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Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:31 pm
by AmareIsGod
James Lindsay, a liberal academic, is voting for Trump simply because voting for Biden is a vote supporting wokeism? Are you fucking kidding me? Not you, specifically. Just this entire farce of an idea that Trump is better than some far fetched woke segment that is so open minded they will kill or cancel you. What the hell does that even mean? I need clear cut examples and not ideals.

For example, do you mean a woke person will kill someone for being racist or homophobic simply because they are "woke"? That the woke segment of society voted for and support Biden therefore a vote for Biden is a vote for wokeism?

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:42 pm
by Indy
3rdside wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:59 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:33 pm
Sure, one political party is participating in sedition and plotting to overturn the results of a free and fair election to install a dictator against the will of the people. But the REAL problem is that the other party sometimes gets offended when you do racism at them.
I don’t disagree as mentioned, but I suspect you’re underestimating the problem of wokeness in the world today - and it’s not just racism, it’s many ism’s (sexism, ageism, homophobia etc etc).

These ‘very credible people’ writing and speaking extensively about it - James Lindsay, Piers Morgan, Matthew Syed to name a few - is the case in point.
Thank you for putting that in quotes. It is hard to take people that openly support a racist like Trump as, writing credibly about the dangers of 'wokeness.'

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:57 am
by ShelC
bIGDRAWLS0072 wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:27 pm
I have a question for Kamala Harris, if her Joe Biden won then why won’t she give up her Senate Seat?
Just fyi, her seat's been filled now.

https://www.latimes.com/california/news ... california

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:47 am
by Nodack
Unrelated to the election. I just found it interesting.



There really was a war on Christmas, Mr. President. It was waged by Christians.
https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/a ... 824044.php

To understand why, first we have to establish how Christmas was celebrated back then. It was not a holiday to visit family and exchange gifts. There was no Santa Claus or reindeer or special attention given to kids. There wasn't even a candlelight church service of lessons and carols like many Christians attend today.

Christmas in the England the Puritans were escaping was essentially a drunken riot.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:54 am
by In2ition
Nodack wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:47 am
Unrelated to the election. I just found it interesting.



There really was a war on Christmas, Mr. President. It was waged by Christians.
https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/a ... 824044.php

To understand why, first we have to establish how Christmas was celebrated back then. It was not a holiday to visit family and exchange gifts. There was no Santa Claus or reindeer or special attention given to kids. There wasn't even a candlelight church service of lessons and carols like many Christians attend today.

Christmas in the England the Puritans were escaping was essentially a drunken riot.
That is interesting. Not surprised by this.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:48 pm
by Nodack
Dominion worker sues Trump campaign and conservative media
https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... c9f386a7b2
Eric Coomer, security director at the Colorado-based Dominion Voting Systems, said he wants his life back after being named in false charges as a key actor in “rigging” the election for President-elect Joe Biden. There has been no evidence that the election was rigged.

His lawsuit, filed Tuesday in district court in Denver County, Colorado, names the Trump campaign, lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell, conservative columnist Michelle Malkin, the website Gateway Pundit, Colorado conservative activist Joseph Oltmann, and conservative media Newsmax and One America News Network.

His lawyers said Coomer has become “the face of the false claims.” Coomer’s name first got public exposure in a podcast by Oltmann, who claimed to have heard a strategy call of Antifa activists. When the prospect of a Trump victory was brought up, Oltmann said a man identified as “Eric from Dominion” supposedly said “don’t worry about the election, Trump is not going to win. I made ... sure of that,” adding an expletive.

In an opinion piece written for the Denver Post, Coomer wrote that he has no connections to Antifa, was never on any call and the idea that there is some recording of him is “wholly fabricated.”

The fact-checking website Snopes said Oltmann hasn’t cooperated in any attempts to verify his claims.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:54 pm
by Nodack
Iran posing as Trump supporters trying to incite violence.

Iran Pushed Online Effort to Incite Violence Against Officials Defending U.S. Election Result
FBI finds Iran was behind website targeting Director Chris Wray and other federal and state officials
https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-pushe ... 1608693494
A website called “Enemies of the People” and some associated social- media accounts surfaced about two weeks ago that alleged Mr. Wray and about a dozen officials had engaged in treason because they “aided and abetted the fraudulent election against” Mr. Trump.

The website, which is no longer online, featured crosshairs over photos of people it said should be targeted for reprisal because they defended the election result declaring President-elect Joe Biden the winner as legitimate. It also included photos of homes and street addresses where the individuals lived as well as personal email addresses.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:21 am
by Mori Chu
There are going to be a lot of defamation lawsuits against various GOP media folks in a month or so.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:12 am
by AmareIsGod
Thanks, POS GOP. Gotta love House Republicans. Of course they wouldn't pass boosting American's stimulus checks. They have no problems though getting the old bill through that lined the pockets of the rich. Republicans are a fucking cancer.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/2 ... ost-450343

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:52 pm
by In2ition
The Reps aren't worried that Eric Coomer is suing them, they welcome it and the discovery that comes with it.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:50 pm
by 3rdside
AmareIsGod wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:31 pm
James Lindsay, a liberal academic, is voting for Trump simply because voting for Biden is a vote supporting wokeism? Are you fucking kidding me? Not you, specifically. Just this entire farce of an idea that Trump is better than some far fetched woke segment that is so open minded they will kill or cancel you. What the hell does that even mean? I need clear cut examples and not ideals.

For example, do you mean a woke person will kill someone for being racist or homophobic simply because they are "woke"? That the woke segment of society voted for and support Biden therefore a vote for Biden is a vote for wokeism?
Kill is too strong a word, cancel is the right way to put it.

I was looking for some articles to provide examples and came across the one below by Waleed Aly ... it's seriously long but might be the best summary of the topic (I say that having only read half of it as I'm due at my partner's parents house for Christmas in 45 mins and will be offline for at least a couple of days - will come back to it later iow).

Merry Christmas .net, this place has has been a bright spot during a very weird a** year..

Spoiler: show/hide

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:10 pm
by 3rdside
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:42 pm
3rdside wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:59 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:33 pm
Sure, one political party is participating in sedition and plotting to overturn the results of a free and fair election to install a dictator against the will of the people. But the REAL problem is that the other party sometimes gets offended when you do racism at them.
I don’t disagree as mentioned, but I suspect you’re underestimating the problem of wokeness in the world today - and it’s not just racism, it’s many ism’s (sexism, ageism, homophobia etc etc).

These ‘very credible people’ writing and speaking extensively about it - James Lindsay, Piers Morgan, Matthew Syed to name a few - is the case in point.
Thank you for putting that in quotes. It is hard to take people that openly support a racist like Trump as, writing credibly about the dangers of 'wokeness.'
Piers Morgan (he has definitely evolved into a far more respectable person of late, his early career was a little nasty as editor of a tabloid paper..):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Morgan

Matthew Syed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Syed

James Lindsay:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Lindsay


These are as credible as you're going to get and they're not raising Wokeness as an issue this because they're misguided, I'm fairly certain of that.

As for 'credible people voting for Trump' - it's probably worth remembering Biden didn't even come close to winning in a landslide and that not all of Trump's supporters are brainwashed. Why would sensible people do that? It's a question I keep asking myself.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:59 pm
by AmareIsGod
3rdside wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:50 pm
AmareIsGod wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:31 pm
James Lindsay, a liberal academic, is voting for Trump simply because voting for Biden is a vote supporting wokeism? Are you fucking kidding me? Not you, specifically. Just this entire farce of an idea that Trump is better than some far fetched woke segment that is so open minded they will kill or cancel you. What the hell does that even mean? I need clear cut examples and not ideals.

For example, do you mean a woke person will kill someone for being racist or homophobic simply because they are "woke"? That the woke segment of society voted for and support Biden therefore a vote for Biden is a vote for wokeism?
Kill is too strong a word, cancel is the right way to put it.

I was looking for some articles to provide examples and came across the one below by Waleed Aly ... it's seriously long but might be the best summary of the topic (I say that having only read half of it as I'm due at my partner's parents house for Christmas in 45 mins and will be offline for at least a couple of days - will come back to it later iow).

Merry Christmas .net, this place has has been a bright spot during a very weird a** year..

Spoiler: show/hide


So what is cancel vs. kill? Stop listening to someone entirely because of a difference of opinion? I guess I'm just getting lost with wokeism equating to a society that is far more dangerous than fascism and a dictatorship. A society that aligns with outrage when it comes to racism, sexism, etc., instead of one that just goes along with injustices for the sake of keeping things at bay and status quo.

I want your opinion and what it is about wokeism that is more dangerous, more problematic, that terrible leadership like Donald Trump making horrible decisions and fueling the flames of society and their problems by what he says on Twitter regularly. You've read the books, listened to the podcasts, etc., from folks you are saying are sane, logical people worth listening to. I'd just like a summary of what it is you feel about the issue to someone like me that doesn't have time at this very moment to deep dive into podcasts and books.

Edit: I didn't realize there was a collapsible spoiler section with an article. I'll read that this evening and it may better help me understand this issue better. It seems, from the first several paragraphs, that wokeism causes outrage to such an extent that we are then silencing critical thinking in many cases for the sake of preventing pockets of "woke" people from being offended. Which ends up, ultimately, creating a society that falls in line with thinking only one way, potentially.

Edit 2: Thank you for sharing. This is giving me much more insight into the situation. I can definitely understand the concern as well as knowing what you mean by cancelling people. If we quiet anyone that has an opinion, especially one grounded on factual merit and involves us to use critical thinking, we are headed towards a scary place where opinions are silences for fear of being reprimanded. That's not a world I want to live in. Your article points out several cases where, to appease a group of "woke" people that were upset or outraged, people were fired or forced to resign simply because their personal opinion conflicted with a social hot topic.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:10 pm
by Superbone
I think you guys are referring to cancel culture.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:13 pm
by AmareIsGod
Superbone wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:10 pm
I think you guys are referring to cancel culture.
It seems like it. Maybe wokeism is a new term for what I've always thought of as cancel culture. I do think that there should be action taken or criticism levied against views and opinions that are used to incite violence. That goes for white supremists, BLM folks calling for violent responses to injustices, etc., etc.,

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:42 pm
by Indy
3rdside wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:10 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:42 pm
3rdside wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:59 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:33 pm
Sure, one political party is participating in sedition and plotting to overturn the results of a free and fair election to install a dictator against the will of the people. But the REAL problem is that the other party sometimes gets offended when you do racism at them.
I don’t disagree as mentioned, but I suspect you’re underestimating the problem of wokeness in the world today - and it’s not just racism, it’s many ism’s (sexism, ageism, homophobia etc etc).

These ‘very credible people’ writing and speaking extensively about it - James Lindsay, Piers Morgan, Matthew Syed to name a few - is the case in point.
Thank you for putting that in quotes. It is hard to take people that openly support a racist like Trump as, writing credibly about the dangers of 'wokeness.'
Piers Morgan (he has definitely evolved into a far more respectable person of late, his early career was a little nasty as editor of a tabloid paper..):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Morgan

Matthew Syed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Syed

James Lindsay:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Lindsay


These are as credible as you're going to get and they're not raising Wokeness as an issue this because they're misguided, I'm fairly certain of that.

As for 'credible people voting for Trump' - it's probably worth remembering Biden didn't even come close to winning in a landslide and that not all of Trump's supporters are brainwashed. Why would sensible people do that? It's a question I keep asking myself.
I am not saying that everyone who voted for Trump isn't credible. I am saying that everyone that voted for Trump actively supported an openly racist, sexist, xenophobe. People that actively support people like that, who then 'speak out against wokeness' are not standing on firm ground to make their arguments. I know we won't agree on that point, though.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:42 pm
by Indy
In2ition wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:52 pm
The Reps aren't worried that Eric Coomer is suing them, they welcome it and the discovery that comes with it.
Then why did Newsmax and Fox News do such a fast back pedal on their claims?

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:28 pm
by In2ition
Indy wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:42 pm
In2ition wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:52 pm
The Reps aren't worried that Eric Coomer is suing them, they welcome it and the discovery that comes with it.
Then why did Newsmax and Fox News do such a fast back pedal on their claims?
Sure, some are very worried about suits and don't want to spend the money to fight it, so they will bend over backwards to avoid it after a threat. Wood responded to them and said to go ahead and file your suit. He's looking forward to Deposition & Discovery.

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:30 pm
by Indy
sorry, who is lin wood and how is he connected to companies like gateway pundit or newsmax or fox news?

Re: 2020 Election Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:37 pm
by virtual9mm
3rdside wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:10 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:42 pm
3rdside wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:59 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:33 pm
Sure, one political party is participating in sedition and plotting to overturn the results of a free and fair election to install a dictator against the will of the people. But the REAL problem is that the other party sometimes gets offended when you do racism at them.
I don’t disagree as mentioned, but I suspect you’re underestimating the problem of wokeness in the world today - and it’s not just racism, it’s many ism’s (sexism, ageism, homophobia etc etc).

These ‘very credible people’ writing and speaking extensively about it - James Lindsay, Piers Morgan, Matthew Syed to name a few - is the case in point.
Thank you for putting that in quotes. It is hard to take people that openly support a racist like Trump as, writing credibly about the dangers of 'wokeness.'
Piers Morgan (he has definitely evolved into a far more respectable person of late, his early career was a little nasty as editor of a tabloid paper..):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Morgan

Matthew Syed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Syed

James Lindsay:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Lindsay


These are as credible as you're going to get and they're not raising Wokeness as an issue this because they're misguided, I'm fairly certain of that.

As for 'credible people voting for Trump' - it's probably worth remembering Biden didn't even come close to winning in a landslide and that not all of Trump's supporters are brainwashed. Why would sensible people do that? It's a question I keep asking myself.
I do agree that wokism is a problem -- more and more every day. And it is clear to me that had a minority of the BLM protests not gone violent the Dems would be sitting with a nice Senate majority.

That being said, James Lindsey and anyone who voted for Trump as a protest against wokism is on crack. The man put up concentration camps on the southern border. Protest voting for him is like blowing your brains out because you had a bad headache.