Phx-Suns.Net

In2ition wrote:I apologize for being a broken record, but when is this team going to trade some of the crap on it? I kept hearing the 15th, but nothing has happened. I want something to give me a reason to at least be interested.

I've been asking a similar question myself recently.

Mori Chu wrote:I saw a rumor on another site of Love+Mozgov for Chandler+Kieff+Tucker+pick. Would any of you guys do that deal? I'd be pretty tempted. I still like Kevin Love and think he would be better on a different team.

Yes as long as it isn't ours this year or next.

Shabazz wrote:

In2ition wrote:I apologize for being a broken record, but when is this team going to trade some of the crap on it? I kept hearing the 15th, but nothing has happened. I want something to give me a reason to at least be interested.

I've been asking a similar question myself recently.

Hadn't noticed. The 15th was when talks might start as more players were available to trade. Things probably won't heat up until the trade deadline which is February 18th.

JCSunsfan wrote:

Mori Chu wrote:I saw a rumor on another site of Love+Mozgov for Chandler+Kieff+Tucker+pick. Would any of you guys do that deal? I'd be pretty tempted. I still like Kevin Love and think he would be better on a different team.

Depends on the pick. Cleveland pick. Yes, all day long. Our pick this year, or in any future year? Nope. Giving up future picks when you are bad is the easist way to end up like the Knicks or Nets. You have to guard those things with your life. Only giving them up if they are HIGHLY protected.

I wouldn't do that for either pick. Straight up, though, would be fair. They don't like Mozgov, and he isn't helping them. He probably won't be much better here. And Love is good, and they know it, but not good enough for them. I think that is a similar (albeit a different scale) than we have with Keef. And PJ can actually do them some real good this year. They are getting the better end of the deal without a pick, and are killing us if we give them a pick (even theirs).

djy2j wrote:I guess to me waving the white flag does not mean fire sale. It means that he's smart enough to know that trying to make the playoffs this year would be detrimental to the rebuilding process. You have to a tank hard for top 3. Anything outside of that doesn't help us.

I don't believe there is anything out there that we could get with what we have to offer (players only) that will turn us into a playoff team. Nobody wants Markieff. Tucker would get us nothing more than a 2nd rounder or a young unproven player. Chandler, I am not sure. If he had only 1 or 2 years left maybe but 3 more with the way he looks probably make him unmovable.

Tele, Knight, Tucker, Goodwin, Leuer are the only movable assets IMO. Booker, Warren,Len you keep. Len should only be moved in the right deal.

Keep in mind that season ticket renewal packages went out last week, including 'securing' your potential 2015-16 playoff tickets. He can't come out and say he knows we cannot make the playoffs. That would be stupid of him when his company is marketing in a big way right now.

I think that deal severely underestimates Love's value on the open market. It's like when Amare was struggling for us and out there in the great knowledge of the internet people were spreading rumors of Portland offering JJ Hickson for Amare.

Indy wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

Mori Chu wrote:I saw a rumor on another site of Love+Mozgov for Chandler+Kieff+Tucker+pick. Would any of you guys do that deal? I'd be pretty tempted. I still like Kevin Love and think he would be better on a different team.

Depends on the pick. Cleveland pick. Yes, all day long. Our pick this year, or in any future year? Nope. Giving up future picks when you are bad is the easist way to end up like the Knicks or Nets. You have to guard those things with your life. Only giving them up if they are HIGHLY protected.

I wouldn't do that for either pick. Straight up, though, would be fair. They don't like Mozgov, and he isn't helping them. He probably won't be much better here. And Love is good, and they know it, but not good enough for them. I think that is a similar (albeit a different scale) than we have with Keef. And PJ can actually do them some real good this year. They are getting the better end of the deal without a pick, and are killing us if we give them a pick (even theirs).

It's an absurd scenario, but surely you can't be serious.

If we wake up tomorrow and learn that somehow Chandler, Kieff and Tucker have been removed in exchange for expiring crap and one low 1stR, I am positive nobody is complaining.

Under the right light you could sell the right team on these vets but only for the right price, which is a massive discount. The Cavs could be that team and actually last season they made a move in the same mold to get JR and Iman, but using Love and Mozgov? That's GM suicide just based on opportunity cost.

pickle wrote:I think that deal severely underestimates Love's value on the open market. It's like when Amare was struggling for us and out there in the great knowledge of the internet people were spreading rumors of Portland offering JJ Hickson for Amare.

Actually, that was Cleveland at the time & the reports were they were so high on him they weren't sure they would include him in a deal.

They could have had Amare as #2 behind Lebron. Not clear that would have been a title team, but Amare would have easily been Lebron's best teammate of his first Cleveland stint.

Remember the reaction at the Suns draft party when it was announced that the Cavs were taking Andre Miller?

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Indy wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

Mori Chu wrote:I saw a rumor on another site of Love+Mozgov for Chandler+Kieff+Tucker+pick. Would any of you guys do that deal? I'd be pretty tempted. I still like Kevin Love and think he would be better on a different team.

Depends on the pick. Cleveland pick. Yes, all day long. Our pick this year, or in any future year? Nope. Giving up future picks when you are bad is the easist way to end up like the Knicks or Nets. You have to guard those things with your life. Only giving them up if they are HIGHLY protected.

I wouldn't do that for either pick. Straight up, though, would be fair. They don't like Mozgov, and he isn't helping them. He probably won't be much better here. And Love is good, and they know it, but not good enough for them. I think that is a similar (albeit a different scale) than we have with Keef. And PJ can actually do them some real good this year. They are getting the better end of the deal without a pick, and are killing us if we give them a pick (even theirs).

It's an absurd scenario, but surely you can't be serious.

If we wake up tomorrow and learn that somehow Chandler, Kieff and Tucker have been removed in exchange for expiring crap and one low 1stR, I am positive nobody is complaining.

Under the right light you could sell the right team on these vets but only for the right price, which is a massive discount. The Cavs could be that team and actually last season they made a move in the same mold to get JR and Iman, but using Love and Mozgov? That's GM suicide just based on opportunity cost.

Hear me out (sorry for rambling in advance).

If Cleveland ends up moving Love, they are announcing that they screwed up that signing and he isn't the great player that they envisioned. That means they don't want him for that price anymore. That gives us an advantage. They know they aren't getting back equal value for him. Just like us with Keef. He could be very, very good for them, so worth more to them than us.

I think PJ could certainly help him, especially in limited minutes. He is worth more to them than he is to us, too.

Mozgov turns 30 this summer (and will certainly get a big raise as he is expiring). This is his 6th year, and has really only been able to stay on the court last year (25 mpg).

Shooting/Scoring: Besides last year's 3p% (which he hasn't duplicated this year), he can't hit a shot outside of 3 feet. His 3'-10' shooting percentage is literally 35%. Same from 10-16' and a little better from 16-<3p. His 3p is 18%.

Rebounding: His rebounding rate is 15.5 for his career, and is on the decline. For comparison, Len is a 16.4 for his career, and has actually gone up nearly a full point each year (17.1 this year).

He isn't very valuable for either of us.

Tyson is the only wrinkle in this. He does us no good since we suck. He might not do Cleveland any good either, but there is a better chance than here. But it is a lot to pay for an aging center. So that could be seen as a net positive to Suns with him moving over.



So I guess I see it this way from strictly a basketball perspective this year (not dollars yet):

Keef: Moderate to high net positive to Cleveland, neutral to Suns. Win to CLE.

PJ: Medium net positive to CLE, negative to Suns (even though I want him gone so our young guys can learn/play, when he plays limited minutes, and at the 4, he can be very effective). Win to CLE.

Tyson: Likely neutral to both: No winner

Mozgov: Likely neutral to both: No winner

Love: Moderate to high net positive for Suns, Moderate to low net negative for CLE. Win to Suns.


Now to money only (not the play on the court this year):

Keef and PJ--Very reasonable deals. Keef is locked in at 8 million, which is well under market. PJ is aging, but only has one more year and it only at 5M. Both clearly good deals for CLE.

Tyson: 3 more years at 13M. Clearly a win for Suns.

Mozgov: Expiring, expecting a raise from his 4.6M. Asset is only going to get more expensive to keep, and by now he is what he is. Net negative for Suns.

Love: 4 years and 95M left on his deal. Yeah, 95M. Huge net win for Cavs, huge risk for Suns.


That is my simple way of looking at it. And honestly, I think Cleveland is in a position where they have to do something. They will clearly lose to GS again, maybe even worse than last year. If they stand pat, and just hope having Kyrie and Love healthy will change things, and they don't, I think his job could be in trouble. So we actually have some leverage. We should actually have leverage with any team that wants to get better by adding a pretty good stretch four on a great deal, or a spark plug 3D guy at the 3/4 in PJ with little future risk, or even a decent backup center if they just need to be pushed over the top.

Now you can return back to your scoffing!

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/689878386089553920

And with that splash McD is probably kicking back with his feet on his desk thinking about what a great job he did resigning Jefferson.

djy2j wrote:And with that splash McD is probably kicking back with his feet on his desk thinking about what a great job he did resigning Jefferson.

Probably will be the only healthy PF tomorrow night aside from Tucker who can play spot minutes there. So I guess Warren's 3 minutes last night were also because of injury and not just because he wasn't hustling.

Indy: Good post about the Cavs/Suns trade rumor. I don't think CLE pulls the trigger on a big trade before the deadline. I think they want to give it one more try with their whole team healthy. Yes, that healthy roster just got blown out by Golden State, but you have to give it one playoff shot with the whole team on the court. Who knows if they would even face GS in the playoffs? It could be the Spurs or Thunder.

My guess would be that the Suns and Cavs could try to make a Love-centered deal this coming summer.

There's just no way Cleveland gives up Love for that bag of dicks

Indy, in my opinion that scenario is the classic dollar for cents trade.

I can see Mozgov becoming prohibitive after the tax and if he is not at the top of his game like last season, he is a good candidate to be let go and even for a move this very season. I agree his value to us is zero, but that's not Cleveland's concern when dealing with us. By all means send him elsewhere in this scenario.

Love, you don't trade him for three guys who come with question marks right and left. Age, contracts, attitude, production, still brutal l-tax... Other teams pay attention and if I were them, I could be willing to take these underperforming Suns but never at the cost of a premium asset, which Love still is. Despite his production slipping he remains a star, in his prime and under contract. Pretty similar to Bosh before his current contract.

Varejao, Mozgov, a pick, a trade exception and filler? Sure. Kevin Love? No way if I am Cleveland. Our guys make sense to the Cavs for the reasons you stated, but from a strategic standpoint they only become a target if they come at a discount. Not even getting into sunk cost given the price they paid for Love, or factoring in the media storm their FO would face. In the end, it comes down to being able to find a better offer for Kevin Love if you were to move him, and our package can easily be outbid, be it terms of actual production, cap wise or both.

Kevin Love would've been fine with Goran Dragic, not with the shit we have. We need to rebuild this team from the ground up, everyone is tradeable except for maybe Booker, that's it.

iLLmatic wrote:Kevin Love would've been fine with Goran Dragic, not with the shit we have. We need to rebuild this team from the ground up, everyone is tradeable except for maybe Booker, that's it.

Disagree. I like EB-Booker-Warren-Love-Len. A lot.

-EB is injury prone.
-Warren has been a disappointment and lacks any sort of consistency. How much of that has to do with the coaching? I don't know.
-Alex Len has been a disappointment and is also injury prone.