Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I think we've all made our arguments about Ayton and aren't going to convince each other at this point. It looks pretty likely that he'll be leaving, so maybe it is a moot point. I will be sad to see him go. I think I can see the argument that he is not worth the 5-year max. But I feel like the rhetoric here lately is acting like he is trash, a bum, not worth much at all. Maybe it's because we can see the writing on the wall that he is out of here soon, so we want to turn on him and focus on the negatives.

Can you find me even one post of anyone saying that?

Here are a few examples that IMO imply that Ayton is not a very valuable player, not worth much. All of these examples come from this same thread. Names stripped out because I want to focus on the words and not the messengers:

- Saying that Isaiah Thomas was better than Ayton:

IT was absolutely better than Ayton. He finished 5th in mvp, was All-NBA 2nd team and we dumped him for a late 1st. We’d have to trade Ayton for a 2nd for it to be comparable.

- Calling Ayton a "quarter" rather than a "dollar"

He’s a quarter that wants to be paid like he’s a dollar.

- Calling him "soft":

He can't hold his own...he's soft... [...]. Is our lineup sufficient without some changes or improvement to compete? I point to the Mavs round 2 series w/us...clearly...no.

- Saying that Ayton isn't the "kind of C" who wins chips or gets to the Finals (despite Ayton being the starting center on a 2021 NBA Finals team):

We also see what kind of Cs are winning chips and getting to the finals. He just isn’t valuable like that anymore.

- Saying that Ayton "doesn't take the real NBA seriously":

He can't even be bothered to get a good night's sleep at the expense of being a legend in NBA2K. He needs to learn to take the real NBA seriously before his salary demands are taken seriously.

- Saying he "doesn't have it upstairs":

He doesn't have it upstairs. Every deficit in his game can be traced back to his mental approach. That stuff doesn't change mid-career and surely not if he's on a max-contract because at that point, in his mind, he's already made it.

- Saying Ayton doesn't work on his game and hasn't gotten better:

We asked Ayton to focus on finishing and setting picks. So yeah, he had insane field goal percentages, which made it look like he was getting better, which he wasn't. And again, Ayton has blame in this too. He isn't exactly working on his game the way Book did in the awful Ryan years.

There are more such quotes, but I limited how far back I dug in the thread. I admit that I am grabbing some of the strongest anti-Ayton statements, but I do think the talk about him overall has skewed very negatively and doesn't seem to include much room for options where keeping him would be a good idea or helpful to the team.

IT greatest year is something to reckon, not sure how that equals to call Ayton trash, besides, the poster was talking about the trade, and that happened just before that year. You can say CP3 is better and still it doesn’t equal to calling Ayton trash.

The quarter stuff is a bit underrate him, but calling him trash would be along the lines of “penny”, don’t you think?

Soft… that word is used constantly about him, but hey, dunks as much as Amare, so people is probably wrong. Yet again, you can be soft and still far away from being trash, the adjectives are not similar.

Giannis won that chip for the Bucks, and got help from his teammates, that is the core of that line. Ayton was the starting center on a finals team, the same Crowder was the starting PF. Yeah, the comparison is ridiculous, but this lame argument prevails if the metric to justify his Max, is being starter on a finals team, wich is just as lame as well. And yet again, this is not calling him trash, just not Max worthy.

And could walk trough the rest, but would be the same. If this quotes are the strongest, then we are far on this forum to call him trash.

Jeremy is constantly mocking other peoples arguments, spamming every subject with Ayton ranting, and yet we are the ones called lame for confronting him with the same level of ridiculous assumptions, great.

[Indy]

That was some kind of reaching, Mori. Nobody here is calling Ayton trash, including in those quotes.

[Shabazz]

Just want to say on the Dallas series blame pie chart, Monty and CP have much bigger slices than Ayton. Much.

[Split T]

Sure, but that’s because they are much more important to the team. I don’t know what was going on with CP3, he wasn’t remotely the CP3 we saw in NO. Was he hurt or was he just worn out? His flip doesn’t make sense because he’s shown to be a reliable player for us in his 2 years. There was nothing unusual about Ayton being awesome against NO and then meh against Dallas. That’s kind of the point, that’s who Ayton is. Great at times, invisible at others. We excuse CP3 because that performance was very unordinary for him.

As for Monty, I’m not sure what happened there. It’s the first time I’ve seen him seem unable to adjust. He didn’t try anything…just kept rolling with what was clearly a problematic strategy. The only thing I can think of is it was pride. He just stuck with what he’d done all year and didn’t want to admit he’d been beat.

[JeremyG]

Jeremy, you are so entrenched on winning the argument, on twisting to your favor every chance others people gives on their redacting, that you lose sight of the big picture, the TEAM picture. If this was boxing, it would be entirely Ayton’s problem how he handles himself and his habits, but this is a team venture. You, me, everyone here knows that Barkley costs the Suns a championship because of his terrible habits, and then he started to suffer injuries because his lack of discipline. IT’S THE SAME THING HERE, only on a less grotesque way, but video games addiction is a real thing and to boot, Ayton lacks the drive players like Barkley had because stepping on a court IS A JOB for him, not a dream nor a privilege.

The front knows this all the better, the coaches and his teammates. They we’re trying to push him towards greatness and make him mature. Maybe he “gets it” later, but right now you are giving the max to a guy that thinks he already earned it so he can relax and enjoy his money for a couple years, he is not pushing it to the next level, just will continue to produce whatever he can without any risk of harm, injury or losing his Legend status.

But in order to achieve greatness, on anything, you have to act far beyond delivering a simple job. And today’s Ayton does not see his NBA career like that.

The joke around here is that you are his agent in disguise posting here, but most likely you are related to him from college or some other circle that really loves the guy and believes that him bust his ass on his “job” every day. Many people loves their slackers, because they’re not affecting your own job. But if you are so fathomed by the guy just by see him on TV, wow, I don’t know what to say, except stop trying to drag the rest of us to your level of insanity, it’s not going to happen. Stop pushing your narrative, it’s becoming tiresome that everything have to be turned into something Ayton related. You are really interesting to read when you pull off your Ayton glasses. Sorry for being so rude, I hope you can take it constructively.

Lol, this is an Ayton thread. If you don't want to hear about Ayton, why read this thread? In case you hadn't noticed, Ayton is the number one issue this offseason for the Suns, along with KD trade talks now.

The pushing of a "narrative" is from the Ayton haters. Once he's gone, you all will realize how important he was to the team. And you act like I'm the only one who realizes it now, when probably about 40% of the fandom outside this forum is on my side, thinking he deserves the max. In fact, 31% on Twitter said he deserved the full 5 year max:



I guess those thousand voters must all be related to him or his agent also.

Fine, then stop posting Ayton related spam on all the other threads, and flood it all over here.

And yeah let’s use Twitter as a sample of reasonable informed people, but still, where did you learn that 31% against 69% it’s a positive thing?

Is laughable the ways you find the edges to avoid the center of the argument, like Amare dunks per game, yeah that will show us all ignorants, that Ayton have Amare’s same level of aggression. Kept screaming about market salary before, but now avoiding it. The money is there, crazy extensions and lots of transactions went by without nobody stopping at his door.

It’s not black or white here, I’m sure he would be already signed at $20mill per year, good but not great player salary, but if this about maximum versus let him go, then you are on a small minority. And let him go, doesn’t mean for nothing, again, there is a lot of options in between.

Now, how the Front office is going to proceed, is a entirely different subject, but you are already ranting that Jones is going to let him walk away for nothing, with absolutely nothing to support your ASSUMPTION. Even if it comes to this, you won’t be right about it, you just were guessing in advance. For someone that claims to be over 20 years on his fandom you certainly act like a true born writer from the era of misinformation, half truths and alternate facts.

I will ignore the personal stuff which the site owner has requested to stop. If you have any examples of "spam" or if you see a post you don't like, there is a "report" button on here, just report my posts.

31% is a sizable minority. It means that it's not just me, or his agent, or friends, or relatives.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I guess those thousand voters must all be related to him or his agent also.

30% of 3,052 is 937. (I rounded up for you)

Not exactly thousands of voters.

[JeremyG]

I guess those thousand voters must all be related to him or his agent also.

30% of 3,052 is 937. (I rounded up for you)

Not exactly thousands of voters.

Where did I say thousands?

[Flagrant Fowl]

it's 5:45am. My bad.

[JeremyG]

Sure, but that’s because they are much more important to the team. I don’t know what was going on with CP3, he wasn’t remotely the CP3 we saw in NO. Was he hurt or was he just worn out? His flip doesn’t make sense because he’s shown to be a reliable player for us in his 2 years. There was nothing unusual about Ayton being awesome against NO and then meh against Dallas. That’s kind of the point, that’s who Ayton is. Great at times, invisible at others. We excuse CP3 because that performance was very unordinary for him.

As for Monty, I’m not sure what happened there. It’s the first time I’ve seen him seem unable to adjust. He didn’t try anything…just kept rolling with what was clearly a problematic strategy. The only thing I can think of is it was pride. He just stuck with what he’d done all year and didn’t want to admit he’d been beat.

See Mori was right, you're saying that half the time he's trash. Because "trash" is what I would call CP3's series and you seemed to be putting them on comparable levels in that series. I think that Ayton had a much better series than CP3 did.

[Split T]

Sure, but that’s because they are much more important to the team. I don’t know what was going on with CP3, he wasn’t remotely the CP3 we saw in NO. Was he hurt or was he just worn out? His flip doesn’t make sense because he’s shown to be a reliable player for us in his 2 years. There was nothing unusual about Ayton being awesome against NO and then meh against Dallas. That’s kind of the point, that’s who Ayton is. Great at times, invisible at others. We excuse CP3 because that performance was very unordinary for him.

As for Monty, I’m not sure what happened there. It’s the first time I’ve seen him seem unable to adjust. He didn’t try anything…just kept rolling with what was clearly a problematic strategy. The only thing I can think of is it was pride. He just stuck with what he’d done all year and didn’t want to admit he’d been beat.

See Mori was right, you're saying that half the time he's trash. Because "trash" is what I would call CP3's series and you seemed to be putting them on comparable levels in that series. I think that Ayton had a much better series than CP3 did.

I said nothing about them being comparable. It’s also funny to me because if Ayton had put up 55/48/92 shooting splits in the series, you definitely wouldn’t have called him trash. You’d say well why didn’t we get him more shots? It’s our fault for not getting him the ball more.

But the reason he had a bad series is because he couldn’t make things happen. He couldn’t, or wouldn’t, get to his spots and take shots. He was weirdly passive. For a moment we saw CP3 unable to be a creator. It’s the same reason many of us have issues with Ayton. His inability to be a creator means he’s gonna have games where he gets 6 shots and scores 8 points. He can’t impose his will on the game whenever he wants.

So it’s funny to me that CP3 turned into a highly efficient, but passive offensive player and you called him trash. It at least shows me you understand the massively different role CP3 plays for us. Do you just not see it as important?

I’m curious what team you would think would be better, say we never got CP3 and built around Rubio/Booker/Bridges/Crowder/Ayton
or let’s say when we replaced Rubio with CP3, we replaced Ayton with Capela. CP3/Booker/Bridges/Crowder/Capela

I guess do you think Ayton is better than the average C moreso than CP3 is better than the average pg? And do you think having an above average C is just as important as having an above average pg?

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Jeremy, you are so entrenched on winning the argument, on twisting to your favor every chance others people gives on their redacting, that you lose sight of the big picture, the TEAM picture. If this was boxing, it would be entirely Ayton’s problem how he handles himself and his habits, but this is a team venture. You, me, everyone here knows that Barkley costs the Suns a championship because of his terrible habits, and then he started to suffer injuries because his lack of discipline. IT’S THE SAME THING HERE, only on a less grotesque way, but video games addiction is a real thing and to boot, Ayton lacks the drive players like Barkley had because stepping on a court IS A JOB for him, not a dream nor a privilege.

The front knows this all the better, the coaches and his teammates. They we’re trying to push him towards greatness and make him mature. Maybe he “gets it” later, but right now you are giving the max to a guy that thinks he already earned it so he can relax and enjoy his money for a couple years, he is not pushing it to the next level, just will continue to produce whatever he can without any risk of harm, injury or losing his Legend status.

But in order to achieve greatness, on anything, you have to act far beyond delivering a simple job. And today’s Ayton does not see his NBA career like that.

The joke around here is that you are his agent in disguise posting here, but most likely you are related to him from college or some other circle that really loves the guy and believes that him bust his ass on his “job” every day. Many people loves their slackers, because they’re not affecting your own job. But if you are so fathomed by the guy just by see him on TV, wow, I don’t know what to say, except stop trying to drag the rest of us to your level of insanity, it’s not going to happen. Stop pushing your narrative, it’s becoming tiresome that everything have to be turned into something Ayton related. You are really interesting to read when you pull off your Ayton glasses. Sorry for being so rude, I hope you can take it constructively.

Lol, this is an Ayton thread. If you don't want to hear about Ayton, why read this thread? In case you hadn't noticed, Ayton is the number one issue this offseason for the Suns, along with KD trade talks now.

The pushing of a "narrative" is from the Ayton haters. Once he's gone, you all will realize how important he was to the team. And you act like I'm the only one who realizes it now, when probably about 40% of the fandom outside this forum is on my side, thinking he deserves the max. In fact, 31% on Twitter said he deserved the full 5 year max:



I guess those thousand voters must all be related to him or his agent also.

Fine, then stop posting Ayton related spam on all the other threads, and flood it all over here.

And yeah let’s use Twitter as a sample of reasonable informed people, but still, where did you learn that 31% against 69% it’s a positive thing?

Is laughable the ways you find the edges to avoid the center of the argument, like Amare dunks per game, yeah that will show us all ignorants, that Ayton have Amare’s same level of aggression. Kept screaming about market salary before, but now avoiding it. The money is there, crazy extensions and lots of transactions went by without nobody stopping at his door.

It’s not black or white here, I’m sure he would be already signed at $20mill per year, good but not great player salary, but if this about maximum versus let him go, then you are on a small minority. And let him go, doesn’t mean for nothing, again, there is a lot of options in between.

Now, how the Front office is going to proceed, is a entirely different subject, but you are already ranting that Jones is going to let him walk away for nothing, with absolutely nothing to support your ASSUMPTION. Even if it comes to this, you won’t be right about it, you just were guessing in advance. For someone that claims to be over 20 years on his fandom you certainly act like a true born writer from the era of misinformation, half truths and alternate facts.

I will ignore the personal stuff which the site owner has requested to stop. If you have any examples of "spam" or if you see a post you don't like, there is a "report" button on here, just report my posts.

31% is a sizable minority. It means that it's not just me, or his agent, or friends, or relatives.

LOL, I recently saw some else said “Go to hell idiot” but I’m the one calling personal stuff, good one Jeremy, but let’s take it from here then.

Minorities matter, but 31% percent is not enough to pass any kind of bill -as a Max Contract would be- and particularly, on a poll with a Yes or No choice on it, 31% is clearly being on the wrong side of it, on this cases it’s not sizable, it’s just plain wrong by a landslide. And to use your own style, you would run to point out that 937 IS NOT a thousand people, so you are plain wrong.

What about the paragraph about the market settling the max discussion? Theres was nothing personal on it, why did you leave it out of your response?

[Superbone]

This is such a wasted use of time. He gone. In the poll he was voted as leaving over 2 to 1. There's so much silence from the Suns regarding him that I have to believe that he is being moved.

I'm just curious once he's gone if we'll continue to debate his worth for years to come. I guess just more ammunition for future Suns talk. It is a major disappointment that we picked the wrong guy when we finally got our #1 overall pick. It's an admission of failure too once he's gone. I love all you guys and your passion for our Phoenix Suns.

[JeremyG]

Y'all are missing the point. Ayton made it to the finals but not playing like the way he wants to play, with the ball going through the C spot allowing him to "do more" as he is fond of saying. I thought I had made myself more clear. I wouldn't classify myself as an Ayton hater just because I don't think his game is worth the max.

But would we have made the Finals with McGee or Biyombo as our starting center?

[JeremyG]

Jeremy, you are so entrenched on winning the argument, on twisting to your favor every chance others people gives on their redacting, that you lose sight of the big picture, the TEAM picture. If this was boxing, it would be entirely Ayton’s problem how he handles himself and his habits, but this is a team venture. You, me, everyone here knows that Barkley costs the Suns a championship because of his terrible habits, and then he started to suffer injuries because his lack of discipline. IT’S THE SAME THING HERE, only on a less grotesque way, but video games addiction is a real thing and to boot, Ayton lacks the drive players like Barkley had because stepping on a court IS A JOB for him, not a dream nor a privilege.

The front knows this all the better, the coaches and his teammates. They we’re trying to push him towards greatness and make him mature. Maybe he “gets it” later, but right now you are giving the max to a guy that thinks he already earned it so he can relax and enjoy his money for a couple years, he is not pushing it to the next level, just will continue to produce whatever he can without any risk of harm, injury or losing his Legend status.

But in order to achieve greatness, on anything, you have to act far beyond delivering a simple job. And today’s Ayton does not see his NBA career like that.

The joke around here is that you are his agent in disguise posting here, but most likely you are related to him from college or some other circle that really loves the guy and believes that him bust his ass on his “job” every day. Many people loves their slackers, because they’re not affecting your own job. But if you are so fathomed by the guy just by see him on TV, wow, I don’t know what to say, except stop trying to drag the rest of us to your level of insanity, it’s not going to happen. Stop pushing your narrative, it’s becoming tiresome that everything have to be turned into something Ayton related. You are really interesting to read when you pull off your Ayton glasses. Sorry for being so rude, I hope you can take it constructively.

Lol, this is an Ayton thread. If you don't want to hear about Ayton, why read this thread? In case you hadn't noticed, Ayton is the number one issue this offseason for the Suns, along with KD trade talks now.

The pushing of a "narrative" is from the Ayton haters. Once he's gone, you all will realize how important he was to the team. And you act like I'm the only one who realizes it now, when probably about 40% of the fandom outside this forum is on my side, thinking he deserves the max. In fact, 31% on Twitter said he deserved the full 5 year max:



I guess those thousand voters must all be related to him or his agent also.

Fine, then stop posting Ayton related spam on all the other threads, and flood it all over here.

And yeah let’s use Twitter as a sample of reasonable informed people, but still, where did you learn that 31% against 69% it’s a positive thing?

Is laughable the ways you find the edges to avoid the center of the argument, like Amare dunks per game, yeah that will show us all ignorants, that Ayton have Amare’s same level of aggression. Kept screaming about market salary before, but now avoiding it. The money is there, crazy extensions and lots of transactions went by without nobody stopping at his door.

It’s not black or white here, I’m sure he would be already signed at $20mill per year, good but not great player salary, but if this about maximum versus let him go, then you are on a small minority. And let him go, doesn’t mean for nothing, again, there is a lot of options in between.

Now, how the Front office is going to proceed, is a entirely different subject, but you are already ranting that Jones is going to let him walk away for nothing, with absolutely nothing to support your ASSUMPTION. Even if it comes to this, you won’t be right about it, you just were guessing in advance. For someone that claims to be over 20 years on his fandom you certainly act like a true born writer from the era of misinformation, half truths and alternate facts.

I will ignore the personal stuff which the site owner has requested to stop. If you have any examples of "spam" or if you see a post you don't like, there is a "report" button on here, just report my posts.

31% is a sizable minority. It means that it's not just me, or his agent, or friends, or relatives.

LOL, I recently saw some else said “Go to hell idiot” but I’m the one calling personal stuff, good one Jeremy, but let’s take it from here then.

Minorities matter, but 31% percent is not enough to pass any kind of bill -as a Max Contract would be- and particularly, on a poll with a Yes or No choice on it, 31% is clearly being on the wrong side of it, on this cases it’s not sizable, it’s just plain wrong by a landslide. And to use your own style, you would run to point out that 937 IS NOT a thousand people, so you are plain wrong.

What about the paragraph about the market settling the max discussion? Theres was nothing personal on it, why did you leave it out of your response?

The minority is always wrong? That sounds like a dangerous approach to take. Besides, my point was not whether I am on the right side or wrong side, but whether there are others (unrelated to Deandre) that are on my side.

After Ayton signs a contract, I'll address the market discussion.

[JeremyG]

Sure, but that’s because they are much more important to the team. I don’t know what was going on with CP3, he wasn’t remotely the CP3 we saw in NO. Was he hurt or was he just worn out? His flip doesn’t make sense because he’s shown to be a reliable player for us in his 2 years. There was nothing unusual about Ayton being awesome against NO and then meh against Dallas. That’s kind of the point, that’s who Ayton is. Great at times, invisible at others. We excuse CP3 because that performance was very unordinary for him.

As for Monty, I’m not sure what happened there. It’s the first time I’ve seen him seem unable to adjust. He didn’t try anything…just kept rolling with what was clearly a problematic strategy. The only thing I can think of is it was pride. He just stuck with what he’d done all year and didn’t want to admit he’d been beat.

See Mori was right, you're saying that half the time he's trash. Because "trash" is what I would call CP3's series and you seemed to be putting them on comparable levels in that series. I think that Ayton had a much better series than CP3 did.

I said nothing about them being comparable. It’s also funny to me because if Ayton had put up 55/48/92 shooting splits in the series, you definitely wouldn’t have called him trash. You’d say well why didn’t we get him more shots? It’s our fault for not getting him the ball more.

But the reason he had a bad series is because he couldn’t make things happen. He couldn’t, or wouldn’t, get to his spots and take shots. He was weirdly passive. For a moment we saw CP3 unable to be a creator. It’s the same reason many of us have issues with Ayton. His inability to be a creator means he’s gonna have games where he gets 6 shots and scores 8 points. He can’t impose his will on the game whenever he wants.

So it’s funny to me that CP3 turned into a highly efficient, but passive offensive player and you called him trash. It at least shows me you understand the massively different role CP3 plays for us. Do you just not see it as important?

Why are you comparing a point guard with a center? Chris Paul has the ball in his hands constantly. The Mavs were even leaving him open at three point range daring him to shoot. He just refused to shoot. Of course it's his fault he didn't get more shots.

But even with his lack of scoring I wouldn't call his series trash if he was getting like 15 assists a game and creating for others the way he normally does. He wasn't even doing that.

Bottom line, of course a point guard and center will typically have "massively different roles." You don't need your center to be a creator. You definitely need your point guard to be a creator. Apples and oranges.

I’m curious what team you would think would be better, say we never got CP3 and built around Rubio/Booker/Bridges/Crowder/Ayton
or let’s say when we replaced Rubio with CP3, we replaced Ayton with Capela. CP3/Booker/Bridges/Crowder/Capela

I guess do you think Ayton is better than the average C moreso than CP3 is better than the average pg? And do you think having an above average C is just as important as having an above average pg?

I wouldn't necessarily call Capela an average center. But if you put an average center in there, then I would give a slight edge to the first team, assuming Ayton is featured more in the offense.

As to your second question, I would say at this point in their careers it's pretty equal, with Paul on the downtrend and more improvement still to come from Ayton. And to your last question, I would say it depends on the team and how you want to play.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

LOL, I recently saw some else said “Go to hell idiot” but I’m the one calling personal stuff, good one Jeremy, but let’s take it from here then.

Minorities matter, but 31% percent is not enough to pass any kind of bill -as a Max Contract would be- and particularly, on a poll with a Yes or No choice on it, 31% is clearly being on the wrong side of it, on this cases it’s not sizable, it’s just plain wrong by a landslide. And to use your own style, you would run to point out that 937 IS NOT a thousand people, so you are plain wrong.

What about the paragraph about the market settling the max discussion? Theres was nothing personal on it, why did you leave it out of your response?

The minority is always wrong? That sounds like a dangerous approach to take. Besides, my point was not whether I am on the right side or wrong side, but whether there are others (unrelated to Deandre) that are on my side.

After Ayton signs a contract, I'll address the market discussion.

Funny way to backpedal things, you were pretty insisting about how the entire league was willing to max Ayton, once proved wrong, you are leaving it for later, hindsight in hand.

And about minorities, you are not even twisting my words, you are just plain ignoring it. I clearly said that in a two choice poll, 31% is not sizable because the winning choice is clear, and expanding it to a more functional elective system, 31% can sway some decisions, became the tipping point on a debate and bargain for influence above his size, but it lacks by itself the strength to impose it’s will.

That have nothing to do with being wrong, you put it out of nowhere here. But still, by the sake of discussing, an minority it’s not automatically wrong, I completely agree, but you have to concede as well, that is not in the right automatically either.

A minority galvanized by some sort of “we the few, are special because WE KNOW better than most” mentality is as dangerous as an overwhelming majority deaf to the few. It usually radicalize it’s members, forcing them to multiply their efforts in order to compensate the numbers. As an unrelated example, in a sports forum, it would be some poster taking a lot of time and energy to be on every discussion pushing his point of view, engaging on every discussion to avoid the irrelevance of the side he represents.

Radicalized minorities risk to became irrational and unwilling to concede, forcing the rest to stop taking them seriously.

[specialsauce]

You guys are all exhausting my God. Can KD and DA just hurry up and reach some finality

[Indy]

You guys are all exhausting my God. Can KD and DA just hurry up and reach some finality

this is your most sensible post ever.

[Indy]

Just want to say on the Dallas series blame pie chart, Monty and CP have much bigger slices than Ayton. Much.

I am not sure anyone has said Ayton is to blame for losing that series.

[JeremyG]

LOL, I recently saw some else said “Go to hell idiot” but I’m the one calling personal stuff, good one Jeremy, but let’s take it from here then.

Minorities matter, but 31% percent is not enough to pass any kind of bill -as a Max Contract would be- and particularly, on a poll with a Yes or No choice on it, 31% is clearly being on the wrong side of it, on this cases it’s not sizable, it’s just plain wrong by a landslide. And to use your own style, you would run to point out that 937 IS NOT a thousand people, so you are plain wrong.

What about the paragraph about the market settling the max discussion? Theres was nothing personal on it, why did you leave it out of your response?

The minority is always wrong? That sounds like a dangerous approach to take. Besides, my point was not whether I am on the right side or wrong side, but whether there are others (unrelated to Deandre) that are on my side.

After Ayton signs a contract, I'll address the market discussion.

Funny way to backpedal things, you were pretty insisting about how the entire league was willing to max Ayton, once proved wrong, you are leaving it for later, hindsight in hand.

And about minorities, you are not even twisting my words, you are just plain ignoring it. I clearly said that in a two choice poll, 31% is not sizable because the winning choice is clear, and expanding it to a more functional elective system, 31% can sway some decisions, became the tipping point on a debate and bargain for influence above his size, but it lacks by itself the strength to impose it’s will.

That have nothing to do with being wrong, you put it out of nowhere here. But still, by the sake of discussing, an minority it’s not automatically wrong, I completely agree, but you have to concede as well, that is not in the right automatically either.

A minority galvanized by some sort of “we the few, are special because WE KNOW better than most” mentality is as dangerous as an overwhelming majority deaf to the few. It usually radicalize it’s members, forcing them to multiply their efforts in order to compensate the numbers. As an unrelated example, in a sports forum, it would be some poster taking a lot of time and energy to be on every discussion pushing his point of view, engaging on every discussion to avoid the irrelevance of the side he represents.

Radicalized minorities risk to became irrational and unwilling to concede, forcing the rest to stop taking them seriously.

What?? Lol.

Let's take a look at your post again:

Minorities matter, but 31% percent is not enough to pass any kind of bill -as a Max Contract would be- and particularly, on a poll with a Yes or No choice on it, 31% is clearly being on the wrong side of it, on this cases it’s not sizable, it’s just plain wrong by a landslide.

I did not make up "out of nowhere" you saying it meant "wrong." You clearly said "wrong" not once but twice.