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3rdside wrote:

3rdside wrote:

Split T wrote:Wingspan is definitely helpful, but it's not going to keep Jackson from being a good defender. Jackson isn't going to the combine, so we might not get any new measurements, but his pre college measurements were 6'8 with shoes and a 6'10 wingspan. Other comparable players:

Jimmy Butler 6'8/6'8
Gordon Hayward 6'8/6'8
Andre Iguodala 6'7/6'11
Paul George 6'9/6'11
Shane Battier 6'9/6'10
Joe Johnson 6'8/6'9

Most of those guys are really good defenders.

NBA Defensive Team Appearances:

- Jimmy Butler - 2nd team x 3
- Gordon Hayward - N/A
- Andre Iguodala - 1st team x 1, 2nd team x 1
- Paul George - 1st team x 1, 2nd team x 2
- Shane Battier - 2nd team x 2
- Joe Johnson - N/A

So agreed on Jackson. Iguodala, on the basis of your measurements, probably qualifies as having excess wing span, leaving George as the only 1st teamer, so they're mainly very good, rather than great, defenders.


Looking at the DPOY list below, Joakim Noah is 6'11" and has a span of 7'1" so either the 'abnormal excess wing span over height' theory doesn't work, or there's extra parts to it:

1. The taller you get, the narrower your shoulders become i.e. there is a correlation between the two. Therefore as a taller player, you're likely to be in the paint where your priority is blocking and deterring shots and it's your standing reach that helps with this. Shoulder width has no impact on standing reach but it does on wing span. As such, it seems you can be an elite defender with only a moderate excess of wing span over height but it's very likely you're going to be a tall, paint player.

Paul George is a bit of an outlier.

2. As the players get shorter, the excess wing span over height becomes greater as you're now adding increased shoulder width on top of long arms. Therefore to be an elite, shorter, defender (Artest, Leonard, Pippen etc), the longer your wing span will be relative to guys your size as steals, defensive deflections and smothering become your priority, and wingspan - sideways reach - helps with this. This supports the theory.

Ben Wallace in the list below is just a sick beast.

2001–02 Ben Wallace 6'7" / 7'2"
2002–03 Ben Wallace 
2003–04 Ron Artest 6'7" / 7'2"
2004–05 Ben Wallace 
2005–06 Ben Wallace 
2006–07 Marcus Camby 6'11 / 7'4"
2007–08 Kevin Garnett 6'11" / 7'4"
2008–09 Dwight Howard 6'11" / 7'4"
2009–10 Dwight Howard
2010–11 Dwight Howard
2011–12 Tyson Chandler 6'11" / 7'2"
2012–13 Marc Gasol 7'1" / 7'4"
2013–14 Joakim Noah 6'11" / 7'1"
2014–15 Kawhi Leonard - 6'7" / 7'3"
2015–16 Kawhi Leonard

Don't mind me but a late addition to the above .... I forgot to mention how much hand size is important in all of this, kawhi has massssive hands. I'd say he gets at least 1 inch of extra wing span over guys his size because of them, in some (most?) cases probably an inch and a half.

And if you haven't googled the greek freak's hands already I'd suggest doing that.

3rdside wrote:http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Jackson-7239/

GD draft express...you're right, read a bit further and it's 8'9 3/4".

Split T wrote:

3rdside wrote:http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Jackson-7239/

GD draft express...you're right, read a bit further and it's 8'9 3/4".

Ya, his most recent measurement was 8'3 so they list that. How do we get such drastically different measurements? There was another guy, I can't remember who, but we were checking his wingspan and it jumped all over the place as well.

Split T wrote:Don't put too much trust in that 8'3 number. I guarantee it's wrong. I'm 6'4 with a 6'4 wingspan and my standing reach is about 8'3. Jackson is 6'8 with a 6'10 wingspan.

ShelC wrote:I get the whole wingspan thing, but let's not get caught up in measurements. We need basketball players.

O_Gardino wrote:at #4, you hope to get a guy with both the physical and mental talents.

Indy wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:at #4, you hope to get a guy with both the physical and mental talents.

Sure, I guess. But at what number do you say you get one or the other? Or only some of each? I don't buy into the concept that you can take a guy too high. If we have a draft board that puts some dude at #4 for us, and he is still there at #4, we should take him. That is true even if other boards don't have him above #8. Avoid the group think and do what is best for you.

Indy wrote:

ShelC wrote:I get the whole wingspan thing, but let's not get caught up in measurements. We need basketball players.

I would rather have a player with a 6-10 wing span that knows where to be instinctively, than one with a 7-2 wingspan that doesn't.

3rdside wrote:

Indy wrote:

ShelC wrote:I get the whole wingspan thing, but let's not get caught up in measurements. We need basketball players.

I would rather have a player with a 6-10 wing span that knows where to be instinctively, than one with a 7-2 wingspan that doesn't.

Kawhi and the Greek Freak may have been guys you looked at their measurements (along with everything else) and thought....there could be something here. Maybe it's just a hindsight thing.

Looking at the below list of All NBA forwards + PG , Length matters (and no I haven't got the lengths of all starting forwards in the NBA but that would be good to get - and I just know I'm going to go get them at some point..Goddammit ).

Tatum is solid length but in the bottom half somewhere whereas Jackson is longer than only Butler.

Flipping it around, Butler proves it's not always about length but I think it's a safe bet to say if you aren't long you aren't going to be the best.


Antekounmpo - 6'11" / 7'3" / 9'3"

Durant - 6'9" / 7'4" / 9'0.5"

LeBron - 6'8" / 7'0" / 8'10.75"

Leonard - 6'7" / 7'2" / 8'10"

George - 6'8"/ 6'11"/ 8'11"

Green - 6'7" / 7'1" / 8'10"

Butler - 6'8" / 6'8" / 8'6"

Isaac - 6'11" / 7'1" / 9'0"

Tatum - 6'8"/ 6'11"/ 8'10.5"

Jackson - 6'8"/ 6'10"/ 8'9.75"

In2ition wrote:#9 seems to have a better history, imo.

Superbone wrote:

In2ition wrote:#9 seems to have a better history, imo.

So, pick #9 at 4. Voila!