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Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:02 pm
by Mori Chu
The way I like to look at it is, Len is very young and has played less than half of a real season of NBA ball, and already he is a capable ("average") starting center. That is pretty impressive. And while it's true that he can't quite hang with Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph yet, there are hardly any bigs in the whole league who can, so that isn't much of a knock on him. He has improved so much in just a few dozen games. Can't you see how much and how quickly he is getting better? Why be pessimistic about such a promising young player? He may never become an All-NBA center but he has a lot of promise and I don't know what his ceiling as a player will be yet.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:24 pm
by ShelC
Len needs to get stronger and lower his base. But he's a legit big. It's crazy how there's such a difference when you have a true 7 footer out there. Miles is a big dude, but Len's height and length are just different.
Watching the Knicks game, he couldn't get his hands on a lot of rebounds. Something he'll need to work on, even if it just means tipping it and keeping the ball alive for his teammates. He should spend the offseason watching Tyson Chandler and Joakim Noah in that regard. You can tell the game is still a bit fast for him too, but that'll come with more PT.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:05 pm
by JCSunsfan
da_suns_fan wrote:54 Bigs who have more "wins produced" than Alex Len. Name me another who wasnt in the top 50 at his position then went on to be a "marquee player".
Davis, Anthony
Chandler, Tyson
Jordan, DeAndre
Duncan, Tim
Patterson, Patrick
Randolph, Zach
Gasol, Pau
Love, Kevin
Allen, Lavoy
Thompson, Tristan
Favors, Derrick
Millsap, Paul
Gobert, Rudy
Dieng, Gorgui
Davis, Ed
Green, Draymond
Valanciunas, Jonas
Aldridge, LaMarcus
Drummond, Andre
Stoudemire, Amare
Asik, Omer
Johnson, Amir
Gibson, Taj
Bogut, Andrew
Zeller, Tyler
Gasol, Marc
Ibaka, Serge
Monroe, Greg
Faried, Kenneth
Gortat, Marcin
Cousins, DeMarcus
Griffin, Blake
Scola, Luis
Vucevic, Nikola
Mozgov, Timofey
Sullinger, Jared
Noah, Joakim
Howard, Dwight
Williams, Shawne
Adams, Steven
Biyombo, Bismack
Lopez, Robin
Black, Tarik
Morris, Markieff
Plumlee, Mason
Garnett, Kevin
Zeller, Cody
Horford, Al
Evans, Reggie
Varejao, Anderson
Diaw, Boris
Nowitzki, Dirk
Sims, Henry
Plumlee, Miles
Really? Virtual rookie? About everyone on that list was at that level at some point. Hard to take this point seriously. Must be sarcastic.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:52 pm
by The Bobster
How many of those guys had two ankle surgeries before their rookie season?
Shit, if you watch the game you can see he's made huge improvements over last year, and I suspect that with more playing time we'll see that continue.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:56 pm
by TOO
There is no arguing with someone who is convinced they are right, just pissin in the wind.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:00 pm
by da_suns_fan
JCSunsfan wrote:da_suns_fan wrote:54 Bigs who have more "wins produced" than Alex Len. Name me another who wasnt in the top 50 at his position then went on to be a "marquee player".
Davis, Anthony
Chandler, Tyson
Jordan, DeAndre
Duncan, Tim
Patterson, Patrick
Randolph, Zach
Gasol, Pau
Love, Kevin
Allen, Lavoy
Thompson, Tristan
Favors, Derrick
Millsap, Paul
Gobert, Rudy
Dieng, Gorgui
Davis, Ed
Green, Draymond
Valanciunas, Jonas
Aldridge, LaMarcus
Drummond, Andre
Stoudemire, Amare
Asik, Omer
Johnson, Amir
Gibson, Taj
Bogut, Andrew
Zeller, Tyler
Gasol, Marc
Ibaka, Serge
Monroe, Greg
Faried, Kenneth
Gortat, Marcin
Cousins, DeMarcus
Griffin, Blake
Scola, Luis
Vucevic, Nikola
Mozgov, Timofey
Sullinger, Jared
Noah, Joakim
Howard, Dwight
Williams, Shawne
Adams, Steven
Biyombo, Bismack
Lopez, Robin
Black, Tarik
Morris, Markieff
Plumlee, Mason
Garnett, Kevin
Zeller, Cody
Horford, Al
Evans, Reggie
Varejao, Anderson
Diaw, Boris
Nowitzki, Dirk
Sims, Henry
Plumlee, Miles
Really? Virtual rookie? About everyone on that list was at that level at some point. Hard to take this point seriously. Must be sarcastic.
Pick a "marquee" player from that list. Ill show you his stats at age 21.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:07 pm
by da_suns_fan
TheOriginalOriginal wrote:There is no arguing with someone who is convinced they are right, just pissin in the wind.
I agree.
Of course I remember making same argument about Jimmer Fredette and was basically crucified on the old board.
Look, I like Len. Hes a good player. Easy to cheer for. But I dont consider him some some sort of cornerstone.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:14 pm
by da_suns_fan
Also, if we want to trade for a franchise player, theyre gonna want young players like Len.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:21 pm
by Ring_Wanted
Show me a franchise player and Len is yours.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:31 pm
by Cap
Len isn't going to be the next Shaquille O'Neal or David Robinson, but he doesn't have to be an all-time great, or even an All-Star, to be the best true center the franchise has ever had. Even if his ceiling is top-10 center, I'd hate to give him up.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:39 pm
by Nodack
Len was drafted to be our future Center, but was injured his rookie season. Now he is healthy and the Suns are 4/0 since he has started. I would call the Suns idiots if they traded him now.
Plumlee on the other hand....
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:42 pm
by INFORMER
Ring_Wanted wrote:da_suns_fan wrote:Any chance Miami makes Bosh available? Theyre below 500 in the East and Im not sure what theyre plan is.
Id gladly send Bledsoe, Green and Len their way.
Thoughts?
All I can think about is that he makes $27M in 2018-19.
And that should end the conversation.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:43 pm
by INFORMER
da_suns_fan wrote:Any chance Miami makes Bosh available? Theyre below 500 in the East and Im not sure what theyre plan is.
Id gladly send Bledsoe, Green and Len their way.
Thoughts?
Including Len in that deal us counterproductive. You need to pair Bosh with someone like Len, someone who will rebound and defend the rim.
That deal is a non-starter.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:47 pm
by Nodack
Tolliver money + Plumlee for a second productive center. That would be my Suns move.
I know, I broke my own no trade talk rules.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:52 pm
by Split T
da_suns_fan wrote:JCSunsfan wrote:da_suns_fan wrote:54 Bigs who have more "wins produced" than Alex Len. Name me another who wasnt in the top 50 at his position then went on to be a "marquee player".
Davis, Anthony
Chandler, Tyson
Jordan, DeAndre
Duncan, Tim
Patterson, Patrick
Randolph, Zach
Gasol, Pau
Love, Kevin
Allen, Lavoy
Thompson, Tristan
Favors, Derrick
Millsap, Paul
Gobert, Rudy
Dieng, Gorgui
Davis, Ed
Green, Draymond
Valanciunas, Jonas
Aldridge, LaMarcus
Drummond, Andre
Stoudemire, Amare
Asik, Omer
Johnson, Amir
Gibson, Taj
Bogut, Andrew
Zeller, Tyler
Gasol, Marc
Ibaka, Serge
Monroe, Greg
Faried, Kenneth
Gortat, Marcin
Cousins, DeMarcus
Griffin, Blake
Scola, Luis
Vucevic, Nikola
Mozgov, Timofey
Sullinger, Jared
Noah, Joakim
Howard, Dwight
Williams, Shawne
Adams, Steven
Biyombo, Bismack
Lopez, Robin
Black, Tarik
Morris, Markieff
Plumlee, Mason
Garnett, Kevin
Zeller, Cody
Horford, Al
Evans, Reggie
Varejao, Anderson
Diaw, Boris
Nowitzki, Dirk
Sims, Henry
Plumlee, Miles
Really? Virtual rookie? About everyone on that list was at that level at some point. Hard to take this point seriously. Must be sarcastic.
Pick a "marquee" player from that list. Ill show you his stats at age 21.
Tyson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bogut, Roy Hibbert. All 3had similar numbers, some got more minutes but per36 was pretty close. Also a guy like Marc Gasol was a pretty underwhelming prospect at 21
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:55 pm
by INFORMER
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:05 pm
by Nodack
You are alright Informer.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:07 pm
by INFORMER
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:07 am
by SDC
Ring_Wanted wrote:Show me a franchise player and Len is yours.
read teh tweet, then pls come up with a plausible trade offer.
Re: Suns Trade Tolliver
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:12 am
by SDC
