Phx-Suns.Net

JCSunsfan wrote: Funny. I was on a Wizards board and there were a number there who said that they would rather have Humphries than Kieff, period- even if the pick wasn't included.

Interesting take. He's easily twice the rebounder that Markieff is. I think they were looking for some scoring from the 4 spot as they didn't really have that at all. In fact they are still starting Dudley at PF right now.

I'm watching Gonzaga v. St. Mary's on ESPN2 atm. Good game but I'm afraid Mark Few's bunch are about to be cooked.

I'd be fine with us being a team that acts as a trade facilitator this summer - picking up players with contracts that go in to next season and getting some assets in return from the teams that are looking to make a splash in free agency.

That would be my preference.

I have no problem taking on bad contracts if we get something in return. It just really sucks when you are the one giving out those bad contracts. On mediocre players. And think they are your future.

Precisely.

Like Dallas giving Wes Matthews that ridiculous deal.

Yeah, I can't believe Dallas shelled out that much money for a guy coming off of a torn Achilles. That's just crazy.

Just Cuban things. Like Parsons. But I respect him because he has gone all in for Dirk for who know how long. Won't get them another title, but it will allow Dirk to retire a lifelong Mav and he'll do so with dignity and competing.

carey wrote:I said we could wait till Summer to trade him and be no worse off than we are now.

I've been toying with trade scenarios for Kieff all season long, often including a pick and a prospect, but if that was not available at the deadline, I am not sure waiting until the summer gets you those two assets.

The closer to the draft, the more valuable picks turn, and in the offseason you can't take advantage of teams desperatedly trying to make the playoffs. Besides, once the season is over the NBA becomes a way wider and unpredictable maket.

Anyway, the team needed to move on from this stupid saga and it is a relief it's finally been done. After demanding a trade, Kieff should have neved made the opening roster but that's water under the bridge now.

Ring_Wanted wrote:The closer to the draft, the more valuable picks turn, and in the offseason you can't take advantage of teams desperatedly trying to make the playoffs. Besides, once the season is over the NBA becomes a way wider and unpredictable maket.

Anyway, the team needed to move on from this stupid saga and it is a relief it's finally been done. After demanding a trade, Kieff should have neved made the opening roster but that's water under the bridge now.

McD was asked in his most recent interview on AZSports whether we could have gotten this deal for Keef during the summer. He said no. So we decided to wait in order to get a (pretty good) return on him. That decision hurt our brand more than our season, because without Keef, assuming the injuries happen anyway (though a butterfly flaps its wings...), we were going to lose games this year.

As for the value of picks, it's my impression that their value comes in waves. Distant picks have less value than upcoming picks for reasons that mirror the time value of money. But as you approach the draft, scouts' perception of its quality affect the value of the picks, and they can go up or down as it gets closer. Nearing draft day, I feel that lotto picks increase in value and lower picks stay flat, and then on draft day, as reality sets in, lower picks start to decline in value as reality sets in. And as soon as you draft players, they, like cars, generally decrease pretty substantially in value almost immediately. Case in point - almost everyone agrees that Winslow's had a good rookie year, but who thinks the Heat could get 4 first rounders for him? With new players, like new cars, dreaming is usually more alluring than reality. By comparison, Booker and Turner could probably be exchanged for more today than on draft night. Oubre was traded for Hardaway, Jr. The point is, the value of picks is dynamic and time-sensitive. The only way to win that game is to draft the right player, which is easier said than done.

OE32 wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:The closer to the draft, the more valuable picks turn, and in the offseason you can't take advantage of teams desperatedly trying to make the playoffs. Besides, once the season is over the NBA becomes a way wider and unpredictable maket.

Anyway, the team needed to move on from this stupid saga and it is a relief it's finally been done. After demanding a trade, Kieff should have neved made the opening roster but that's water under the bridge now.

McD was asked in his most recent interview on AZSports whether we could have gotten this deal for Keef during the summer. He said no. So we decided to wait in order to get a (pretty good) return on him. That decision hurt our brand more than our season, because without Keef, assuming the injuries happen anyway (though a butterfly flaps its wings...), we were going to lose games this year.

As for the value of picks, it's my impression that their value comes in waves. Distant picks have less value than upcoming picks for reasons that mirror the time value of money. But as you approach the draft, scouts' perception of its quality affect the value of the picks, and they can go up or down as it gets closer. Nearing draft day, I feel that lotto picks increase in value and lower picks stay flat, and then on draft day, as reality sets in, lower picks start to decline in value as reality sets in. And as soon as you draft players, they, like cars, generally decrease pretty substantially in value almost immediately. Case in point - almost everyone agrees that Winslow's had a good rookie year, but who thinks the Heat could get 4 first rounders for him? With new players, like new cars, dreaming is usually more alluring than reality. By comparison, Booker and Turner could probably be exchanged for more today than on draft night. Oubre was traded for Hardaway, Jr. The point is, the value of picks is dynamic and time-sensitive. The only way to win that game is to draft the right player, which is easier said than done.

Good post OE, very close analogy with money and cars. I would add, that another factor that affects the value of far in the future picks, is that not so many GM's have the job security, to feel they actually would pick themselves, instead of serving the table for someone else.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

OE32 wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:The closer to the draft, the more valuable picks turn, and in the offseason you can't take advantage of teams desperatedly trying to make the playoffs. Besides, once the season is over the NBA becomes a way wider and unpredictable maket.

Anyway, the team needed to move on from this stupid saga and it is a relief it's finally been done. After demanding a trade, Kieff should have neved made the opening roster but that's water under the bridge now.

McD was asked in his most recent interview on AZSports whether we could have gotten this deal for Keef during the summer. He said no. So we decided to wait in order to get a (pretty good) return on him. That decision hurt our brand more than our season, because without Keef, assuming the injuries happen anyway (though a butterfly flaps its wings...), we were going to lose games this year.

As for the value of picks, it's my impression that their value comes in waves. Distant picks have less value than upcoming picks for reasons that mirror the time value of money. But as you approach the draft, scouts' perception of its quality affect the value of the picks, and they can go up or down as it gets closer. Nearing draft day, I feel that lotto picks increase in value and lower picks stay flat, and then on draft day, as reality sets in, lower picks start to decline in value as reality sets in. And as soon as you draft players, they, like cars, generally decrease pretty substantially in value almost immediately. Case in point - almost everyone agrees that Winslow's had a good rookie year, but who thinks the Heat could get 4 first rounders for him? With new players, like new cars, dreaming is usually more alluring than reality. By comparison, Booker and Turner could probably be exchanged for more today than on draft night. Oubre was traded for Hardaway, Jr. The point is, the value of picks is dynamic and time-sensitive. The only way to win that game is to draft the right player, which is easier said than done.

Good post OE, very close analogy with money and cars. I would add, that another factor that affects the value of far in the future picks, is that not so many GM's have the job security, to feel they actually would pick themselves, instead of serving the table for someone else.

I agree. Great analogy and description of their value.

INFORMER wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

carey wrote:To be clear, those are moves I think are terrible and I'm worried the Suns might do.

They have to spend money. So does everyone else in the league.

That's an overstatement. I wouldn't let the salary floor be a motivation for any move.

This is exactly my sentiment. I could almost applaud Sarver for not re-upping Amare and letting him bolt to New York, but I absolutely hated spending that money right away on three useless guys. Or the same thing a few years ago, the Beasley moves.

Why don't we just sit on what we have, figure out which among our youngsters are keepers and which positions are truly of need, and spend that cap space when we are ready to contend? Are we (by we I mean Sarver and co., not people on this board) really so delusional that we have to chase the playoffs no matter the cost?

Ring_Wanted wrote:Just Cuban things. Like Parsons. But I respect him because he has gone all in for Dirk for who know how long. Won't get them another title, but it will allow Dirk to retire a lifelong Mav and he'll do so with dignity and competing.

Yeah I agree with this too. I think Cuban alone makes the Mavs relevant (in a good way), and that's more than can be said for the vast majority of owners in the league. Sometimes there are reasons other than basketball that you make moves for an NBA team, and so far I would say any mistakes Cuban has made have been more forgivable simply because he's kept the team relevant.

I know I keep beating on this dead horse, but I can live with rookie owner mistakes, but I cannot stand how the Suns went from being a destination with class and trust under Colangelo to what it has become today.

OE32 wrote: McD was asked in his most recent interview on AZSports whether we could have gotten this deal for Keef during the summer. He said no. So we decided to wait in order to get a (pretty good) return on him. That decision hurt our brand more than our season, because without Keef, assuming the injuries happen anyway (though a butterfly flaps its wings...), we were going to lose games this year.

As for the value of picks, it's my impression that their value comes in waves. Distant picks have less value than upcoming picks for reasons that mirror the time value of money. But as you approach the draft, scouts' perception of its quality affect the value of the picks, and they can go up or down as it gets closer. Nearing draft day, I feel that lotto picks increase in value and lower picks stay flat, and then on draft day, as reality sets in, lower picks start to decline in value as reality sets in. And as soon as you draft players, they, like cars, generally decrease pretty substantially in value almost immediately. Case in point - almost everyone agrees that Winslow's had a good rookie year, but who thinks the Heat could get 4 first rounders for him? With new players, like new cars, dreaming is usually more alluring than reality. By comparison, Booker and Turner could probably be exchanged for more today than on draft night. Oubre was traded for Hardaway, Jr. The point is, the value of picks is dynamic and time-sensitive. The only way to win that game is to draft the right player, which is easier said than done.

Great post OE. There was also some offer for the #9 pick for Kaminsky wasn't there? Forgot what that was.

Ainge offered something like six picks to Charlotte. But Charlotte declined and took Kaminski. The odd thing is that Ainge wanted to draft Winslow, not Kaminski.

Right, sorry. I should have phrased it as package for the 9th pick, rather than package for Kaminsky. Jordan declined so he could take Kaminsky because ... well, he felt it was worth more than whatever package was put together. Come to think of it, this may very well be the trade offer that OE was talking about.

pickle wrote:Right, sorry. I should have phrased it as package for the 9th pick, rather than package for Kaminsky. Jordan declined so he could take Kaminsky because ... well, he felt it was worth more than whatever package was put together. Come to think of it, this may very well be the trade offer that OE was talking about.

It is. It only stands to reason that if you're willing to give up four 1sts for the #9 pick to draft Player X, you're willing to give up four 1sts for the #10 pick to draft Player X.

OE32 wrote:

pickle wrote:Right, sorry. I should have phrased it as package for the 9th pick, rather than package for Kaminsky. Jordan declined so he could take Kaminsky because ... well, he felt it was worth more than whatever package was put together. Come to think of it, this may very well be the trade offer that OE was talking about.

It is. It only stands to reason that if you're willing to give up four 1sts for the #9 pick to draft Player X, you're willing to give up four 1sts for the #10 pick to draft Player X.

It does. But negotiating is weird sometimes. I think Ainge said something about being relieved that Charlotte said no. He felt he had offered too much.

Are we (by we I mean Sarver and co., not people on this board) really so delusional that we have to chase the playoffs no matter the cost?

I believe I read that each home playoff games equals an extra million in profit for the team. So in bad years when Sarver "only" makes 13-15M, those extra 2-3 games makes a big difference. And honestly, the average fan that attends those games is much more excited about getting to the playoffs than just missing them.