Suns News: Week 8 12/9-12/15

[Drewsprocket]

Ayton is far superior than any of those.

I mean it’s not even close.

I think so, especially if we include other young players and picks. I hope we wouldn't include Cam, but if that's what it would take to get KAT, you have to consider it.

I’d take KAT in a heartbeat to stabilize the Suns roster for a longtime. TJ, Ayton, plus picks, get it done?

[specialsauce]

Ayton is far superior than any of those.

I mean it’s not even close.

He could be...hasn’t shown a whole lot yet. Probably the best bet as a centerpiece, but I think Isaac could end up having a better career in the modern nba.

Dude if you think Isaac is anywhere near Aytons level I am shocked. The disrespect is real

[ShelC]

It'd depend on Minny. NY could offer more young players with starter potential like DSJ and Mitch Rob to put around Culver and Wiggins for the future plus expirings and a ton of picks. Isaac is the kind of guy FO execs drool over - Ayton maybe not as much. Issac's got the "shows flashes" allure while Ayton at the moment looks to be a meat and potatoes big.

Also thinking Chicago could kick the tires with Markkanen perhaps.

[Split T]

Ayton is far superior than any of those.

I mean it’s not even close.

He could be...hasn’t shown a whole lot yet. Probably the best bet as a centerpiece, but I think Isaac could end up having a better career in the modern nba.

Dude if you think Isaac is anywhere near Aytons level I am shocked. The disrespect is real

Your disrespect for Isaac is real. Isaac is really good. It’s not a knock on Ayton. Have you watched Isaac or followed him at all?

His per36 numbers put him at 14/8/2, which is nothing special, but he also puts up 3 blocks and 2 steals. He hits 33% from 3. He’s got the size to play C, and the quickness to play on the wing. He’s a potential defensive player of the year candidate. Like a bigger Andrei Kirilenko.

Ayton has a higher ceiling because of his offensive potential, and I agree he’d make a better centerpiece for a KAT trade, but I don’t know that he’ll have a better career than Isaac. Isaac can space the floor, attack off the dribble, defend the rim, switch on the perimeter. He does everything you’d want in a 4/5.

[LazarusLong]

... and Isaac was there for the taking in the 2017 draft.
Instead, Phoenix selected Josh "G League" Jackson.

[Split T]

... and Isaac was there for the taking in the 2017 draft.
Instead, Phoenix selected Josh "G League" Jackson.

Yep...I really liked Jackson and was happy with the pick, but I would have taken Isaac. That makes me feel a little better because I was way off on Jackson.

[JCSunsfan]

KAT is just wishful thinking. Our only chance would be if Ayton turns into a star. And at that point, we’d probably just keep Ayton. KAT is under contract for 4.5 years, he’s a top 12 guy and he’s only 23. Would take a massive haul to get him. Would you offer Ayton, Mikal, Cam, and 3 1sts? That’s what it’s gonna take.

If KT is forcing his way out and Minny decides to trade him, it will not take that much. Ayton, two firsts, salary filler (TJ) would probably be it. No one else will have the single player to make the deal like Ayton is. Minny gets a young player, with lots of control, and cheap plus opens up a LOT of salary.

Funny. ESPN trade machine says BOTH teams improve substantially with that trade.

I kinda like keeping Ayton though. Minny would have to be quite motivated for me to listen.

[Mori Chu]

If KT is forcing his way out and Minny decides to trade him, it will not take that much. Ayton, two firsts, salary filler (TJ) would probably be it. No one else will have the single player to make the deal like Ayton is. Minny gets a young player, with lots of control, and cheap plus opens up a LOT of salary.

I am skeptical about that. I think some team will offer them 1-2 talented young players plus 2 or more 1st round picks. I think an offer of Ayton plus other youngs (Bridges and/or Cam etc.) plus ballast (Tyler Johnson probably) plus our 2020 and 2022 1st-rounders gets close. That's a lot to give up, but KAT is such a stud that you have to look at it seriously. Minny might not even bite on that trade unless and until Ayton has been back and healthy for several games and puts up good numbers.

[Split T]

Ya I agree with Mori here, it’s gonna take a lot to get KAT. He’s under contract for 4.5 years...things would have to get really bad for Minny to feel the need to move on. 2 scenarios I see towards a trade.

1) KAT and Wolves relationship gets very toxic and they have to move him.

2) Wolves are just awful and they way preemptively move KAT to retool.

#1 is the situation that I feel like posters here are assuming and making offers accordingly. I don’t think that’s the case. Minny’s ideal situation is building around KAT, so to get him, you’ve gotta blow them away.

Which brings us to scenario 2, if the Wolves start playing better, they just simply aren’t going to trade him. If they continue to struggle and KAT starts to get frustrated, maybe they’d listen. But they will need to be blown away. KAT is still their ideal building block. You’d have to make it worth their while.

Ayton is obviously the center piece. 2 or 3 1sts would also be included, salary filler, and at least 1 if not 2 young prospects. Or if they want to dump Wiggins, we could keep keep a prospect or 2.

I’d guess it would either be Ayton/TJ/Cam/Mikal/2 1sts for KAT or Ayton/TJ/Oubre/2 1sts for KAT/Wiggins

[England Sun]

It's new years so I've not got time to look in to the salary cap situation, all well and good adding KAT, but all of these trades leave us short of 2-3 players and holes to fill at the 4 and back up pg position even before we replace wings.
Who else is out there to make us a full starting 5 and an actual bench if we land him?

[Drewsprocket]

The whole front office, Book, and Monty all would gladly take on KAT. If i were a betting man, JJ is going after that trade as we speak or contriving a way to make it happen. I just hope it never comes out in the public if it doesn’t go down.

[Split T]

There’s 0% chance of a KAT trade this season. It might go up to 1% in the off-season. Then back to 0% if they don’t trade him in the summer. I just don’t see any reason for them to move him mid season when he’s got 4 years left under contract.

[Wormwood]

KAT is a God-level offensive player. If you can acquire him, do so. I think Oubre is overrated: his advanced stats put him at solid back up level, not starter. His defense, while frenetic, isn't all that effective. A trade package with Oubre and Ayton as the pricinples for KAT works just fine for me (plus a couple of draft picks with some moderate level of protection.

[specialsauce]

Ayton is far superior than any of those.

I mean it’s not even close.

He could be...hasn’t shown a whole lot yet. Probably the best bet as a centerpiece, but I think Isaac could end up having a better career in the modern nba.

Dude if you think Isaac is anywhere near Aytons level I am shocked. The disrespect is real

Your disrespect for Isaac is real. Isaac is really good. It’s not a knock on Ayton. Have you watched Isaac or followed him at all?

His per36 numbers put him at 14/8/2, which is nothing special, but he also puts up 3 blocks and 2 steals. He hits 33% from 3. He’s got the size to play C, and the quickness to play on the wing. He’s a potential defensive player of the year candidate. Like a bigger Andrei Kirilenko.

Ayton has a higher ceiling because of his offensive potential, and I agree he’d make a better centerpiece for a KAT trade, but I don’t know that he’ll have a better career than Isaac. Isaac can space the floor, attack off the dribble, defend the rim, switch on the perimeter. He does everything you’d want in a 4/5.

You’re talking about a bonafide role player vs a cornerstone. The stats show different tiers of players.

Aytons strengths provide him the chance to be a superstar and he’s already a walking #2 on a team if he sleepwalks through his career as a 20/10 guy.

Isaac is a great role player. Can’t even compare the two pieces in trade value.

People on this board hate on Ayton on another level just because of who he ISNT (D****c). Let’s appreciate what he is.

[Split T]

Ayton is far superior than any of those.

I mean it’s not even close.

He could be...hasn’t shown a whole lot yet. Probably the best bet as a centerpiece, but I think Isaac could end up having a better career in the modern nba.

Dude if you think Isaac is anywhere near Aytons level I am shocked. The disrespect is real

Your disrespect for Isaac is real. Isaac is really good. It’s not a knock on Ayton. Have you watched Isaac or followed him at all?

His per36 numbers put him at 14/8/2, which is nothing special, but he also puts up 3 blocks and 2 steals. He hits 33% from 3. He’s got the size to play C, and the quickness to play on the wing. He’s a potential defensive player of the year candidate. Like a bigger Andrei Kirilenko.

Ayton has a higher ceiling because of his offensive potential, and I agree he’d make a better centerpiece for a KAT trade, but I don’t know that he’ll have a better career than Isaac. Isaac can space the floor, attack off the dribble, defend the rim, switch on the perimeter. He does everything you’d want in a 4/5.

You’re talking about a bonafide role player vs a cornerstone. The stats show different tiers of players.

Aytons strengths provide him the chance to be a superstar and he’s already a walking #2 on a team if he sleepwalks through his career as a 20/10 guy.

Isaac is a great role player. Can’t even compare the two pieces in trade value.

People on this board hate on Ayton on another level just because of who he ISNT (D****c). Let’s appreciate what he is.

Sure, Isaac is most likely never gonna be a traditional cornerstone guy. Ayton would be the Amare, Isaac would be the Marion. I think Isaac can be versatile enough and good enough at what he does, that he becomes an all star level role player. I like Ayton, but there is a very real possibility that he’s Andre Drummond or Hassan Whiteside or Nik Vucevic. Those are nice players, maybe even an occasional all star appearance, but they don’t impose their will on the game. Ayton is always going to be a highly efficient offensive player. He’s going to be one of the better rebounders in the league. Is he going to be someone we can go to when we need a bucket? Can he take over a game offensively or defensively? Right now those answers are no and I’d argue that if they stay no, he’s also just a role player. A very good role player, but a role player.

Ayton will probably be a 20/10 with 2 blocks guy for a long time. But is that better than 15/8 with 2 blocks and 2 steals and a guy that could defend Doncic, Giannis, switch onto a guy like Trae?

But yes, if Ayton figures it out either offensively or defensively, or both, he has the higher ceiling.

[SunsRIt]

Ayton is far superior than any of those.

I mean it’s not even close.

He could be...hasn’t shown a whole lot yet. Probably the best bet as a centerpiece, but I think Isaac could end up having a better career in the modern nba.

Dude if you think Isaac is anywhere near Aytons level I am shocked. The disrespect is real

Your disrespect for Isaac is real. Isaac is really good. It’s not a knock on Ayton. Have you watched Isaac or followed him at all?

His per36 numbers put him at 14/8/2, which is nothing special, but he also puts up 3 blocks and 2 steals. He hits 33% from 3. He’s got the size to play C, and the quickness to play on the wing. He’s a potential defensive player of the year candidate. Like a bigger Andrei Kirilenko.

Ayton has a higher ceiling because of his offensive potential, and I agree he’d make a better centerpiece for a KAT trade, but I don’t know that he’ll have a better career than Isaac. Isaac can space the floor, attack off the dribble, defend the rim, switch on the perimeter. He does everything you’d want in a 4/5.

You’re talking about a bonafide role player vs a cornerstone. The stats show different tiers of players.

Aytons strengths provide him the chance to be a superstar and he’s already a walking #2 on a team if he sleepwalks through his career as a 20/10 guy.

Isaac is a great role player. Can’t even compare the two pieces in trade value.

People on this board hate on Ayton on another level just because of who he ISNT (D****c). Let’s appreciate what he is.

This times a million!!

[rhylek]

Sure, Isaac is most likely never gonna be a traditional cornerstone guy. Ayton would be the Amare, Isaac would be the Marion. I think Isaac can be versatile enough and good enough at what he does, that he becomes an all star level role player. I like Ayton, but there is a very real possibility that he’s Andre Drummond or Hassan Whiteside or Nik Vucevic. Those are nice players, maybe even an occasional all star appearance, but they don’t impose their will on the game. Ayton is always going to be a highly efficient offensive player. He’s going to be one of the better rebounders in the league. Is he going to be someone we can go to when we need a bucket? Can he take over a game offensively or defensively? Right now those answers are no and I’d argue that if they stay no, he’s also just a role player. A very good role player, but a role player.

Ayton will probably be a 20/10 with 2 blocks guy for a long time. But is that better than 15/8 with 2 blocks and 2 steals and a guy that could defend Doncic, Giannis, switch onto a guy like Trae?

But yes, if Ayton figures it out either offensively or defensively, or both, he has the higher ceiling.

Ayton defended pretty well against Lebron and (if I remember correctly) Giannis

[specialsauce]

Yeah, he did.

[In2ition]

He did well in the 4th vs Whiteside and when he was switched onto Lillard.

[Split T]

Ayton has shown some pretty good one on one defensive skills. Long ways to go as a help defender though. I don’t hate Ayton. I was fine with him as the pick over Doncic, it’s who I would have picked at 1, but I’m not convinced he’s a superstar in the making. He’s got a lot to show still.