The 2021 Suns Offseason

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Gladiator
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Gladiator »

I think we’re zero chance of getting Jarrett Allen but as others have said that might make Nance jnr available. I don’t know how we make a trade with the Cavs to get him. He’s on a pretty friendly contract for another year (I think). We don’t have a heap of good draft picks to offer. Would we be prepared to offer Stix (and maybe a pick) and go all in on the next 1-2 seasons?

Gladiator
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Gladiator »

Even with Nance, I think we’d need a legit back up big for certain match-ups and when Ayton is in foul trouble (we clearly relied on him just a bit too much against the Bucks).

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ShelC
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by ShelC »

I like the idea of Kanter maybe more than the player. He may want more money/minutes than we're able to give. Also doesn't address the athleticism/defense issue but is a double double guy with minutes. Noel and Holmes will look for money/minutes.

McGee fits into that role of serviceable, veteran backup who can play in a pinch but won't be unhappy with 6mpg or some DNPs. And he'd give us a lot more length, athleticism and shotblocking than we've had. Also a lob threat with Paul.

Not a ton of other options - Robin Lopez, Theis, Hernangomez? Olynyk? Jeff Green? Blake Griffin?

Also, here's a very good article from David Kevin. He's a great follow on Twitter, usually does a ton of film breakdown but here's an offseason breakdown with different scenarios with our cap space (assuming he's accurate).



He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.

Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.
Last edited by ShelC on Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

That sounds about right to me, Shel. I'm expecting the only real changes to this roster to be on the back end, which can still be critical as we just saw Frank Kaminsky play real minutes in the NBA Finals.

Jarret Allen isn't happening with Ayton on the roster. I'm honestly not sure why anyone would think it's possible to roster both of them. He's probably going to get a contract that's at least 70% of Ayton's. Pretty much ditto for Theis. Less money than Allen, but still too expensive for his role on the Suns.

Speaking of Ayton, he's proved he's worth a max level contract. But I'm extremely curious how he's going to respond to the playoff experience and especially the lessons he should've learned going head to head against Giannis. I'd like to see him better develop his ballhandling and passing in addition to a few more offensive moves.

Given Dario's injury, I think we'll know pretty quickly what the staff thinks of Jalen Smith. I think it'll be a bad sign for him if the Suns go pretty hard after someone to fill Dario's role. Yet his role is quite hard to fill because he's not a traditional big guy, he's the 'connector' as Monty put it. I don't think Jalen Smith is at all ready for that, so maybe they'll need to move on from him quicker than they would've otherwise liked because they don't have a real role for him now.

It's not my job to figure how they do it, but I just want Kelly Olynyk. I think he's a perfect Dario clone for the bench, and he's a better shooter who could play next to Ayton in the right matchups.
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ShelC
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by ShelC »

Olynyk would be great but I think out of our price range and may want more minutes than we have to offer. He'd also be redundant if/when Dario comes back unless we get him on a 1yr deal. Wouldn't stop me from signing him but just something to think about. No idea what the market will be like for Theiss. Probably out of range too.

Stix is the x-factor. I'm sure Monty and everyone has a good idea of what he'll be able to contribute, if anything. I'm not super encouraged that he wasn't able to get on the floor at all this season. And like you said, Stix may not be ready for that high post passer/connector role.

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Mori Chu
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Mori Chu »

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:20 pm
Could we convince Big Sauce to come back? Why the hell did we let him leave, again?
Answering my own question: Alan "Big Sauce" Williams seems to be playing for Lokomotiv Kuban of the VTB United League in Russia. Presumably we could grab him back if we wanted him?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Will ... asketball)

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:26 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:20 pm
Could we convince Big Sauce to come back? Why the hell did we let him leave, again?
Answering my own question: Alan "Big Sauce" Williams seems to be playing for Lokomotiv Kuban of the VTB United League in Russia. Presumably we could grab him back if we wanted him?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Will ... asketball)
He was at a few playoffs games sitting a couple rows behind me with his parents (I think). So he is around. But for whatever reason, we don't want him. We had many opportunities to pick him up, even on a 10-day, when we were in need of big guys. And we didn't.

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

ShelC wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:35 am
I like the idea of Kanter maybe more than the player. He may want more money/minutes than we're able to give. Also doesn't address the athleticism/defense issue but is a double double guy with minutes. Noel and Holmes will look for money/minutes.

McGee fits into that role of serviceable, veteran backup who can play in a pinch but won't be unhappy with 6mpg or some DNPs. And he'd give us a lot more length, athleticism and shotblocking than we've had. Also a lob threat with Paul.

Not a ton of other options - Robin Lopez, Theis, Hernangomez? Olynyk? Jeff Green? Blake Griffin?

Also, here's a very good article from David Kevin. He's a great follow on Twitter, usually does a ton of film breakdown but here's an offseason breakdown with different scenarios with our cap space (assuming he's accurate).


He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.

Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.
The thing I like about Kanter is that he is a huge offensive board guy. We were exposed a lot on that end of the glass. And that might also be good for Ayton in practice.

I wish there were Mark Bryants around still. Guys that are big enough to play a legit 5, but more of a power 4 that can rebound against anyone, and loves to use his fouls. That would let Ayton stay as a 5, but keep a guy around on the bench that can play 6-10 minutes a game and play with or without Ayton.

But it is true he does nothing for our athleticism issues.

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

ShelC wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:35 am
...

Also, here's a very good article from David Kevin. He's a great follow on Twitter, usually does a ton of film breakdown but here's an offseason breakdown with different scenarios with our cap space (assuming he's accurate).


...
btw--if you don't subscribe to David's newsletters, you are really missing out. The guy does more analysis on the Suns than anyone, and he does it from half-way across the world. It would be amazing to have him in AZ as a full-time Suns reporter/analysis. Hell, he could probably work for the Suns.

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ShelC
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by ShelC »

Yea David Kevin's a great follow. His video breakdowns are legit, really in-depth stuff.

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Mori Chu
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Mori Chu »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:41 am
He was at a few playoffs games sitting a couple rows behind me with his parents (I think). So he is around. But for whatever reason, we don't want him. We had many opportunities to pick him up, even on a 10-day, when we were in need of big guys. And we didn't.
Guessing he just isn't a James Jones guy. That sounds cliche but I think it's a real thing. GMs don't like end-of-the-bench roleplayer guys they didn't discover themselves.

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Split T
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Split T »

No one else is picking up Alan Williams either…he’s probably just not an nba player. He could get boards and finish around the rim, but I think he’d struggle to defend anyone in today’s nba. He’d be a liability on that end and he doesn’t offer any spacing or play making on offense. He was fun and good at what he did, but I don’t think he’s a guy that you could play in the post season. As a 15th man? Maybe, but that’s about it.
Thad Young please

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:29 am
No one else is picking up Alan Williams either…he’s probably just not an nba player. He could get boards and finish around the rim, but I think he’d struggle to defend anyone in today’s nba. He’d be a liability on that end and he doesn’t offer any spacing or play making on offense. He was fun and good at what he did, but I don’t think he’s a guy that you could play in the post season. As a 15th man? Maybe, but that’s about it.
He was fun on a 20 win team. That is probably about it.

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Superbone
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Superbone »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:49 am
Split T wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:29 am
No one else is picking up Alan Williams either…he’s probably just not an nba player. He could get boards and finish around the rim, but I think he’d struggle to defend anyone in today’s nba. He’d be a liability on that end and he doesn’t offer any spacing or play making on offense. He was fun and good at what he did, but I don’t think he’s a guy that you could play in the post season. As a 15th man? Maybe, but that’s about it.
He was fun on a 20 win team. That is probably about it.
He was a great story and a great guy. Local player joins his favorite team. Too bad he's undersized. He's probably where he belongs.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Shabazz
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Shabazz »

The obvious hope is that any decline from CP3 over the next 3 years is offset by improvement from Book, Ayton and Mikal.
Free Agent Wish List: [Womp Womp]

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The Bobster
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by The Bobster »

Big Sauce was playing in Europe and blew out a knee ligament this past season. Don't know when he's suppose to be 100%.

Also, he's not great defensively, but I still like him and would be happy with him on the roster.
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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

I heard Alan Williams hurt his knee this year.

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Split T
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Split T »

Supposedly the Cavs are shopping Collin Sexton…I think his ideal role is as a 3rd guard that can just go nuclear off the bench. I’ve been flirting with the idea of getting him and Nance in a package from Cleveland. I doubt we’d be able to do that without giving up someone in our core though.

Would Saric/Smith/Carter and 2 1sts interest them at all? Probably not. They’d want Cam Johnson too and it’s not worth it at that point.

I’d still gladly package Smith/Carter with a 1st for Nance though.
Thad Young please

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BAMF
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by BAMF »

Bucktastic365 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:11 am
Split T wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:27 pm
Is there a long, athletic 4 that shoots 3s, creates shots for himself and others, and can defend 1-5 that we can add? I’d try to do that, haha
Christian Wood was my 1st thought. Miles Turner?
Dario on JC would make the deal work and maybe add our pick to sweeten it.

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BAMF
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by BAMF »

I think we should go after Olynyk, Whiteside or Dieng if we go after free agents. Each are big and bring something we need.

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