Phx-Suns.Net

Welp, this will be fun: https://twitter.com/DaveKingNBA/status/559478466404298752

“I feel like home is Phoenix. They give me everything. They bring me into the league. I have a lot of friends here, a lot of family. But that doesn’t mean anything, because I need to look at my career. We’ll see what is going to happen.”

TJ does seem asleep on defense when he gets into the games. It is a real shame.

Ring_Wanted wrote:Informer, I believe a good player under control holds more trade value than the same good player on an expiring contract, unless the player has agreed to staying with the team that trades for him.

That's fine. I don't even disagree with that general premise. I think the issue is to what degree does it lower the player's trade value. I feel the degree you seem to operate from is too extreme.

And I don't think the expiring nature of Goran's contract eliminates the talent gap between him and Markieff to the extent that it would swing trade value in Markieff's favor.

Probably already posted somewhere, but here is an article on Len.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

Wow...Dragic is just destroying his trade value. Smart move on his part. On one hand, he reduces the likelihood that the Suns trade him somewhere else, assuming that he still likes it here. On the other hand, he diminishes the talent that goes back to the Suns in trade, helping his future team in the event that he's traded. Every player in his position should do exactly what he is doing.

Regarding the Suns -- the IT signing is backfiring in a huge, huge way.

virtual9mm wrote:Wow...Dragic is just destroying his trade value. Smart move on his part. On one hand, he reduces the likelihood that the Suns trade him somewhere else, assuming that he still likes it here. On the other hand, he diminishes the talent that goes back to the Suns in trade, helping his future team in the event that he's traded. Every player in his position should do exactly what he is doing.

Regarding the Suns -- the IT signing is backfiring in a huge, huge way.

or the bledsoe resigning, if you want to look at it that way.

OE32 wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... ree-Agency

I really don't like our chances of re-signing him, actually. It's not really an ideal pairing for either party. Why pay $15m+ for a guy who doesn't improve your team because of the position you play him at?

That said, even if we do think he's leaving, it's unclear to me whether it would be a good idea to trade him. I think it's highly unlikely. I think he'll simply walk.

That is a really good, and really disappointing... well... point.

virtual9mm wrote:Wow...Dragic is just destroying his trade value. Smart move on his part.

By saying what nearly every impending free agent says?

virtual9mm wrote:Regarding the Suns -- the IT signing is backfiring in a huge, huge way.

Would it be backfiring if the Suns hadn't resigned Bledsoe?

OE32 wrote:Why pay $15m+ for a guy who doesn't improve your team because of the position you play him at?

Since when does Dragic not improve the team? Where is this coming from?

INFORMER wrote:

virtual9mm wrote:Wow...Dragic is just destroying his trade value. Smart move on his part.

By saying what nearly every impending free agent says?

virtual9mm wrote:Regarding the Suns -- the IT signing is backfiring in a huge, huge way.

Would it be backfiring if the Suns hadn't resigned Bledsoe?

INF -- yes, most FAs say exactly that, but Dragic was saying something very different at the beginning of the season. The shift in tone says volumes, not only to fans but also rival front offices.

Regarding the IT signing, the proper course of action would be to trade the asset you created ASAP before any real damage is done. Dec 15th would have been a good time...

There are so many whack takes in this thread.

virtual9mm wrote: INF -- yes, most FAs say exactly that, but Dragic was saying something very different at the beginning of the season. The shift in tone says volumes, not only to fans but also rival front offices.

Honestly, it is probably just his agent getting to him, trying to get Dragic to help him negotiate from a position of strength. It's all chess moves; Babby made his with bringing in Zoran, now Dragic's agent is getting Dragic to not sound so easy.

INFORMER wrote:

virtual9mm wrote: INF -- yes, most FAs say exactly that, but Dragic was saying something very different at the beginning of the season. The shift in tone says volumes, not only to fans but also rival front offices.

Honestly, it is probably just his agent getting to him, trying to get Dragic to help him negotiate from a position of strength. It's all chess moves; Babby made his with bringing in Zoran, now Dragic's agent is getting Dragic to not sound so easy.

they brought zoran over not to play him.

INFORMER wrote:

OE32 wrote:Why pay $15m+ for a guy who doesn't improve your team because of the position you play him at?

Since when does Dragic not improve the team? Where is this coming from?

even if you play dragic out of position, he's still the best player at that position

The report was focused on Goodwin's remarks on a trade bringing Reggie Bullock to Phoenix, adding another guard to a guard-heavy roster.

...

"Every time we have an opportunity to get better, we're going to do that and if that creates competition on our team then so be it," Babby said. "I think the players appreciate that and I think Archie appreciates that."

http://arizonasports.com/41/1801099/Pho ... in-Phoenix

But at some point Babby, stocking up on players that are redundant, play the same position, or have conflicting playing styles just becomes counterproductive.

I wish the front office started thinking more holistically. More gestalt, and less of a micro approach. Its like they just look at a player and say "oh he does this well, let's sign/extend/trade for him" without any consideration of how it fits the team, or how it helps to build a contender.

You can't take a piece of beef and make meat loaf with it expecting to turn it into filet mignon later on.

In some ways, this is more frustrating than the Blanks era. At least Blanks was so bad, you could see the end in sight and you knew his time was limited; Sarver's hand was going to be forced one way or another. The situation now is more insidious. There's a facade of excellence in place that is only going to feed futility.

I feel like we're taking a football approach where each position is 2-3 players deep so that if anyone gets injured or leaves via FA, "next man up". That's fine in football where there are so many positions and so may players to pull from in the draft and FA. Damn near everyone's replaceable. It's not like that in basketball. You need certain types of players to play a certain style and there are only so many. It's not as easy as, "Well, Goran left but we have Tyler and Archie", or "Green is gone so we'll just slide TJ and Marcus in there". Yea it's nice to have that depth but at the same time, those guys need to play at some point (not Marcus mind you, he needs to sit) and you may or may not need to tweak your system.

We don't have the luxury of doing it, but ideally you just let a guy like Archie, Tyler and TJ play. We can't afford to sit/rest Goran/Bledsoe or some of the other guys to develop or other young talent because we can't lose the games. But it would be nice to be able to let those guys loose every now and then. Pop can afford to rest TP, Manu and Duncan because guys like Mills, Joseph and Bonner have been on that team for years, know the system and can play when needed. Would love for us to get to that point.

INFORMER wrote:

OE32 wrote:Why pay $15m+ for a guy who doesn't improve your team because of the position you play him at?

Since when does Dragic not improve the team? Where is this coming from?

I read that Goran is 16th or 17th among 2 guards in RPM - right where Tucker is among SFs. So he's an average starting 2. Last year he was 6th among point guards. I realize no other 2's on this team are better than Goran, so he improves the team, but $15m is not what you pay an average starter.

I don't think RPM is a magic stat. But I've also not been super-impressed with our backcourt most of the season. Dragic doesn't hit 3's from the corner well, is an undersized defender at the 2 spot. He has some great qualities - he creates his own shot and shots for others at the 3 point line. I just don't think he makes us much better due to the abundance of PG's on our roster.

I think Dragic would obviously be better as a lead guard, making decisions and having the ball in his hands. He's somewhat marginalized due to Bledsoe, but you could say the same Bledsoe and IT3. If we had a legit, prototype 2 guard and just Bledsoe or Dragic getting 35mpg at the point, would we be better/more effective?

I do agree with the philosophy of not paying Dragic 15mil to be an average 2guard. And I don't think moving Bledsoe is the route we'd take in order to keep Dragic. Maybe the long term vision is Bledsoe and Archie in the backcourt. Can't say I don't see the potential in that.

I think Dragic would obviously be better as a lead guard, making decisions and having the ball in his hands. He's somewhat marginalized due to Bledsoe, but you could say the same Bledsoe and IT3. If we had a legit, prototype 2 guard and just Bledsoe or Dragic getting 35mpg at the point, would we be better/more effective?

Couldn't this change be made by coach ? I haven't watched many games this year but always seems Dragic should be lead guard and Bled SG, but not sure why that isn't the case.

- R

Robot wrote:

I think Dragic would obviously be better as a lead guard, making decisions and having the ball in his hands. He's somewhat marginalized due to Bledsoe, but you could say the same Bledsoe and IT3. If we had a legit, prototype 2 guard and just Bledsoe or Dragic getting 35mpg at the point, would we be better/more effective?

Couldn't this change be made by coach ? I haven't watched many games this year but always seems Dragic should be lead guard and Bled SG, but not sure why that isn't the case.

- R

I think the biggest reason is that Goran is the better shooter. If your penetration leads to a kick-out for a 3, Bledsoe's not the guy you want launching that shot.