Suns trade Grayson Allen, Royce O'Neale for Miles Bridges

[BigLewy]

IMO we will be worse this coming season than last year. Even if you set aside the abuse stuff with Br****s (which is hard to do) I just don't think he is a great basketball fit. I don't think we need another score-first guy at the 4, especially if he isn't great at defense, rebounding, passing, or 3-point shooting. I think we will miss Grayson and Royce and that our deficiencies as a team were heavily masked by our strong 3-point shooting. Now we're just sort of mediocre to bad at everything.

You guys are talking about ManMan being a top-10 center. I also think he's got a lot of potential to be a good NBA center. But we doubled down on Mark Williams by re-signing him, and Coach seems to love Oso, so I dunno if we'll have enough minutes for Maluach. I also think Br****s will inhibit our ability to play Fleming enough minutes to grow and develop.

Last season was a real breath of fresh air, and I'm proud of what the team accomplished. But I think this summer, outside of re-signing some of our core guys, was a step in the wrong direction. IMO we'll be fighting for the play-in and will be lucky to get there. The main thing we have going for us is that the West seems to have gotten weaker this summer, so maybe we can tread water just by default.

I will note that I was dead wrong about us last year, and I am widely regarded as a dumb idiot. So hopefully I will be wrong this time, again.

If I didn't know better, I would say that the Suns are stockpiling assets to bundle into a trade for a star-tier player. I just want them to get rid of Bridges, not a Koa or Fleming.

I agree-the team as currently constructed is a legit 10-12 deep and you obviously can't play everyone. I think the Bridges trade was the first step in that, as they consolidated Royce and Grayson's minutes for Bridges. If Man-Man keeps improving as we hope, Mark will be gone. Dunn could hold some value on a rookie deal, if Green stays healthy and can show his immense talent, there will be interest. I'd eventually consider moving anyone not named Man-Man, Fleming and maybe Koa (purely from the value of their contracts relative to their roles). They will obviously never move off Booker, even though that may be a mistake. I think the front office will give it this year to see what they can do and if it's a backwards step that cannot be blamed on health, you'll see some consolidation.

[JeremyG]

Genuine question: why is the (largely the same) fanbase that is (rightfully) concerned about Miles so willing to celebrate Larry Fitzgerald (current minority owner of the Phoenix Suns, btw) and his Hall of Fame induction, when he was accused of doing almost identical things to his girlfriend?

[The Bobster]

Genuine question: why is the (largely the same) fanbase that is (rightfully) concerned about Miles so willing to celebrate Larry Fitzgerald (current minority owner of the Phoenix Suns, btw) and his Hall of Fame induction, when he was accused of doing almost identical things to his girlfriend?

I wouldn't describe them as almost identical, but Fitzgerald's girlfriend did allege in 2008 that he tossed her across the room and pushed her down when she tried to leave with their son. He was never charged with anything (Fitzgerald wasn't even interviewed by the police), but she was eventually awarded an order or protection.

The Valley Tribune's description of the incident -

"In court documents, Nazario alleges that Fitzgerald grabbed the back of her neck and pushed her to the floor after an argument escalated during an overnight visit with their 11-month-old son.

Nazario said she swung at Fitzgerald and may have hit him in the face, according to the court documents."

So I imagine it was in part because it was a singular incident that the police chose not to pursue, and also because a lot of people probably had a hard time believing something like that from Fitzgerald (he may the the most beloved star athlete in Phoenix's history.

[TOO]

Genuine question: why is the (largely the same) fanbase that is (rightfully) concerned about Miles so willing to celebrate Larry Fitzgerald (current minority owner of the Phoenix Suns, btw) and his Hall of Fame induction, when he was accused of doing almost identical things to his girlfriend?

He's a lifer, Booker could probably do the same thing and people would put their capes on for him too.

[JeremyG]

From NBCSports (right before the Cardinals’ Super Bowl run):

Nazario claims that Fiztgerald “grabbed me by my hair with both hands on the back of my head very very hard and tossed me across the room,” and that when she tried to leave he “grabbed the back of my neck and slammed me down on the marble floor.” Alleged Nazario: "I was disoriented for awhile and could not get up, I remember he mumbled something about ‘that’s what happens when you try taking my son away from me.’” She then realized that she had lost “chunks” of hair.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootba ... fitzgerald

[virtual9mm]

Not a football fan and didn't know about these allegations. Thanks for letting us know. Definitely not good.

[Split T]

IMO we will be worse this coming season than last year. Even if you set aside the abuse stuff with Br****s (which is hard to do) I just don't think he is a great basketball fit. I don't think we need another score-first guy at the 4, especially if he isn't great at defense, rebounding, passing, or 3-point shooting. I think we will miss Grayson and Royce and that our deficiencies as a team were heavily masked by our strong 3-point shooting. Now we're just sort of mediocre to bad at everything.

You guys are talking about ManMan being a top-10 center. I also think he's got a lot of potential to be a good NBA center. But we doubled down on Mark Williams by re-signing him, and Coach seems to love Oso, so I dunno if we'll have enough minutes for Maluach. I also think Br****s will inhibit our ability to play Fleming enough minutes to grow and develop.

Last season was a real breath of fresh air, and I'm proud of what the team accomplished. But I think this summer, outside of re-signing some of our core guys, was a step in the wrong direction. IMO we'll be fighting for the play-in and will be lucky to get there. The main thing we have going for us is that the West seems to have gotten weaker this summer, so maybe we can tread water just by default.

I will note that I was dead wrong about us last year, and I am widely regarded as a dumb idiot. So hopefully I will be wrong this time, again.

I don’t think Bridges is a great fit either, but I don’t think he’s a bad fit. I think the team definitely improved on paper(we’ll see about on the court), though not enough to have given up the 2033 1st.

I would say we succeeded mostly with defense and offensive rebounding last year. We were an ok 3 point shooting team, but I would not describe us as a strong team. We shot 36% as a team which was 12th in the nba. We have essentially the same team with 2 changes…Miles replaces Grayson and Kennard replaces Royce. Kennard is arguably the best role playing shooter in the game. Royce and Gillespie were the best 3 point shooters last year(by a long shot). Gillespie is still here and Kennard can do everything Royce did.

Grayson was low key a bad 3 point shooter last year(by his standards). He shot a lot, but he made less than 35%. Miles is certainly better suited for the driving to the basket role that we asked Grayson to do last year. I’m gonna wait to actually see it, but there’s a decent amount of people, smarter than me, saying that Miles can pass. He certainly has the physical tools to be a good defender. Maybe he’ll be better for us.

I will say that there’s definitely some wishful thinking in this. I kinda expect about 42-46 wins and a play-in team again. Hoping someone surprises us and pushes us up a level. 48-50 wins and a 6 seed would be a success imo.

[pickle]

Split, I agree with your take pretty much 100%. I do think Bridges is a solid and willing passer. Leaving the off court stuff off the court, I wish he was a more assertive rebounder, but I guess there aren’t a ton of 6’8 dudes who make a living off the backboards anymore. He’s a bit of a a jack of all trades kind of player and since we have him, here’s hoping that Ott can maximize his game to fit this team.

Grayson did have a subpar shooting season but I think most of it was because he was thrust into a primary or secondary spot that he doesn’t have the talent for. I think he still was the best shooter on the team and at least equal value to Bridges by himself, if not slightly more valuable in the modern game.

[Ring_Wanted]

IMO we will be worse this coming season than last year. Even if you set aside the abuse stuff with Br****s (which is hard to do) I just don't think he is a great basketball fit. I don't think we need another score-first guy at the 4, especially if he isn't great at defense, rebounding, passing, or 3-point shooting. I think we will miss Grayson and Royce and that our deficiencies as a team were heavily masked by our strong 3-point shooting. Now we're just sort of mediocre to bad at everything.

You guys are talking about ManMan being a top-10 center. I also think he's got a lot of potential to be a good NBA center. But we doubled down on Mark Williams by re-signing him, and Coach seems to love Oso, so I dunno if we'll have enough minutes for Maluach. I also think Br****s will inhibit our ability to play Fleming enough minutes to grow and develop.

Last season was a real breath of fresh air, and I'm proud of what the team accomplished. But I think this summer, outside of re-signing some of our core guys, was a step in the wrong direction. IMO we'll be fighting for the play-in and will be lucky to get there. The main thing we have going for us is that the West seems to have gotten weaker this summer, so maybe we can tread water just by default.

I will note that I was dead wrong about us last year, and I am widely regarded as a dumb idiot. So hopefully I will be wrong this time, again.

I don’t think Bridges is a great fit either, but I don’t think he’s a bad fit. I think the team definitely improved on paper(we’ll see about on the court), though not enough to have given up the 2033 1st.

I would say we succeeded mostly with defense and offensive rebounding last year. We were an ok 3 point shooting team, but I would not describe us as a strong team. We shot 36% as a team which was 12th in the nba. We have essentially the same team with 2 changes…Miles replaces Grayson and Kennard replaces Royce. Kennard is arguably the best role playing shooter in the game. Royce and Gillespie were the best 3 point shooters last year(by a long shot). Gillespie is still here and Kennard can do everything Royce did.

Grayson was low key a bad 3 point shooter last year(by his standards). He shot a lot, but he made less than 35%. Miles is certainly better suited for the driving to the basket role that we asked Grayson to do last year. I’m gonna wait to actually see it, but there’s a decent amount of people, smarter than me, saying that Miles can pass. He certainly has the physical tools to be a good defender. Maybe he’ll be better for us.

I will say that there’s definitely some wishful thinking in this. I kinda expect about 42-46 wins and a play-in team again. Hoping someone surprises us and pushes us up a level. 48-50 wins and a 6 seed would be a success imo.

Kennard to me is the replacement of Allen 100% and we will have to see how large the gap is because Allen, while not lockdown, was intense on defense and Kennard is a real liability. Salary surely is vastly different (6M vs 18.6M).

On the other hand, I don't see Kennard and O'Neale as similar. Kennard is much more selective with his shooting (to a fault sometimes) whereas O'Neale never met a shot he did not like. Also O'Neale is more physical; not as good of a defender as his 3D reputation might suggest but he was strong on the boards and a surprising prolific passer.

But O'Neale was a forward for us and that's what Bridges will be. Now it also remains to be seen if the net result is positive as we surely give up shooting but gain playmaking and rebounding. Defense might also improve depending on how you assess the change in physical profiles from O'Neale to Bridges, but in any case the new guy has never been a defensive savant.

To me the real impact is related to Fleming as I wanted to give him a ton of playing time and I don't know if that will be the case. Now we also have Koa who I love as a prospect (at #30) but minutes will be hard to get. You can make the case that this is how you develop guys, by making them earn their minutes. But finding opportunities will be a huge challenge and I hate it as, in my mind, it is a self-imposed issue for the sake of a Miles Bridges on an expiring contract acquired at the price of our lone available premium draft asset. Really, can't stop thinking that we paid dearly for a solution to a problem we did not have.

[Split T]

I think I’m looking at the offense for comparing Miles/Kennard to Grayson/Royce. We aren’t going to give the significant on ball role that we gave Grayson last year, to Kennard. That is going to Miles. Kennard is going to be asked to mostly spot up and shoot 3s…kinda like Royce. So I don’t really see how he’s the Grayson replacement. Replaces what Grayson did in previous years, but not last year.

Defensively might be another story, but honestly, Royce was a defensive liability like Kennard is going to be. We will see on Miles.

But that’s how I’m choosing to look at it. We took Grayson and turned him into a bigger player who is better at getting to the rim. Lost some shooting in the process. Royce was attached for salary reasons and we replaced his shooting with Kennard…with some expectation that Highsmith and Fleming can fill some of that as well.