Phx-Suns.Net

Read this piece just now. It is pretty old but the actual information was fresh to me. I'd been wondering about the post up play, and this certainly answers my questions.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/we-in ... s-rebirth/

That's a very good article, worth of a second read (many from Grantland are). The stretch forward is one of the most interesting things in the modern NBA.

About play in the post, it's funny how nowadays the guys who seem more skilled down there are not mostly the big men, but forwards/SGs (even some oldschool PGs like Payton, Penny or Andre Miller), as centers whose bread and butter is the post are effectively dying out. Okafor is a refreshing exception.

Still, it is sad that physically gifted players like Amare or Dwight Howard never acquired post fundamentals. It's a shame because these skills can prolong your effectiveness once your knees start to give out.

One could say it's a lack of bball education from becoming pro after high school, but certainly there is more to it since Al Jefferson is a savant post player (and a ton of college big men can't do crap in the paint either).

Ring_Wanted wrote:That's a very good article, worth of a second read (many from Grantland are). The stretch forward is one of the most interesting things in the modern NBA.

About play in the post, it's funny how nowadays the guys who seem more skilled down there are not mostly the big men, but forwards/SGs (even some oldschool PGs like Payton, Penny or Andre Miller), as centers whose bread and butter is the post are effectively dying out. Okafor is a refreshing exception.

Still, it is sad that physically gifted players like Amare or Dwight Howard never acquired post fundamentals. It's a shame because these skills can prolong your effectiveness once your knees start to give out.

One could say it's a lack of bball education from becoming pro after high school, but certainly there is more to it since Al Jefferson is a savant post player (and a ton of college big men can't do crap in the paint either).

It seems to be more about athleticism. When you are bigger and more athletic than everyone around you (growing up), you can literally just go dunk on 80% of your plays. You have no need to learn a back to the basket game. I can't imagine guys like Amare or Howard ever had to play against someone bigger, stronger, and as fast as they are/were.

Jefferson, on the other hand, isn't a specimen of athleticism.

Like most things in life, you get better by going against people better/faster/stronger/smarter than you are, much more than you ever thought possible.

The really good ones learn.

Olajuwon was all athleticism when he came into the league. During the offseason, he worked with Moses Malone and Elvin Hayes to refine his game and learn the tricks of the trade. Then he became dangerous.

Duncan learned from Robinson and Kevin Willis and a few others.

A guy who is being forgotten a bit in recent conversation is Al Horford, who has now added a three-pointer to his arsenal. This guy is as fundamentally solid as any big man.

Great points all around. Atlanta has succeeded becoming Spurs East, but without Horford and Millsap there's no way they could pull this off. I've really started to enjoy watching their games.

As for players improving their skill set, it's all about willpower, I guess. This is why I could never forgive Amare even though he's probably one of the best players to ever spend his prime here in Phoenix. If he wanted it as much as, say, Kobe, he could easily have been among the best ever. Instead he gave lots of predictions and was rarely able to back them up.

Many years ago I read somewhere that Kareem said that NCAA banning dunks helped his around the rim game even if it was clearly discriminatory. So yeah, being forced to develop skills is one way to go.

I really think that Amare wanted it, nearly as much as Kbe. I believe that he ended up messing up his knee by over training the summer after the '04-'05 season, where he was working out hard 3 times a day. He just had bad advice or took a bad plan of action. He should have concentrated on individual defense, in his work outs.

I get your point. Sitting where we are it's probably not fair or reasonable to judge whether one player has put in more effort than another. Let's just say Amare had the physical talent to be dominant on both sides of the floor but his game only really developed on the offensive side, and for that I will always hold a bit of a grudge.

Speaking of head coaches and competence, it is interesting how bold rotation moves can make your team look totally different and your coach look like he knows what he is doing.

Skiles has had the balls to bench the franchise cornerstone. Orlando is now using Fournier as starter and bringing Oladipo off the bench (also switched Gordon for Frye before) and have won 5 straight. Granted it is against relatively weak competition, but returns are encouraging.

I don't think Amar'e failed to develop for lack of trying. You either have it or you don't. Amar'e wasn't a natural basketball and wasn't coached up early enough to develop the fundamentals he needed.

ShelC wrote:I don't think Amar'e failed to develop for lack of trying. You either have it or you don't. Amar'e wasn't a natural basketball and wasn't coached up early enough to develop the fundamentals he needed.

I don't think he tried to develop his rebounding or his defense (besides trying to get highlight blocks).

Those are feel things. You either have it or you don't. Amar'e was a freak athlete who played basketball. He improved what he could (jumpshot) but nothing else came naturally to him.

ShelC wrote:Those are feel things. You either have it or you don't. Amar'e was a freak athlete who played basketball. He improved what he could (jumpshot) but nothing else came naturally to him.

I thought he developed a solid post game in the last few years. He just never had a chance to show it much, what with his knees giving out on him.

In2ition wrote:I really think that Amare wanted it, nearly as much as Kbe. I believe that he ended up messing up his knee by over training the summer after the '04-'05 season, where he was working out hard 3 times a day. He just had bad advice or took a bad plan of action. He should have concentrated on individual defense, in his work outs.

I don't know if anyone has watched lately, but Amare had developed a pretty decent low post game. His knees are just so shot that he is now a below the rim player.

Sorry OE. Practically identical post.

JCSunsfan wrote:Sorry OE. Practically identical post.

Great minds

Lost in Golden State's ridiculous start is how freaking amazing the Spurs have been. Especially on D.

Shabazz wrote:Lost in Golden State's ridiculous start is how freaking amazing the Spurs have been. Especially on D.

Should be one helluva WCF matchup this year.

Shabazz wrote:Lost in Golden State's ridiculous start is how freaking amazing the Spurs have been. Especially on D.

And lost in Curry's killing spree is how freaking Kawhi Leonard is leading the NBA in threes @50%3pt. Hit seven yesterday.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Shabazz wrote:Lost in Golden State's ridiculous start is how freaking amazing the Spurs have been. Especially on D.

And lost in Curry's killing spree is how freaking Kawhi Leonard is leading the NBA in threes @50%3pt. Hit seven yesterday.

Top 5 player in the NBA imo. Beast.

He's ridiculous.

Hey, who was he picked right after in the draft again?