Around the League: Week 19 3/2-3/8

[Indy]

Quick response is that I never said Bledsoe isn't an asset. Everyone on our team, and our picks, and our trade exemption are assets.

What I said is that giving up more assets to get back what we had sucks. We might have to do it if we decide to go all-out rebuild, but I don't think our front office is leaning that way... too bad.

[Indy]

I am simply pointing out that Bledsoe's bird rights turned to be so obviously valuable that there's reason to think Knight's should be as well. The situations aren't just analogous - they're the same.

I disagree with this completely. Nothing about having Bledsoe's bird rights would have changed what happened last summer. We bid against ourselves--nobody else even extended a deal to him after they heard he wanted a max contract. I would argue that having his bird rights actually hindered us, since it made our front office feel like they had to do SOMETHING to keep him. ANYTHING. So they gave him almost what he asked for in hopes that this year would be another step change like last year was.

[OE32]

If we had traded Bledsoe for Knight, would that have been a mistake? If so, why?

I say yes, because I think Bledsoe's at leas marginally better than Knight. Also, because he's under contract, he has greater liquidity as an asset (we could trade him for picks now, whereas we might have to wait a year to realize similar value for Knight, should we decide to liquidate).

But then again, I think the Kings pick in this year's draft + Stauskas >>> Ennis, the LA pick and Plumlee. So combined, Knight, Stauskas, Kings pick > Bledsoe, Ennis, LA pick and Plumlee.

I'll say it again: this was about liquidating that LA pick to get fixed value in the form of Brandon Knight. A swap transaction.

It just seems like the board's willing to jump to any proposition that jives with conclusion that McD is a moron, no matter how inconsistent those propositions may be.

[Indy]

I'll say it again: this was about liquidating that LA pick to get fixed value in the form of Brandon Knight. A swap transaction.

I guess we just have a huge difference of opinion here. In now way do I think the LA pick, plus Ennis, plus Plumlee is worth 30 games of Brandon Knight. I would say Ennis and Plumlee would be close, but the LA pick just makes it well over the top for them.

[Mori Chu]

I think it's a really interesting hypothetical: What would have happened with Bledsoe last offseason if he had been an UFA the whole time? Would he have left out of frustration? Would we have retained him, and if so, at what price?

[OE32]

I think Bled clearly would have left.

In addition to the right to match in RFA, one thing you also get is the lower max. Free agents, generally, have been around longer, and their max deals reflect that. The max for players in their early twenties is not nearly as high as it is for players in their late-twenties. So with a UFA, not only can you not control him, you're also much less likely to be able to afford him. But then, usually, they're also in their prime. There's a time for everything. When you're contending (or pretending to contend, like Miami), you want to add a guy like that. It's all part of the cycle.

[pickle]

wow... i realize a lot of people dislike bledsoe, but to use him to move up 7 spots, vs., say, trading him straight up for the knicks' pick, is a bit extreme for me.

as suns fans, we dislike bledsoe, but league-wide he's still seen as a player with existing talent and a pool of potential that could be further untapped. i would be interested in the knicks' pick for sure, but i think, again, tossing him in just to move up 7 or 8 spots is a bit excessive.

[TOO]

Unloading his contract is in no way excessive, he just doesn't warrant what he's getting paid IMO.

[OE32]

Unloading his contract is in no way excessive, he just doesn't warrant what he's getting paid IMO.

Just wait til you see what players get paid this summer. I'm not going to do INF style research, but surely you were okay with letting Dragic go this summer? And perhaps, for that matter, never signing another UFA, ever? Do you think we'd have to pay someone to take Bled's contract, or do you think we'd likely get better offers than what we got for Dragic?

Sorry, you might dislike him, but I think arguing he's overpaid is sooooo 2013.

[Mori Chu]

I don't think Bledsoe is overpaid. I just don't think he is a good starting PG, because he doesn't look to pass enough and look for his teammates.

[Indy]

I don't think Bledsoe is overpaid. I just don't think he is a good starting PG, because he doesn't look to pass enough and look for his teammates.

So you think starting PGs less than good should get paid +$14M/year?

[OE32]

I don't think Bledsoe is overpaid. I just don't think he is a good starting PG, because he doesn't look to pass enough and look for his teammates.

So you think starting PGs less than good should get paid +$14M/year?

I think we pay that abysmal center Bledsoe a very reasonable amount.

[Indy]

I don't think Bledsoe is overpaid. I just don't think he is a good starting PG, because he doesn't look to pass enough and look for his teammates.

So you think starting PGs less than good should get paid +$14M/year?

I think we pay that abysmal center Bledsoe a very reasonable amount.

You know better than that. We don't pay him to be a center. We pay him to be a PG. So in my opinion, you either think he is an above average PG on his first non-rookie contract, or you think he is over paid. From your stance, I understand you to believe him to be the former. But from the way Mori described him, I don't know how he can think he is paid fairly.

[Mori Chu]

I think a player is paid "fairly" if they're paid what the market would bear. And I think that if Bledsoe went on the market this offseason, he might well get the salary he's currently at, or even more. It's just a silly league. Goran freaking Dragic might get $20m a year. So is Bledsoe overpaid at $14m/year? I can't say that he is with any confidence.

I'm saying a different thing, that I personally would not prefer to spend that much of our money and cap on him at this point. Something can be fairly priced but still not something that you want to buy. I don't think a Prius is overpriced at $25k but I still don't want to spend $25k of my own money on one when I could spend that same money on something else.

[LazarusLong]

I think management paid him based on his exceptional athletic talent, gambling on a small body of evidence as a starting PG that Bledsoe would grow his basketball smarts into the position. So far, it's proven to be a precarious proposition.

[Indy]

I think a player is paid "fairly" if they're paid what the market would bear. And I think that if Bledsoe went on the market this offseason, he might well get the salary he's currently at, or even more. It's just a silly league. Goran freaking Dragic might get $20m a year. So is Bledsoe overpaid at $14m/year? I can't say that he is with any confidence.

I'm saying a different thing, that I personally would not prefer to spend that much of our money and cap on him at this point. Something can be fairly priced but still not something that you want to buy. I don't think a Prius is overpriced at $25k but I still don't want to spend $25k of my own money on one when I could spend that same money on something else.

Got it. I understand the logic there about not thinking he is worth that to you as a Suns fan, and open-market stuff. I just have a hard time saying a "not good" quality starting PG is worth 14.

As for the open market, I have a very hard time believing anyone but us would have paid him that. He didn't get a single offer once he let it be known what his starting point was in negotiations. We screwed ourselves there.

[Indy]

I think management paid him based on his exceptional athletic talent, gambling on a small body of evidence as a starting PG that Bledsoe would grow his basketball smarts into the position. So far, it's proven to be a precarious proposition.

This probably doesn't come across enough with me, but I really love some of the things he does. I LOVE when Bledsoe fight for rebounds and is pulling down over 5 boards a game. I LOVE that Bledsoe can seemingly get to the basket by anyone. I LOVE that he is not afraid of taking big shots. And recently, I have noticed an effort on his part to get the ball inside more to Len.

All that said, for nearly every one of those points, there is a counterpoint to his game that really are drawbacks, and mostly related to BBIQ. I am not sure those things are going to get better, but as long as he is on our team, I am going to root for him to get better. I just don't believe he will, and that is why I advocate finding a different starting PG.

[OE32]

I believe Eric would get upwards of $17 per on the open market currently.

I think he's a tremendous defensive guard, a good finisher, and an increasingly reliable outside shooter. He is not, however, a dynamic playmaker, and he's not a leader. You need to put him next to a playmaker in the back court (I'm hoping Knight fits the bill - we've seen only flashes yet). And he needs to learn to give up the ball more quickly, trust his teammates.

Given the depth at the PG position in the NBA, I like having one of the best defensive PGs. So, for me, the contract's well worth it. He has growing to do, and the roster could use a lot of work. I'm willing to watch him play out for at least another year and a half before I start thinking about a new direction - unless a great offer comes along.

[Indy]

a good finisher

I think he is an awful finisher. He is always looking for contact, and values that more than making his shot.

tremendous defensive guard

I think he looks tremendous on our team because of how awful we are, but no way is he a top defensive talent in the league.

[Indy]

I believe Eric would get upwards of $17 per on the open market currently.

That is the max he was allowed to get, right? Who would have paid him that before we gave him +14?