Phx-Suns.Net

TOO wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:59 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:36 pm

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:50 am

LazarusLong wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:43 am

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:44 pm

Been saying this for a while now but Ayton will be marked by inconsistency for a long time, he'll be great for a while and be terrible for a while. What's been disappointing for me is that the trend has been down, not up, this year. Think I am getting close to being done with Monty, though.

Monty is, sort of, Alvin Gentry 2.0, perhaps a better version, having NBA playing experience where Gentry didn't.

He hasn't changed. What worked for awhile was the collaboration between Paul, Booker, Monty and Willy Green.
That was the core of the team's braintrust.
Willie has left, and Paul is slowing down, but still wants considerable input.
I like the guy, but sometimes he seems a bit of a hindrance.

And, recently, of course, Booker has been sidelined.

I haven't been impressed with many of the assistants.
Mark Bryant is a decent sort, but he was a grinder, never a scorer when he played.
After that, I know there's a Mutombo on staff, but not related to Dikembe.
It seems like a collection of anonymous drones...

Hard to disagree on any of this. He definitely needed a strategic lead assistant and hasn't had one for a while. And you're spot on with Chris Paul.

I don't remember Gentry being outcoached this badly on a regular basis. Monty has a basketball soul but not a basketball mind.

This. And if they're sticking with Monty he not only needs a strategic lead assistant, but also a big man assistant who can actually help Ayton's offensive development.

What's some assistant gonna do that Ayton can't do himself? Genuinely curious as to what you think would change.

You don't think having a big man assistant who actually had an offensive game would be helpful at all? I mean sure, if our starting center was Biyombo or Landale then it might make sense to have Mark Bryant. But if you're going to draft a center with the physical potential of DA as your #1 pick, why have Corliss Williamson (who wasn't even a center) and then Mark Bryant as your tutors for him? With that kind of investment, you would think they would invest in somebody who is at least capable of teaching him some more offensive skills.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:25 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:59 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:36 pm

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:50 am

LazarusLong wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:43 am

Monty is, sort of, Alvin Gentry 2.0, perhaps a better version, having NBA playing experience where Gentry didn't.

He hasn't changed. What worked for awhile was the collaboration between Paul, Booker, Monty and Willy Green.
That was the core of the team's braintrust.
Willie has left, and Paul is slowing down, but still wants considerable input.
I like the guy, but sometimes he seems a bit of a hindrance.

And, recently, of course, Booker has been sidelined.

I haven't been impressed with many of the assistants.
Mark Bryant is a decent sort, but he was a grinder, never a scorer when he played.
After that, I know there's a Mutombo on staff, but not related to Dikembe.
It seems like a collection of anonymous drones...

Hard to disagree on any of this. He definitely needed a strategic lead assistant and hasn't had one for a while. And you're spot on with Chris Paul.

I don't remember Gentry being outcoached this badly on a regular basis. Monty has a basketball soul but not a basketball mind.

This. And if they're sticking with Monty he not only needs a strategic lead assistant, but also a big man assistant who can actually help Ayton's offensive development.

What's some assistant gonna do that Ayton can't do himself? Genuinely curious as to what you think would change.

You don't think having a big man assistant who actually had an offensive game would be helpful at all? I mean sure, if our starting center was Biyombo or Landale then it might make sense to have Mark Bryant. But if you're going to draft a center with the physical potential of DA as your #1 pick, why have Corliss Williamson (who wasn't even a center) and then Mark Bryant as your tutors for him? With that kind of investment, you would think they would invest in somebody who is at least capable of teaching him some more offensive skills.

Being a good player has little to do with being a good coach. Different skills. Some of the best NBA players ever made atrocious coaches.

Dribbling is really the only basketball skill Ayton is deficient in. Passing, positioning, focus, effort...that stuff is all mental.

No shit, Chris. Just like the rest of the league.

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:42 pm

Criticizing assistant coaches has always been weird to me. None of us have any idea what they do or don’t contribute. They’re convenient low hanging fruit to whom you can attribute team (or player) issues.

That's true. But in the absence of hard evidence of the assistant's day-to-day behavior, we can still look at the results in the areas those coaches are supposed to be working on. For example, if Mark Bryant is our big man coach, and our big men aren't playing well, we can to some degree criticize Mark Bryant for that.

It does seem like Willie Green helped Monty with some of the in-depth strategies and game plans. Something has been a bit off since he left. I wish we had a good lead assistant like that again. I don't expect Monty to be a perfect coach capable of handling every aspect of the job. He's very good at some aspects, like player-coach relations, keeping players motivated and bought into their role, "next man up" mentality, just keeping the team going through the grind of the season. And he's a good man who leads calmly and without yelling at the players and constantly being on their ass and burning them out. I like his leadership and character a lot. There's a reason why so many players who have been on teams with him want to be coached by him again. He does seem like he needs an assistant or two in his ear to help him with in-game adjustments, like when we're getting rolled early in the game and need a timeout or lineup change.

I was super jealous when I heard that OKC snatched up Chip Engelland from San Antonio. He's a legendary shooting coach. That's a great investment for their future.

Seems like Jarrett Jack has been an underwhelming hire, but like 'bazz said, we don't know what's going on inside the Suns facilities.

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:30 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:25 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:59 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:36 pm

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:50 am

Hard to disagree on any of this. He definitely needed a strategic lead assistant and hasn't had one for a while. And you're spot on with Chris Paul.

I don't remember Gentry being outcoached this badly on a regular basis. Monty has a basketball soul but not a basketball mind.

This. And if they're sticking with Monty he not only needs a strategic lead assistant, but also a big man assistant who can actually help Ayton's offensive development.

What's some assistant gonna do that Ayton can't do himself? Genuinely curious as to what you think would change.

You don't think having a big man assistant who actually had an offensive game would be helpful at all? I mean sure, if our starting center was Biyombo or Landale then it might make sense to have Mark Bryant. But if you're going to draft a center with the physical potential of DA as your #1 pick, why have Corliss Williamson (who wasn't even a center) and then Mark Bryant as your tutors for him? With that kind of investment, you would think they would invest in somebody who is at least capable of teaching him some more offensive skills.

Being a good player has little to do with being a good coach. Different skills. Some of the best NBA players ever made atrocious coaches.

And some of the worst players were great coaches. Didn't even make it to the college level let alone NBA.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:32 pm

Dribbling is really the only basketball skill Ayton is deficient in. Passing, positioning, focus, effort...that stuff is all mental.

You need to know proper positioning to be good at it. Yeah, it's mental but it's also a skill that I don't see Ayton practicing. Instead he relies on his natural athletism.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:46 pm

Seems like Jarrett Jack has been an underwhelming hire, but like 'bazz said, we don't know what's going on inside the Suns facilities.

Why? What do you know about his contributions?

Yeah, that's in the effort bucket. The point I was trying to make was that a different big man coach wouldn't have lead Ayton to become a significantly better player at this point. He can only be as great as he wants to be.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:37 pm

Face it. We'll do nothing and we'll like it. Well, not the last part.

OK, we know the Crowder trade will happen but I'll honestly be surprised if we make any other moves before the deadline. Although, we don't know what Ishbia is capable of.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:16 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:46 pm

Seems like Jarrett Jack has been an underwhelming hire, but like 'bazz said, we don't know what's going on inside the Suns facilities.

Why? What do you know about his contributions?

Nothing. But usually we hear the rest of the league talk about new assistants who're doing well when they come into town.

Remember all the great stuff we kept hearing about Willie Green during that season?

I remember our head assistant Kevin Young getting head coaching interviews this pass summer, so that good sign imo.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:46 pm

I remember our head assistant Kevin Young getting head coaching interviews this pass summer, so that good sign imo.

I was going to say, I've seen a fair amount of Kevin Young talk over the last couple years.

Sometimes that's just teams doing favors for each other to give coaches a chance to sell themselves in an interview. The ones who really have it in them to be good head coaches typically don't go through that process, they're poached ASAP.

Assuming this is a troll, but man I’ve gotten my hopes up again

John Rocha is a film guy. Used to do work for Collider. Does a few podcast discussing movies and pop culture. Good friends with bunch of film trade reporters. Might believe him if it was something to do in the film industry, not sure here about the NBA lol


I’m all in on KD conspiracies tho. Don’t look to me for rational thought in the upcoming days. I know one does anyways but really don’t until after Thursday lol.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:21 am

I’m also just terrified of getting stuck with Ayton and the trajectory he’s on. I think he’s done here and his play shows it…his value is only going down and I think we need to strike while he still has value.

And that's fine. Ayton can be moved without surrendering all of our picks for non-stars.

Here we go again