Phx-Suns.Net

Sunsfan4life wrote:Sorry if that offended you, just because you disagreed with him haha.

I really only expressed that I disagreed with him, and questioned the validity of the point he made. I'm not sure where you're getting the taking offense part.

Sunsfan4life wrote:Its funny its like any time someone gives Markieff Morris a little love you get a little pissy. You don't like him, we get it by the countless times you show up to game day threads to point out a bad play he had or a bad game he had.

Almost as bad as telling Kieff haters to suck it when he's having a career night.

And just to be accurate:

INFORMER wrote:Double figure rebounds for Markieff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INFORMER wrote:

Xylus wrote:Markieff is SO. FUCKING. CLUTCH.

Have to give him that.

INFORMER wrote: This team is really dangerous when Markieff can get it going from 3. He's had the touch from beyond the arc the last two games. Good to see.

INFORMER wrote: Although this was another game where Markieff turned the ball over a ton and rebounded poorly, one thing he has a regular habit of doing is finding ways to be productive. He chipped in 4 dimes and 4 steals, which is nice to see.

Don't let comments like that get in your way of painting my commentary on Markieff as being fueled by an unbalanced, petty personal dislike.

INFORMER wrote:

Sunsfan4life wrote:Its funny its like any time someone gives Markieff Morris a little love you get a little pissy. You don't like him, we get it by the countless times you show up to game day threads to point out a bad play he had or a bad game he had.

Almost as bad as telling Kieff haters to suck it when he's having a career night.

And just to be accurate:

INFORMER wrote:Double figure rebounds for Markieff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INFORMER wrote:

Xylus wrote:Markieff is SO. FUCKING. CLUTCH.

Have to give him that.

INFORMER wrote: This team is really dangerous when Markieff can get it going from 3. He's had the touch from beyond the arc the last two games. Good to see.

INFORMER wrote: Although this was another game where Markieff turned the ball over a ton and rebounded poorly, one thing he has a regular habit of doing is finding ways to be productive. He chipped in 4 dimes and 4 steals, which is nice to see.

Don't let comments like that get in your way of painting my commentary on Markieff as being fueled by an unbalanced, petty personal dislike.

Nice research.

I don't think anywhere in my post did I say you never complimented the man nor did I say your dislike for him was petty or unbalanced...those are your words not mine.

But I also didn't think it was a secret you did not like him as a player at his contract. I'm not one to dig through posts, but I'm sure I can find it.
Look, your even ruffled at the fact that I said suck it to his haters when he had a big night. Why did that bother you? Was I wrong to tell his haters suck it? Better question why did you think that was directed at you?

INFORMER wrote:

Sunsfan4life wrote:Sorry if that offended you, just because you disagreed with him haha.

I really only expressed that I disagreed with him, and questioned the validity of the point he made. I'm not sure where you're getting the taking offense part.

Well before I dive into this any further, Maybe I should ask what you meant by the "trumpeting" part...followed by what I took was a sarcastic "OK" after it, just so we're clear.

Sunsfan4life wrote:I don't think anywhere in my post did I say you never complimented the man nor did I say your dislike for him was petty or unbalanced...those are your words not mine.

Those were my words, and it's the insinuation I feel you made by saying I get pissy anytime someone shows Markieff love.

Additionally, I feel saying I "countless" of times show up on a thread to blast Markieff is also an insinuation that paints me as some poster trolling to be attack Markieff.

So the words I used were merely my articulation of the characterization your comments provided. And I feel the quotes I provided refute that characterization.

Sunsfan4life wrote:But I also didn't think it was a secret you did not like him as a player at his contract.

This a more precise statement than merely saying I don't like him. My beef is hardly with Markieff; it's with the decision McDonough made. If Markieff was on any other team beside the one I care about the most, I probably wouldn't say a single negative thing about him.

Sunsfan4life wrote:Look, your even ruffled at the fact that I said suck it to his haters when he had a big night. Why did that bother you? Was I wrong to tell his haters suck it?

Well it was low class, and it was also a nice piece of front-running, but besides that, I just felt you're not in a position to call me out after making a comment like that.

Sunsfan4life wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

Sunsfan4life wrote:Sorry if that offended you, just because you disagreed with him haha.

I really only expressed that I disagreed with him, and questioned the validity of the point he made. I'm not sure where you're getting the taking offense part.

Well before I dive into this any further, Maybe I should ask what you meant by the "trumpeting" part...followed by what I took was a sarcastic "OK" after it, just so we're clear.

"Trumpeting" was probably poor word choice on my part. Anyway, I think it's disingenuous to claim the intent and tenor of your post was merely informative. The "Not bad for a team who's some of its fans want to "blow it up"" crack suggests otherwise.

Sunsfan4life wrote:Look, your even ruffled at the fact that I said suck it to his haters when he had a big night. Why did that bother you? Was I wrong to tell his haters suck it?

Well it was low class, and it was also a nice piece of front-running, but besides that, I just felt you're not in a position to call me out after making a comment like that.

[/quote]

Please. Its not front running or low class. If you took offense to it, its because you consider yourself a Markieff "Hater". I never mentioned you by name...and the front running comment is bogus. I am in a lot of threads and several times this year I have pointed out how Kieff is shutting his haters up with clutch shots. As pointed out earlier he gets a lot of hate on this board so, it may of been the first time I used those specific words, but not the first time I have stated how Kieff is better then people give him credit for. If you have a problem with the term "suck it haters" then the YES SIR MFERS that was going around the board for the longest time due to Gentry must have made you irate.

"Trumpeting" was probably poor word choice on my part. Anyway, I think it's disingenuous to claim the intent and tenor of your post was merely informative. The "Not bad for a team who's some of its fans want to "blow it up"" crack suggests otherwise.

My statement was 4 commentators commented this week on how we aren't afraid of anyone not bad for a team, who's some of its fans want to blow it up.What part of that statement do you have a problem with? The 4 commentators thing is a fact, so just to go at Simmons credibility in that statement seems like a reach. Especially when its an opinion..and yes judging by your response you seemed upset by it.

Furthermore, You act like Simmions Credibility is hurt by him ranking Morris 40 in his trade value column. Its not a far stretch to think Morris has the most trade value on our team all things considered. If you want to disagree fine, I wasn't posting it to back up or validate any opinion I had, its really in the eye of the beholder, but to dismiss it like it makes the person writing the article unreliable seems like a reach and a half.

Sunsfan4life wrote: If you took offense to it, its because you consider yourself a Markieff "Hater". I never mentioned you by name.

Just to be clear, it doesn't matter to me if it was directed at me or not. I wasn't offended by it, or, to put it another way, I don't feel that you wronged me personally by saying that.

Sunsfan4life wrote:If you have a problem with the term "suck it haters" then the YES SIR MFERS that was going around the board for the longest time due to Gentry must have made you irate.

I don't see the connection between the two.

Sunsfan4life wrote: but to dismiss it like it makes the person writing the article unreliable seems like a reach and a half.

Is it? I wasn't dismissing the entire article, nor trying to make some general claim about Simmons's ability as analyst. If someone watches the Suns and evaluates the roster, and comes to the conclusion that Markieff Morris is the most valuable trade commodity, then yes, at best, I believe their evaluation of the Suns is suspect at best at leads me to not take anything they have to say about the team seriously.

What if he is right. Age, contract, production, position, durability, style of game.

Warren, Ennis, Archie have showed nothing.

Bledsoe is injury prone until proves durability, and arguably overpaid. IT3 is too flawed. Dragic is expiring.

Maybe Len is the only one who has a case against Kieff.

What if Markieff at 8M per is actually terrific value, despite being, yes, player.

I certainly wouldn't say speaking in favor of that notion merits to call someone clueless, suspect or whatever about the Suns.

And actually, I am inclined to agree with it.

Teams aren't even sure you can split up the Twins. And the interest in acquiring both of them isn't high. That affects his trade value. He's a poor rebounder and suspect defender. That lowers his value too.

And despite being expiring, teams are looking to acquire Dragic. I know you think an expiring contract makes a player nearly valueless on the trade market, but with players as good as Dragic it is a different story. It may have an effect on his value, but not to this extent.

INFORMER wrote:Teams aren't even sure you can split up the Twins. And the interest in acquiring both of them isn't high. That affects his trade value. He's a poor rebounder and suspect defender. That lowers his value too.

The thing is, you don't know that. One man's... stale bread or something.

I know you think an expiring contract makes a player nearly valueless on the trade market

You don't know that, because it's not true. What is true is that the trade value of a good player is higher if he is under control for a long time, and it is lower if he is expiring.

If someone watches the Suns and evaluates the roster, and comes to the conclusion that Markieff Morris is the most valuable trade commodity, then yes, at best, I believe their evaluation of the Suns is suspect at best at leads me to not take anything they have to say about the team seriously.

And here is our problem. I don't think you can follow the suns as much people on this board do and dismiss Morris as being there most, or one of there most, valuable trade assets without disliking him as a player. Dragics Age and Contract/Bleds Contract and Durability/ Len's durability. I already stated why I thought he'd be in the conversation, and again everything I said is factual. So I guess Ring Wanted, Carey, Me, and probably others you don't take our opinions "seriously".

Teams aren't even sure you can split up the Twins. And the interest in acquiring both of them isn't high. That affects his trade value.

No evidence to support that. This is your opinion.

And despite being expiring, teams are looking to acquire Dragic. I know you think an expiring contract makes a player nearly valueless on the trade market, but with players as good as Dragic it is a different story. It may have an effect on his value, but not to this extent.

You have no evidence to support that. The only teams that have been linked to the suns about trading for Dragic was Indiana this fall and it was for Roy Hibbert. I am going big picture and Big picture says Goran is 28 and Kieff is 25. Kieff is locked in under a reasonable deal and Goran will probabaly command max money until his mid 30's. Kieff is more durable then Goran. This is an opinion question though, so to suggest you know Gorans worth based on what teams are offering the suns or if they are is silly. FTR, Dragic is by far my favorite Suns player, I'm just being realistic.

The discussion has gotten a bit emotional. Kieff is a talented player who keeps improving. He took a huge leap last year, and he's taken another leap this year. That's impressive. He's become a very effective scorer. He's not great at rebounding or defense, so as a PF he's limited in some ways. I like him a lot and feel like we have our starting PF, that we don't need to find a better one to fix Kieff's flaws. His current skill level and expected natural development going forward are enough for me. I wouldn't mind if his backup at PF were better at rebounding or 1-on-1 defense in case we need that, but I don't think Kieff needs to go or needs to come off the bench. At this point the idea of making Markieff a bench player is ludicrous and will never happen, so anybody who suggests trading for / signing some stud PF and bringing Kieff in off the bench just gets an eye roll from me.

In this particular context, we are talking about trade value. You can't trade the Morris brothers separately any more; they're a package deal. I agree with INF that this hurts the general trade value because you have to make 2 roster spots for them, and because Marcus Morris really isn't anything special as NBA SFs go. I don't really agree with INF's statement that "interest in acquiring both isn't high." We don't know that, and if anything, teams probably wouldn't call us about the Morrii because we just signed them and are happy with them, so we're unlikely to trade them.

I do agree with INF's statement that teams want to acquire Dragic. He's already been linked to the Lakers and Rockets. We'll have to work hard if we want to keep him. I do think this has a lot to do with the fact that Dragic is expiring and feels "gettable" to other teams given the fact that the Suns have 3 PGs. They probably figure he's expendable to us and that we aren't willing to enter a bidding war to keep him. And they may be right.

Mori Chu wrote:They probably figure he's expendable to us and that we aren't willing to enter a bidding war to keep him. And they may be right.

I don't think that's true. He's Sarver's guy.

I hope you are right. But Sarver isn't typically willing to overpay a player, even if he likes that player. What if somebody offers Dragic the max?

The other awkwardness comes from Bledsoe's contract. Don't you have to give Dragic essentially the same amount? If you give one more or less than the other, doesn't that lead to awkwardness in the locker room? So if you want to steal Dragic, don't you just offer him more than Bledsoe is making?

Also, Dragic is a UFA. He may be Sarver's guy, but if he decides that he wants to leave, there isn't really anything Sarver or McDo can do about that.

No one is going to give Dragic 30% of the cap next year. I just don't see it. He's not a dominant player like that. $12M to $14M. This era's Ginobili sure, but you'd never say Ginobili is worth $18M.