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Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:44 pm
by ShelC
Maybe a guy like Okogie will have more value now for his defense.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:59 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Shabazz wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:38 pm
If Vogel is a defensive wizard, we need to get him offensive players, not defenders.
They just need smart players who go hard. Offense or defense, it doesn't matter.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:08 pm
by Superbone
ShelC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:44 pm
Maybe a guy like Okogie will have more value now for his defense.
I was thinking the same thing.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:56 pm
by Split T
Needs to make shots though. He froze up in the playoffs when his shots weren’t falling
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:46 pm
by Mori Chu
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:06 pm
Let’s assume for a bit that Vogel can get Ayton to be 2021 playoffs Ayton again. So we’d be:
Pg: CP3, Payne
Sg: Booker, Shamet
Sf:
Pf: KD, Ish
C: Ayton
We’d then only have the TPMLE and vet min exception to add free agents.
Torrey Craig and Jock Landale are the only players of concern that we have full bird rights on. We can try to trade Shamet(looking at Detroit now that Monty is there), but not sure what we’d get.
I just don’t know how we fill out the roster if we don’t move one of Ayton or CP3 and I just don’t think CP3 gets us anything. But I guess if we nail the TPMLE and get a few title chasers at the vet min, we could do it. Bring back Jock and Josh:
Pg: CP3, Payne, vet min
Sg: Booker, Shamet, vet min
Sf: TPMLE, Okogie, vet min
Pf: KD, Craig, Ish
C: Ayton, Jock, vet min
I don’t think I’d feel great about that team.
Good post. Basically if you keep Ayton and CP3, the only hope you have of a solid roster is to nail your TPMLE on a small forward. Who would that be?
I'm also open to the idea that Vogel could get more out of some of our existing guys than Monty did. Maybe Okogie really blossoms under Vogel, for example. Or Craig. I don't mind guys like Payne, Okogie, Craig, Jock being in our rotation so long as they're coming off the bench and not depended on as starters. Maybe this is a rough roster breakdown:
Pg: CP3, Payne, vet min
Sg: Booker, Okogie, vet min
Sf: TPMLE, Craig, vet min
Pf: KD, Ish
C: Ayton, Jock, vet min
Main concern there would be Ish behind KD. Would want a stronger backup PF. And probably need another PG to weather the inevitable CP3 injury.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:28 am
by specialsauce
Our rotation outside Book and KD is trash and needs revamping period. God is not getting more out of these guys, let alone Frank Vogel.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:36 am
by Flagrant Fowl
IDK, I’ve played against some Mormons who definitely had divine intervention on their side.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:38 am
by SunsRIt
Great, now we get another season of maybe Ayton will unlock and become what he can be because of this. We will always be left wondering with this guy.
I do like the hire though.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:59 am
by Flagrant Fowl
After a day of contemplation, I think the odds are in favor of Kevin Young joining Monty in Detroit.
I have a feeling Vogel wants his own people and the impression I’m getting is that Ishbia has more to do with this hire than Jones.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:45 am
by SunsSince92
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:46 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:06 pm
Let’s assume for a bit that Vogel can get Ayton to be 2021 playoffs Ayton again. So we’d be:
Pg: CP3, Payne
Sg: Booker, Shamet
Sf:
Pf: KD, Ish
C: Ayton
We’d then only have the TPMLE and vet min exception to add free agents.
Torrey Craig and Jock Landale are the only players of concern that we have full bird rights on. We can try to trade Shamet(looking at Detroit now that Monty is there), but not sure what we’d get.
I just don’t know how we fill out the roster if we don’t move one of Ayton or CP3 and I just don’t think CP3 gets us anything. But I guess if we nail the TPMLE and get a few title chasers at the vet min, we could do it. Bring back Jock and Josh:
Pg: CP3, Payne, vet min
Sg: Booker, Shamet, vet min
Sf: TPMLE, Okogie, vet min
Pf: KD, Craig, Ish
C: Ayton, Jock, vet min
I don’t think I’d feel great about that team.
Good post. Basically if you keep Ayton and CP3, the only hope you have of a solid roster is to nail your TPMLE on a small forward. Who would that be?
I'm also open to the idea that Vogel could get more out of some of our existing guys than Monty did. Maybe Okogie really blossoms under Vogel, for example. Or Craig. I don't mind guys like Payne, Okogie, Craig, Jock being in our rotation so long as they're coming off the bench and not depended on as starters. Maybe this is a rough roster breakdown:
Pg: CP3, Payne, vet min
Sg: Booker, Okogie, vet min
Sf: TPMLE, Craig, vet min
Pf: KD, Ish
C: Ayton, Jock, vet min
Main concern there would be Ish behind KD. Would want a stronger backup PF. And probably need another PG to weather the inevitable CP3 injury.
I'm fine with Craig OR Okogie but I don't see the sense in keeping them both as they are broadly the same player. If I had to pick I'd go with Okogie on the basis that he's younger and still has a chance to develop. Craig is what he is at this point in his career.
I'm more than ready to move on from Payne too. I've never really rated the guy as a legit backup PG and he's done nothing over the past two seasons to convince me otherwise.
I'd keep Ish as a 12th man but wouldn't want him anywhere near the rotation unless we'd lost some guys to injury.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:52 am
by Split T
I’m fine with Payne…I just don’t know that we’re getting a replacement with the money we have.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:00 am
by SunsSince92
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:52 am
I’m fine with Payne…I just don’t know that we’re getting a replacement with the money we have.
That's fair. If there were an opportunity to replace him I'd definitely be open to it, but we might not have that luxury as you say.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:05 am
by Split T
I think we do need to add more options. I like guys like Seth Curry or Shake Milton. Neither are true pg’s, but they can do some pg stuff, especially if we have Book or KD out there.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:09 am
by Superbone
SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:00 am
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:52 am
I’m fine with Payne…I just don’t know that we’re getting a replacement with the money we have.
That's fair. If there were an opportunity to replace him I'd definitely be open to it, but we might not have that luxury as you say.
He was great in the bubble and the Finals year and then he's fallen off and been injury prone. I just looked up his age and he's 28 which is a player's prime. I could go either way. Hope he becomes sturdier but he may be going in the other direction.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:05 pm
by carey
I've been so busy I hadn't even seen we hired a new coach until I checked the board a little while ago. Not inspired with this hire. I'm sure he's capable but worried he's not much of an innovator. I guess we'll find out. Interesting he costs about half of what Monty Williams cost Detroit. Not sure why the pivot away from Kevin Young at the last minute. I hope he stays on staff if he's Booker's guy.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:15 pm
by TOO
I'm excited for a different strategy, hoping Vogel can get full defensive buy in and we can score enough to contend. Interested to see how the roster looks after the draft/FA.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:48 pm
by Split T
Young is staying
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:49 pm
by TOO
I can't say I know exactly what Young brings to the table, but making him the highest paid non HC is pretty interesting.
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:59 pm
by Split T
Gotta think if the suns do well next year he’s gonna be gone. Someone is gonna give him a head coaching job soon
Re: Frank Vogel hired as new Coach
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:28 pm
by Superbone
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:48 pm
Young is staying
NICE!