Suns News: Week 2 11/2-11/8

[LazarusLong]

Ring: Good post.

Smart ballplayers sense a desperate franchise the way a normal person smells fresh dogshit from a St. Bernard. Even if the money is good, most of the premier players won't want to wallow in mediocrity.

[Superbone]

The coach has to take responsibility for how the ball moves. If it's not moving the way he likes, he can put in guys that will.

[Shabazz]

The coach has to take responsibility for how the ball moves. If it's not moving the way he likes, he can put in guys that will.

What I notice is how long it takes to get in to our offense. A lot of slowly bringing the ball up or purposeless passing around the perimeter and a lot of standing around. There's usually 13 seconds left on the shot clock before we start our first action. It's the opposite of the way successful offenses (GS, SA) are running these days.

[Superbone]

The coach has to take responsibility for how the ball moves. If it's not moving the way he likes, he can put in guys that will.

What I notice is how long it takes to get in to our offense. A lot of slowly bringing the ball up or purposeless passing around the perimeter and a lot of standing around. There's usually 13 seconds left on the shot clock before we start our first action. It's the opposite of the way successful offenses (GS, SA) are running these days.

BINGO! (Sorry, been listening to too much Ralph Lawler lately.)

[Indy]

let's say after 20-30 games we end up being more or less what we are looking like at the moment. Bad shooting, low IQ, inefficiency. In a word, ugliness. I guess you have to do something, don't you? Either adapt the roster to the coach's style, or change the coach to someone who can make better use of the ability available.

Call me naive, but which coach out there is good at using poor shooting, low BB IQ players and making a playoff team out of them?

[Indy]

The coach has to take responsibility for how the ball moves. If it's not moving the way he likes, he can put in guys that will.

What I notice is how long it takes to get in to our offense. A lot of slowly bringing the ball up or purposeless passing around the perimeter and a lot of standing around. There's usually 13 seconds left on the shot clock before we start our first action. It's the opposite of the way successful offenses (GS, SA) are running these days.

What confuses me is why that happens. I have been sitting at the game a few rows up watching Jeff literally scream at Bledsoe or Knight (and sometimes Price) to move the ball to a specific side/player, and they keep throwing the ball around the perimeter, or worse yet, just stand there pounding the ball. Do you fire the coach because players aren't listening, or sit your $140M back court?

[Superbone]

If the players aren't listening, sit them. I don't care how much they get paid. They do what you ask, they play. It's as simple as that. Otherwise, you'll continue to get the same results. Play Price, Booker, and Goodwin.

[Indy]

If the players aren't listening, sit them. I don't care how much they get paid. They do what you ask, they play. It's as simple as that. Otherwise, you'll continue to get the same results. Play Price, Booker, and Goodwin.

But Booker can't run an offense and Goodwin hasn't shown that either. And honestly, isn't Price playing way more than anyone expected?

[Mori Chu]

I agree with Bone. Player doesn't listen, you bench him. Period. I have never understood people who put up with crap like this. You bench him, I guarantee you, he will either come around, or if he doesn't, you can ship him out. You build a no-BS culture and it will work.

[Ring_Wanted]

let's say after 20-30 games we end up being more or less what we are looking like at the moment. Bad shooting, low IQ, inefficiency. In a word, ugliness. I guess you have to do something, don't you? Either adapt the roster to the coach's style, or change the coach to someone who can make better use of the ability available.

Call me naive, but which coach out there is good at using poor shooting, low BB IQ players and making a playoff team out of them?

It's hard to get through some player's skill, but this roster is not devoid of talent and has real defensive potential. Thibs' Bulls, or the Fratello Grizzlies during the first couple of years of our SSOL were also rosters with bad shooting and a number of knuckleheads, but teams like these play differently than what Hornacek is trying. They don't rely on creativity, but on mechanism and low risk aproach, and they bust their asses off on defense. Hornacek wants the Suns to play like they still have Nash or Dragic, but basing an offense on passes by both Bledsoe and Brandon Knight is simply not a good idea. One poor decision maker at the helm is enough already, you shouldn't want to compound that flaw although that's on the GM more than the coach, but the 'system' is still installed and executed by Hornacek.

Really, I am starting to want Knight moved as soon as possible, unless you have to balls to use him as a 6th man. Kieff is already gone in my mind and so is Tucker. At this point I am not actively looking for the coach's head but not playing the kids and not being a disciplinarian when it is needed is taking its toll.

[virtual9mm]

Agreed that the team has substantially more talent than most people give it credit for. The problem is that it is built around two score-first point guards, It's as if McD has imprinted on his success with Avery Bradley and has disowned the pass-first model.

Replace Markieff with an effective stretch 4 -- or perhaps even bench Markieff and have Leuer start. Trade Knight for a Goran Dragic who seems to be highly underutilized in Miami. I would bet that the Suns would be in contention for a #5 seed in the West.

Or keep the current team and give them a few more games to figure things out. The problem is that the West is so strong, though, and that there is so little margin for error.

[Ring_Wanted]

At least New Orleans and Memphis are starting really slow. On the other hand, it could happen that Utah and maybe even Minni are legitimate. Denver and Portland should show their true colors soon enough.

[OE32]

Knight's been very disappointing, but I'm willing to give the guy time to figure things out. The biggest problem has been his unwillingness to drive and score. He stops at odd places looking to pass the ball, and he fakes the drive so frequently that he ends up taking long twos. Is he afraid of contact? Is the ankle still bothering him? If he starts going inside looking for his own shot, it would really open up his game. Let's hope he has it in him.

I wish Keef were traded yesterday. Guy's a bum. Leuer's played better. Hopefully, Marcus's performance convinces someone that if they take on a disgruntled Morris, they'll end up with a better player than what they see in Purple and Orange.

Edit: I just reviewed Brandon's Milwaukee stats. Back when he was AASE, his stats weren't very different compared to now - essentially, he was the player he currently is for us, except that he was draining the 3 ball at a 41% clip rather than a 34% clip.

[Mori Chu]

I wish Keef were traded yesterday. Guy's a bum. Leuer's played better. Hopefully, Marcus's performance convinces someone that if they take on a disgruntled Morris, they'll end up with a better player than what they see in Purple and Orange.

I really hope there's a team out there that sees it that way. We badly need to offload the guy. His numbers are deceptively not-that-bad other than his FG% but he is clearly tuned out during the games and just jacks up shots without giving a flip what the play was supposed to be.

[Cap]

I just reviewed Brandon's Milwaukee stats. Back when he was AASE, his stats weren't very different compared to now - essentially, he was the player he currently is for us, except that he was draining the 3 ball at a 41% clip rather than a 34% clip.

He put up 18/5/4, with 41% from downtown. Those are AAS-caliber numbers, as long as you don't look much more closely. When the East is having difficulty finding guards for it's AS squad, it's natural that a player with Knight's simple stats would be introduced into the conversation by some pundits who don't look beyond them.

On the other hand, if you do look beyond them, you'll find that Knight was also a defensive liability, and had the worst +/- of any rotation player on the Bucks. He averaged -0.9/game, then they traded him for Michael Carter-Williams who averaged +4.0. When trading you for MCW results in a 5 pt/gm improvement, and the team that receives you gets much worse, you're not really an AAS-caliber player.

[Mori Chu]

Yeah, I would say he's more of an almost-an-almost-all-star-in-the-East these days. AAAASE.

[Hermen]

Bucks' winning percentage fell off significantly after the Knight trade though

[pickle]

I wish Keef were traded yesterday. Guy's a bum. Leuer's played better. Hopefully, Marcus's performance convinces someone that if they take on a disgruntled Morris, they'll end up with a better player than what they see in Purple and Orange.

I really hope there's a team out there that sees it that way. We badly need to offload the guy. His numbers are deceptively not-that-bad other than his FG% but he is clearly tuned out during the games and just jacks up shots without giving a flip what the play was supposed to be.

i think every team that may be willing to look at a trade for markieff would know that he'll instantly become a better player, though i doubt any team is willing to put up any value to get him, because they know we hold no leverage whatsoever in this situation. i am pissed off enough at the situation at this point that i just want to bench him or ask him to take a leave of absence until he can clear his head. that or take the 24 million dollars still owed to him for the next three years and go help clean marcus' house in detroit, but don't come to phoenix and don't get on the basketball court again for the next three years. i would hate to trade him for some inconsequential 2nd rounder and then see him play well. assholes should not be rewarded for being assholes, no matter how talented.

[pickle]

He put up 18/5/4, with 41% from downtown. Those are AAS-caliber numbers, as long as you don't look much more closely. When the East is having difficulty finding guards for it's AS squad, it's natural that a player with Knight's simple stats would be introduced into the conversation by some pundits who don't look beyond them.

On the other hand, if you do look beyond them, you'll find that Knight was also a defensive liability, and had the worst +/- of any rotation player on the Bucks. He averaged -0.9/game, then they traded him for Michael Carter-Williams who averaged +4.0. When trading you for MCW results in a 5 pt/gm improvement, and the team that receives you gets much worse, you're not really an AAS-caliber player.

we are frustrated with brandon knight, i get that, but i would definitely not want MCW on this team either (yes i'd rather have the draft pick). i wouldn't mind using knight as a sixth man, in the *gasp* isaiah thomas role. seems like knight is mature enough to maybe handle such a role too... at this point i think we just have to take it one battle at a time. first cleanse the roster of all the a-holes that made this franchise an unpleasant destination, then we figure out the actual game of basketball. i'm glad that knight has been a model citizen and has adjusted his role (however unsuccessfully) to fit the team.

[Indy]

Depressing.