Phx-Suns.Net

Winning cures everything. We have some good young pieces and a lot of future draft picks. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. You never know what ping pong balls are going to drop and you never know how a draft pick will perform until they do, asshole owner or not.

The Spurs retooled like they always do. We aren't the Spurs.

Face it, I grew up here and have been a a Suns fan for a long time. I will probably support them no matter what. I won't bash Sarver. I will hope he learns as he goes and becomes a good owner. Nobody buys a team so they can drive it into the ground. Rookies make rookie mistakes and learn from them and become veterans.

The glass is half full.

Nodack wrote:Winning cures everything. We have some good young pieces and a lot of future draft picks. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. You never know what ping pong balls are going to drop and you never know how a draft pick will perform until they do, asshole owner or not.

The Spurs retooled like they always do. We aren't the Spurs.

Face it, I grew up here and have been a a Suns fan for a long time. I will probably support them no matter what. I won't bash Sarver. I will hope he learns as he goes and becomes a good owner. Nobody buys a team so they can drive it into the ground. Rookies make rookie mistakes and learn from them and become veterans.

The glass is half full.

We are in the same vibe here Nodack, let's hope for the best. The pessimist gets less dissapoinments, but the optimist smiles and enjoys more along the way.

Nodack wrote:Winning cures everything. We have some good young pieces and a lot of future draft picks. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. You never know what ping pong balls are going to drop and you never know how a draft pick will perform until they do, asshole owner or not.

The Spurs retooled like they always do. We aren't the Spurs.

Face it, I grew up here and have been a a Suns fan for a long time. I will probably support them no matter what. I won't bash Sarver. I will hope he learns as he goes and becomes a good owner. Nobody buys a team so they can drive it into the ground. Rookies make rookie mistakes and learn from them and become veterans.

The glass is half full.

I appreciate the positive outlook, Nodack. I don't think most of us are positive about waiting a dozen years for an owner to get through his rookie mistakes, though.

And certainly nobody spends that kind of money to drive it into the ground. Just like nobody is the bad guy in their own story. It is all about perspective.

I am sure that at some point in the next 10-20 years, we will be a decent team again. I just am not a fan of a poorly run, poorly staffed, and poorly executed team. And I have a very hard time just sitting back and waiting for something good to happen to celebrate, when I am spending thousands of dollars on the team each year. I have already decided I will not renew my tickets, as I feel that is the only way I have to 'voice' my concerns to the organization.

Indy wrote:

Nodack wrote:Winning cures everything. We have some good young pieces and a lot of future draft picks. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. You never know what ping pong balls are going to drop and you never know how a draft pick will perform until they do, asshole owner or not.

The Spurs retooled like they always do. We aren't the Spurs.

Face it, I grew up here and have been a a Suns fan for a long time. I will probably support them no matter what. I won't bash Sarver. I will hope he learns as he goes and becomes a good owner. Nobody buys a team so they can drive it into the ground. Rookies make rookie mistakes and learn from them and become veterans.

The glass is half full.

I appreciate the positive outlook, Nodack. I don't think most of us are positive about waiting a dozen years for an owner to get through his rookie mistakes, though.

And certainly nobody spends that kind of money to drive it into the ground. Just like nobody is the bad guy in their own story. It is all about perspective.

why is mcdo still getting a lot of pass around here? who refused to pursue gasol's expiring contract with at least a first round pick 2 yrs ago?

I want a Championship team as much as anybody but, I am a realist. We all loved Jerry C. He had how many years at the helm and never won a Championship. Jerry put the team up for sale and Sarver put up the cash. He may not be the smartest NBA owner but, he's there with his foam finger on the sidelines almost every game and you have to cut the guy a little slack. None of us bought the team. He put his money where his mouth was. He has to make his rookie mistakes too.

Things look bleak. You have a right to not show up to games to protest their incompetence Indy. In numbers it will hurt Sarver. Maybe it will force him to be a better owner. Maybe it would force Sarver to make cuts to keep the team afloat or maybe go bankrupt or selling the team again to a new rookie owner. No support also brings up the possibility of moving the team to a state that does support the team. Most of those scenarios were bad ones.

I can't imagine an owner trying to suck. So punishing them for not getting it done is like punishing a kid for spilling his milk. Yell at him and make him go without breakfast. He still has the same chance of spilling his milk the next day and is just going hungry today. It really doesn't make you feel any better and makes the kid feel bad. So what's the point?

Nodack wrote:So punishing them for not getting it done is like punishing a kid for spilling his milk. Yell at him and make him go without breakfast. He still has the same chance of spilling his milk the next day and is just going hungry today. It really doesn't make you feel any better and makes the kid feel bad.

Resisting a proper rebuild for years now does not happen by accident though.

Interesting takes, Nodack. I feel very different. If there are no consequences, there is no incentive to change. If your child spills his milk regularly, you either need to give him/her a cup with a lid, stop giving him milk, or find some other consequence so he/she takes better care when holding their milk. Screaming at them doesn't need to be in the equation at all.

Honestly, Sarver is making 21M in profits this year. In 2012, the team was valued at 395M. Today it is valued at 1B. Clearly he is being rewarded for what he is doing, so there is no incentive to change. Ignoring that he keeps spilling his milk (after a dozen years of trying) doesn't seem like the right approach.

Gambo the other day tried to sell us that Sarver was in charge of the 7SOL teams, therefore he knows how to have successful teams. I feel that if he thinks that, he isn't learning from his mistakes, because he fell into those teams. They were built by Bryan Colangelo and all he did was slowly degrade them over the years when he made money decisions above basketball decisions, starting with not giving Joe Johnson the $5 million that they were apart in contract negotiations before the 2004-2005 season. I just don't feel like he can take credit for those teams. He could have taken credit for it if he didn't F* everyone over and let the basketball experts stay in charge of the basketball.

In2ition wrote:Gambo the other day tried to sell us that Sarver was in charge of the 7SOL teams, therefore he knows how to have successful teams. I feel that if he thinks that, he isn't learning from his mistakes, because he fell into those teams. They were built by Bryan Colangelo and all he did was slowly degrade them over the years when he made money decisions above basketball decisions, starting with not giving Joe Johnson the $5 million that they were apart in contract negotiations before the 2004-2005 season. I just don't feel like he can take credit for those teams. He could have taken credit for it if he didn't F* everyone over and let the basketball experts stay in charge of the basketball.

I have do doubt we would have won a championship if Jerry C had still been in charge. We would have retained JJ for $50M, no doubt. Jerry said in his interview yesterday (and now that I think about it, it was probably aimed at Sarver), that you can try to be profitable or you can try to win. Jerry said he was a competitor and wanted to win. The DBacks were a case in point. Jerry would have won.

Difference is Jerry put his blood, sweat, and tears into the Suns to build it to what it was. Sarver just footed some of the bill and got a new shiny toy.

Superbone wrote:

In2ition wrote:Gambo the other day tried to sell us that Sarver was in charge of the 7SOL teams, therefore he knows how to have successful teams. I feel that if he thinks that, he isn't learning from his mistakes, because he fell into those teams. They were built by Bryan Colangelo and all he did was slowly degrade them over the years when he made money decisions above basketball decisions, starting with not giving Joe Johnson the $5 million that they were apart in contract negotiations before the 2004-2005 season. I just don't feel like he can take credit for those teams. He could have taken credit for it if he didn't F* everyone over and let the basketball experts stay in charge of the basketball.

I have do doubt we would have won a championship if Jerry C had still been in charge. We would have retained JJ for $50M, no doubt. Jerry said in his interview yesterday (and now that I think about it, it was probably aimed at Sarver), that you can try to be profitable or you can try to win. Jerry said he was a competitor and wanted to win. The DBacks were a case in point. Jerry would have won.

I only can easily find the last 10 years of data, but the worst year the Suns have had still was favorable by $13M. The best year was $37.3M. The average is $24.6M.

SDC wrote:i want to vote "just tank", but that will only prolong mcdo's hold on his office.

the problem with choosing "blow it up" is... if you think this team is a laughing stock now, wait till next year.

going according to plan.

the team will try to make the playoffs again next season. #bensimmons

Winning cures everything. We have some good young pieces and a lot of future draft picks.

But do those pieces fit together? Again, I think we have some solid individual talent. The pieces just don't go together. And we also need a coach with a vision.

Gambo the other day tried to sell us that Sarver was in charge of the 7SOL teams

BS. All Sarver did was write a check to become managing partner and enjoy the most successful run in the franchise's history. BC put the plan together, maybe Sarver was on the recruiting trip to get Nash but that was it. BC drafted Shawn, Amar'e, and trade for Joe Johnson. He signed QRich (should've drafted Iguodala or Deng), cleared the cap to sign Nash, picked up Steven Hunter on the cheap.

He signed QRich (should've drafted Iguodala or Deng),

Such a huge, huge move. If we would have drafted Iggy, that money that went to Q would have gone to keep Joe.

Of course it's BS. The team did great despite Sarver. Sarver lucked into a monster team and proceeded to mismanage it. Not cheap, but always penny wise, pound foolish. When you are absolutely the hottest thing in the basketball world you have to pounce and not shy away from the l-tax.

Indy wrote:

He signed QRich (should've drafted Iguodala or Deng),

Such a huge, huge move. If we would have drafted Iggy, that money that went to Q would have gone to keep Joe.

Could have been worse. We were looking at Dampier and Mark Blount. Also Marcus Camby, who would have been amazing here but had big injury concerns at the time.

Iggy+Camby added to Nash and co. Can you imagine? Ginobili was also a target but he took less to stay in SAS and the rest is history.

I don't know if we were looking at Dampier, but I was advocating his signing IF the Clips matched Qs deal. Blount was always a name out there who had a few good seasons. We were linked to Camby a few times but I don't remember us being close on anything.

I still don't understand or have heard an explanation as to why we traded that 7th pick the night before the draft.

ShelC wrote:I don't know if we were looking at Dampier, but I was advocating his signing IF the Clips matched Qs deal. Blount was always a name out there who had a few good seasons. We were linked to Camby a few times but I don't remember us being close on anything.

I still don't understand or have heard an explanation as to why we traded that 7th pick the night before the draft.

It does seem like a very strange time to be trading it.

All I heard is that we didn't expect Igoudala to be there. Dumb.

Suns wanted to maximize their cap space and their guy, Iggy, was assumed to be long gone by #7. Turns out he wasn't, much like Winslow this year.

Almost forgotten, but that summer the Suns also used the #13 (Sean May) to get the Bobcats to take Jahidi white in the expansion draft.