POLL: Grade the Suns' draft overall

[Ring_Wanted]

I wouldn't have passed on Jackson but I truly wanted Anigbogu at #32. Besides him, there were other guys who made more noise at the second round, like Ojeleye and Bell. Would have considered Hartenstein too.

Still, I am really warming to Reed.

Know nothing about Peters.

A-/B+, perhaps, because I agree with you analysis on our needs and the team has added pieces to improve on those areas, instead of adding to logjams or reaching with the #4.

[Superbone]

From the AZCentral draft grades article, this guy thinks we're looking at about a 30 win season this year.

SI.com: A

Andrew Sharp writes: "I love the Suns' young core, and Josh Jackson is the perfect addition. Granted, I spent most of this week worried that Ryan McDonough would make an impulsive move to flip No. 4 for someone like LaMarcus Aldridge, but that doesn't matter anymore. They were also flirting with Porzingis for the past 48 hours, but that's not important. What's important is that we made it. Devin Booker and Eric Bledsoe can do the scoring and Josh Jackson can maul people. The Suns are too young to win more than 30–ish games next year, but a) this is a wonderful nucleus for the next five years, and b) those 30 wins will be awesome."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/h ... 423129001/

[JustWinBaby]

From the AZCentral draft grades article, this guy thinks we're looking at about a 30 win season this year.

SI.com: A

Andrew Sharp writes: "I love the Suns' young core, and Josh Jackson is the perfect addition. Granted, I spent most of this week worried that Ryan McDonough would make an impulsive move to flip No. 4 for someone like LaMarcus Aldridge, but that doesn't matter anymore. They were also flirting with Porzingis for the past 48 hours, but that's not important. What's important is that we made it. Devin Booker and Eric Bledsoe can do the scoring and Josh Jackson can maul people. The Suns are too young to win more than 30–ish games next year, but a) this is a wonderful nucleus for the next five years, and b) those 30 wins will be awesome."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/h ... 423129001/

I have no idea on how many wins we get but 30 would be my minimum expected. Some of key pieces are very young but they no longer are rookies and I expect Jackson to contribute immediately. I am hoping for improvement from Bender and seeing Booker being even better. I also think Chriss will be a major factor. The minutes Watson gave to him this year was probably the best thing he did this year.

If we are smart enough to dump some of the riff raff (Knight, Dudley, LB & Len) and are able to grab Griffin - Katie bar the door. The good old days could be back sooner than later.

I am holding out hopes that Knight has a bounce back year, because I doubt we can get rid of him. I have no way to back up my optimism but, he does have talent, I think.

[Cap]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-d ... -with-a-d/

Phoenix Suns: A-

Picks: Josh Jackson (4), Davon Reed (32), Alec Peters (54)

The Suns might have benefited more in the short term from a polished wing scorer like Jayson Tatum, but Jackson could end up being a better NBA player given his two-way ability. To get a talent like Jackson at No. 4 (possibly aided by Jackson's decision not to work out for the Celtics) is a huge win for the Suns, and he'll likely slide right into the starting lineup alongside fellow franchise player Devin Booker. At 6-7 Jackson will immediately be able to defend perimeter scorers -- Phoenix was 28th in the league in defensive rating last season -- and his offensive game is passable enough to get him by while he develops his 3-point shooting. Reed is a potential 3-and-D guy who shot 40 percent from behind the arc at Miami. Peters might not make the team, but he's a four-year guy who performed at a high level in college and could give the Suns some front-court depth.

[bajanguy008]

I haven't even thought about win totals yet, I just want to see the Summer Suns and the other offseason transactions. Any word on how far along Ulis is in his recovery ?

[INFORMER]

The Suns might have benefited more in the short term from a polished wing scorer like Jayson Tatum

I don't think that is even close to being true.

[Superbone]

I am holding out hopes that Knight has a bounce back year, because I doubt we can get rid of him. I have no way to back up my optimism but, he does have talent, I think.

I hope you're right too! He does have talent but he just hasn't figured out how to put it all together. It would be great if it happened.

[JustWinBaby]

The Suns might have benefited more in the short term from a polished wing scorer like Jayson Tatum

I don't think that is even close to being true.

Would you really have taken Nitlilikina, Collins or Ojeleye rather than Jackson in the first round?

I read your concerns about potential character issues and the type of players Self has went after at Kansas. I really do not remember the last Kansas player to become really great either. I really like the interviews that Jackson did yesterday. He seems to be literate with a really good head on his shoulders. He probably is going to need guidance and it appears the Suns know it. It really appears that his game, if it comes as advertised is just what the doctor ordered.

Just curious

[Cap]

The Suns might have benefited more in the short term from a polished wing scorer like Jayson Tatum

I don't think that is even close to being true.

Would you really have taken Nitlilikina, Collins or Ojeleye rather than Jackson in the first round?

I read your concerns about potential character issues and the type of players Self has went after at Kansas. I really do not remember the last Kansas player to become really great either.

Paul Pierce?

Which young Jayhawk would you want right now: Embiid, Wiggins, or Jackson?

[JustWinBaby]

The Suns might have benefited more in the short term from a polished wing scorer like Jayson Tatum

I don't think that is even close to being true.

Would you really have taken Nitlilikina, Collins or Ojeleye rather than Jackson in the first round?

I read your concerns about potential character issues and the type of players Self has went after at Kansas. I really do not remember the last Kansas player to become really great either.

Paul Pierce?

Which young Jayhawk would you want right now: Embiid, Wiggins, or Jackson?

Yeah, Danny Manning and Wilt as well but I know those were prior to Self becoming head coach. I am sure Pierce was as well. I love Embiid and think he could become one of the best players in the league if he can stay healthy. I like Wiggins as well but something is just not right in Minnesota, I really expected them to make the playoffs this past season.

To answer your question I would take Jackson at this point. Who knows which one will turn out to be the best 5 years from now. I would not mind having all three on our roster. However, I think INFO's questions are warranted. Kansas seems to be ranked very high every real and lay a turd in the NCAA tournament.

[3rdside]

If you think we stole a top 3 pick, potentially a number 1 pick in some circles, that I would very easily have taken at #2, via some shifty shenanigans from McD selling Jackson a don't-workout-with-Boston story, that's worth at least an extra grade.

And the more I read about Porzingis the more i read about the inevitability of him breaking down physically at some point so a non-trade there is fine with me.

It's a nailed on A and could be higher depending on what happens with Reed and Peters.

[ShelC]

Show me the articles about Porzingis breaking down and I'll show you a hit job by Phil and the Knicks' PR team.

[3rdside]

Show me the articles about Porzingis breaking down and I'll show you a hit job by Phil and the Knicks' PR team.

Good, tall guys' (> 7'1") durability:

Shawn Bradley - 7 full (ish - >70 games) seasons out of 16 - 7'6"
Yao Ming - 3 full seasons out of 9 - 7'5"
Rik SMits - 9 full (ish) seasons out of 12 - 7'4"
Ralph Sampson - 3 full seasons out of 11 - 7'4"
Artis Gilmore - 15 full (ish) seasons out of 19 but weirdly peaked in his rookie season (PER) and declined steadily from there - 7'2"
Dikembe Mutombo - 12 full seasons out of 21 - 7'2"
Kareem the Dream - 19 out of 20 full seasons - 7'2"

So 4 out of 7 had a full career only (>15 seasons), and only 2 of them were not substantially injured during it and neither of them were white.

Smits, who is white, wasn't injured (that much..) but 12 seasons might be considered not full.

David Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq, Ewing, Gasol, Nowitzki are greats but arguably in a different height category.

I'm with you in principle that Zinger looks more solid that the other broken down tallies but the longevity stats aren't really in his favour.

[ShelC]

But you said you had read about the inevitability of Porzingis breaking down, just curious as to where you read that.

And the reasoning that a full career is more than 15 seasons is completely subjective. Guys are having longer careers now because of training, treatment, diet, etc so they're playing longer. Most of the guys you listed played 3-4 years of college, came into the league at 22 and were usually productive until around 33-34. Mutombo came into the league at 25, and actually played 17 seasons. Over his first 15 seasons, he averaged 76 games.

[3rdside]

But you said you had read about the inevitability of Porzingis breaking down, just curious as to where you read that.

And the reasoning that a full career is more than 15 seasons is completely subjective. Guys are having longer careers now because of training, treatment, diet, etc so they're playing longer. Most of the guys you listed played 3-4 years of college, came into the league at 22 and were usually productive until around 33-34. Mutombo came into the league at 25, and actually played 17 seasons. Over his first 15 seasons, he averaged 76 games.

Inevitable is my choice of word to be fair; not one tall white guy has played more than 9 full seasons..And Mutombo - I read the split season (Atl/Phil - 01/02) as separate seasons so his stats should read:

18 seasons played of which 5 or so weren't full and in the first 15 seasons only 2 weren't complete and 1 was nearly full(ish) with 65 games.

A lot of subjectivity in my post based on the collective of the other tall guys there.

[Mori Chu]

Porzingis's health is fine. It's a big stretch to say that he'll break down just because he is tall. I see your list conveniently excludes lots of other tall (white?) big men, like Nowitzki, Brad Miller, whomever. Seems cherry-picked to me.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Porzingis's health is fine. It's a big stretch to say that he'll break down just because he is tall. I see your list conveniently excludes lots of other tall (white?) big men, like Nowitzki, Brad Miller, whomever. Seems cherry-picked to me.

THIS

But hey, if somebody feels happy adapting reality to his thinking, who are we to pop his bubble? Some even get to be presidents...
(Sadly, all over the world)

[Superbone]

We'll discuss that subject again in 10 years. Speaking of which, where has Laz been?

[3rdside]

Well I did mention nowitzki already - I put him in the tall but not freaky tall category, along with the other <7'2" ers; why I chose that height is purely subjective as I've said, but there seems to be a bunch of players at 7'1" and not much beyond that so there's possibly something to that. Possibly not.

Anyway, here's my reference point:




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[INFORMER]

The Suns might have benefited more in the short term from a polished wing scorer like Jayson Tatum

I don't think that is even close to being true.

Would you really have taken Nitlilikina, Collins or Ojeleye rather than Jackson in the first round?

No, those were just the guys wanted out of the 1st round, regardless of the drafting position. I wouldn't have had Jackson on my board. And yes, I would have drafted Ntilikina at 4. I wanted to acquire another lotto pick to draft Collins, and move up from 32 to select Semi (which turned out to be unnecessary).