as high as $988 million because of the blockades, given that there’s an estimated $141.1 million worth of vehicles and auto parts flowing in and out daily, according to 2021 data from IHS Markit, a research firm.

My data is correct and yours is fake and propaganda isn't fixing the problem.

"No Republican in America will ever say the protests were about violence against blacks by the police. Their answer is that blacks just hate America and that’s the end of the discussion."
Strawman arguments don't help either.

Not really arguing. Just pointing out facts as I see them.

The movement itself and on the surface wasn't bad. What it started out as was just, but burning down businesses that had nothing to do with cop violence and killing people is not the same as how it was supposed to be.

That was how Republicans justified ignoring the movement. Someone burned down a building somewhere therefore that makes the entire cause null and void. BLM wasn’t protesting violence against blacks, they were just an angry mob burning and looting everything everywhere and at no point was the right wing media ever going to show or broadcast anything but pictures of violence to portray the movement as a terrorist group out to destroy America.

[In2ition]

Not really arguing. Just pointing out facts as I see them.

Strawman arguments are not facts, even if you see them as facts, which is odd in itself. Calling one person's data fake, while championing yours as the other person calls your own data fake, never moves the meter on either side.

That was how Republicans justified ignoring the movement. Someone burned down a building somewhere therefore that makes the entire cause null and void. BLM wasn’t protesting violence against blacks, they were just an angry mob burning and looting everything everywhere and at no point was the right wing media ever going to show or broadcast anything but pictures of violence to portray the movement as a terrorist group out to destroy America.

Violence is how a movement gets discredited by itself, and justifying the violence doesn't help the cause either. I think nearly everyone in the country was sympathetic to the cause, until there was looting(and it may not have been the BLM that did it), burning down businesses and killing people. It's not hard concept to understand, is it?

If the Girl Scout's protested, that they were pissed that someone was stealing their money from cookie sales, and those protests became looting, violence, and burning down small businesses, people would turn on them too.

[Mori Chu]

I like the points Frum makes in this thread. Canada cracking down on some of these truckers is not fascism. If anything the Canadian government and police have bent over backwards to be cautious and deferential to them, even when they were clearly breaking laws. It is not fascist to stop a protest group from shutting down an entire city and blocking traffic for weeks. These are perfectly reasonable applications of their emergency laws IMO.

[Mori Chu]

BTW, on the Zero Hedge thing. I used it to dunk on ZH (and In2), but I do think it's weird and bad for the federal government to specifically call out journalistic entities or web sites for misinformation like that. ZH may be trash, but I really want the government not meddling in what media are "good" vs "bad" or "true" vs "false." Down that road bad things await.

[Nodack]

Not really arguing. Just pointing out facts as I see them.

Strawman arguments are not facts, even if you see them as facts, which is odd in itself. Calling one person's data fake, while championing yours as the other person calls your own data fake, never moves the meter on either side.

That was how Republicans justified ignoring the movement. Someone burned down a building somewhere therefore that makes the entire cause null and void. BLM wasn’t protesting violence against blacks, they were just an angry mob burning and looting everything everywhere and at no point was the right wing media ever going to show or broadcast anything but pictures of violence to portray the movement as a terrorist group out to destroy America.

Violence is how a movement gets discredited by itself, and justifying the violence doesn't help the cause either. I think nearly everyone in the country was sympathetic to the cause, until there was looting(and it may not have been the BLM that did it), burning down businesses and killing people. It's not hard concept to understand, is it?

If the Girl Scout's protested, that they were pissed that someone was stealing their money from cookie sales, and those protests became looting, violence, and burning down small businesses, people would turn on them too.

I am sure there is a Republican somewhere in the US that sympathized with the BLM and thought something should be done about racist cops targeting blacks. I just haven’t met one or heard of one or seen any mention of it on any right wing site ever.

Violence is how a movement gets discredited and right wing sites have done everything in their power to portray the movement as a violent group of thugs from the beginning to discredit the movement. That’s why the right winger was trying to get them to loot show he could film it and then post it on the internet where it will get picked up by FOX and shown as proof that we shouldn’t care about racist cops and should instead hate blacks because they are violent thugs who hate America.

I don’t believe in defunding the police. I believe in making sure we hire police who aren’t violent racists who abuse their power and kill blacks for fun. Right wingers should support the same thing but, they don’t seem to give a shit. They just point out how violent blacks are and mention crime in Chicago as some sort of proof that it’s ok if a few blacks are killed by racists cops because blacks kill blacks too.