Western Conference Round 2, Game 1: Suns (0-0) @ Nuggets (0-0), Sat 4/29/23

[Shabazz]

DA standing out of bounds watching a rebounding battle used to be pretty common in his 1st and 2nd yr but he'd gotten better. That play is pretty indicative of his regression this year in terms of effort. I think earlier in the game KD even motioned to him to get down in the paint and rebound when he was caught on perimeter watching.

I'd be surprised if Monty went away from Shamet because that's his safety blanket but he's gotta bend and get more offense out there. We need guys to be threats to score and make the Nuggets work on defense. Ross can light it up and attack, so can TJ. Shamet is there to swing the ball and cut away. He provides nothing.

He provides effort on D and probably knows where he should be on the floor, but no actual production. Murray saw Shamet guarding him and went to work. BBQ chicken.

[Shabazz]

Ayton being blasted all over social media today, just brings me joy. I want him gone so bad. Waste of money.

I’m very ready to move on, too. I’d rather his value not go further into the shitter in the process.

[Shabazz]

I don’t get not playing Payne. He at least creates rim pressure and is willing to shoot 3s.

[Split T]

And I’ll also say Landry and CP3 warrant criticism too for not being worth their salary. Imagine if we just kept Melton around(similar salary to Shamet). He’d be awesome with this team.

CP3 still has some value, but 28 million worth? Would we be worse if we had Conley at 20 million and another 8 million player for some bench depth?

I hope we can turn Ayton into 2-3 depth pieces next year. Lower CP3’s salary(can he waive the non-guaranteed money and play for us at 15 million? Or can we re-sign him if we cut him?) I’d absolutely love to flip Shamet, but Monty seems to value him for some reason. I used to think we’d need to give Josh at least part of the TPMLE, but I don’t think so anymore. The 120% increase should be enough.

I’m not giving up on this season, but hard to not be excited about having a real chance to build this roster around Book/KD. Those two have been phenomenal. Outside some turnovers from KD

[Split T]

I don’t get not playing Payne. He at least creates rim pressure and is willing to shoot 3s.

Ya I hope he gets the nod tomorrow

[Split T]

Haven’t listened yet, but Nekias is definitely smarter than me and I’m looking forward to seeing his thoughts

[JeremyG]

Do you think 19 boards to 7 was acceptable?

No, but like I said, much of the time Ayton was guarding players out on the perimeter. Again, coaching is part of it.

[Superbone]

Could Ayton have had more rebounds? Sure, maybe two or three, but much of the time Ayton was out on top guarding perimeter shots. How is he supposed to keep them off the boards?

You were there for the Amare Stoudemire years, right? So you know what effort looks like. You can't tell me with a straight face that Ayton is putting in the effort or force required to be a difference maker.

[Kryptonic]

Could Ayton have had more rebounds? Sure, maybe two or three, but much of the time Ayton was out on top guarding perimeter shots. How is he supposed to keep them off the boards?

You were there for the Amare Stoudemire years, right? So you know what effort looks like. You can't tell me with a straight face that Ayton is putting in the effort or force required to be a difference maker.

He can and he will lol

[Superbone]

I genuinely can't tell if everyone just likes to find something to hate Ayton for, or if nobody understands what what was happening on that play or the reasons why it happened. Regardless, it was one freaking play. The social media age is ridiculous.

It’s just a bad look…I don’t remember what happened right before, but even if he forced the missed shot, he needs to try and get back in the play. He obviously thought Jokic wouldn’t miss the putback from point blank and that’s why he just stood there, but this is the playoffs. Can’t afford to just stand there. He’s just a low energy guy. He doesn’t waste any unless absolutely necessary.

And it’s not just 1 play…stuff like this happens all the time. Do you think 19 boards to 7 was acceptable? Yes his teammates need to help and are to blame too, but can you tell me exactly what we’re paying Ayton the max for? He’s not a top tier offensive player(can’t dribble), he’s not a great defensive player, he’s not controlling the glass. What is he doing that makes him worth the max? He’s billed as a guy who’s not elite at anything but great at everything and it’s been trending more towards just ok/good at everything. He’s just underwhelming. If he was making 15 million a year and we could spend the other 15 on 1-2 more rotation players, I’d be just fine with him, but at his salary and with our depth, we absolutely need him to dominate in certain areas(rebounding, rim protection)

This is all obvious stuff to all but two. One is a board member. The other is the man himself.

[TOO]

Ayton being blasted all over social media today, just brings me joy.

Not me. I'm severely disappointed.

But why?

[TOO]

Do you think 19 boards to 7 was acceptable?

No, but like I said, much of the time Ayton was guarding players out on the perimeter. Again, coaching is part of it.

Coaching is a part of it, having him guard wings isn't great, but also you can't play him in a drop because he doesn't intimidate anyone in the paint, so what is your solution?

[Kryptonic]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 167308007/

JeremyG, here’s an article on azcentral for you….

And here's one for the rest of you: https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 167283007/

The difference is…. We all bitch about Monty too and aren’t telling us something we don’t know. Unlike YOU, who is defending ayton at every chance. It’s laughable. I also find it hilarious your account was created 3 days before we drafted ayton, which we pretty much already knew at that point he was coming here. You’re not an objective suns fan, you’re an ayton apologist. We all criticize this team to no end because we want to win a ring and have seen what success looks like vs what’s being displayed lately. The faults aren’t just Ayton, but he’s a huge part of it…. Monty’s rotations and love of shamet are a huge problem too. Our bench is a problem. We will never get a ring being complacent and calling ALL of it out is what we have always done on this board (like I’ve said… been reading this and was a member on the old forum since the cubby days). We love this team, and being hyper critical is what gets you a ring, not making excuses.

[Shabazz]

I genuinely can't tell if everyone just likes to find something to hate Ayton for, or if nobody understands what what was happening on that play or the reasons why it happened. Regardless, it was one freaking play. The social media age is ridiculous.

It’s just a bad look…I don’t remember what happened right before, but even if he forced the missed shot, he needs to try and get back in the play. He obviously thought Jokic wouldn’t miss the putback from point blank and that’s why he just stood there, but this is the playoffs. Can’t afford to just stand there. He’s just a low energy guy. He doesn’t waste any unless absolutely necessary.

And it’s not just 1 play…stuff like this happens all the time. Do you think 19 boards to 7 was acceptable? Yes his teammates need to help and are to blame too, but can you tell me exactly what we’re paying Ayton the max for? He’s not a top tier offensive player(can’t dribble), he’s not a great defensive player, he’s not controlling the glass. What is he doing that makes him worth the max? He’s billed as a guy who’s not elite at anything but great at everything and it’s been trending more towards just ok/good at everything. He’s just underwhelming. If he was making 15 million a year and we could spend the other 15 on 1-2 more rotation players, I’d be just fine with him, but at his salary and with our depth, we absolutely need him to dominate in certain areas(rebounding, rim protection)

This is all obvious stuff to all but two. One is a board member. The other is the man himself.

I think 2021 Ayton would be embarrassed by 2023 Ayton’s performance

[Democritus]

Man, even talking and arguing about Ayton is useless and waste of our precious time...Leave him and his apologist alone..he wont be here in 3 months anyway. Such a waste of body...simply dissapointing.

[JeremyG]

Could Ayton have had more rebounds? Sure, maybe two or three, but much of the time Ayton was out on top guarding perimeter shots. How is he supposed to keep them off the boards?

You were there for the Amare Stoudemire years, right? So you know what effort looks like. You can't tell me with a straight face that Ayton is putting in the effort or force required to be a difference maker.

Amare was our #1 scorer--he was not playing behind KD and Booker.

Amare was not one of my favorite players. I didn't like his lack of defense and rebounding. Amare never averaged double digits in rebounds a single time in his career, while Ayton has done it every season in his career.

[JeremyG]

Do you think 19 boards to 7 was acceptable?

No, but like I said, much of the time Ayton was guarding players out on the perimeter. Again, coaching is part of it.

Coaching is a part of it, having him guard wings isn't great, but also you can't play him in a drop because he doesn't intimidate anyone in the paint, so what is your solution?

There are other defensive schemes the coaching staff could implement that can keep him on Jokic (very important for defending Jokic) and keep him near the rim more instead of the perimeter (very important for rebounding).

[JeremyG]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 167308007/

JeremyG, here’s an article on azcentral for you….

And here's one for the rest of you: https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 167283007/

The difference is…. We all bitch about Monty too and aren’t telling us something we don’t know. Unlike YOU, who is defending ayton at every chance. It’s laughable. I also find it hilarious your account was created 3 days before we drafted ayton, which we pretty much already knew at that point he was coming here. You’re not an objective suns fan, you’re an ayton apologist. We all criticize this team to no end because we want to win a ring and have seen what success looks like vs what’s being displayed lately. The faults aren’t just Ayton, but he’s a huge part of it…. Monty’s rotations and love of shamet are a huge problem too. Our bench is a problem. We will never get a ring being complacent and calling ALL of it out is what we have always done on this board (like I’ve said… been reading this and was a member on the old forum since the cubby days). We love this team, and being hyper critical is what gets you a ring, not making excuses.

Lol. A 2023 join date talking about my join date as proof I'm not a Suns fan? I've been around since 1999 on the old AZCentral boards...when Cubby was posting his gruesome photos with no moderation.

[Nodack]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 167308007/

JeremyG, here’s an article on azcentral for you….

And here's one for the rest of you: https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 167283007/

The difference is…. We all bitch about Monty too and aren’t telling us something we don’t know. Unlike YOU, who is defending ayton at every chance. It’s laughable. I also find it hilarious your account was created 3 days before we drafted ayton, which we pretty much already knew at that point he was coming here. You’re not an objective suns fan, you’re an ayton apologist. We all criticize this team to no end because we want to win a ring and have seen what success looks like vs what’s being displayed lately. The faults aren’t just Ayton, but he’s a huge part of it…. Monty’s rotations and love of shamet are a huge problem too. Our bench is a problem. We will never get a ring being complacent and calling ALL of it out is what we have always done on this board (like I’ve said… been reading this and was a member on the old forum since the cubby days). We love this team, and being hyper critical is what gets you a ring, not making excuses.

All that is true except none of what we say here has any effect on how the Suns are going to play or change any management decisions. We are here because we are Suns fans and like talking about the Suns with other Suns fans. None of what we say really matters far as the Suns are concerned. For the most part I think we all are pulling for everyone on the team and management. Many of us have been Suns fans here for many decades. I sometimes get called a homer for being too pro Suns and not critical enough. I think I am plenty critical of the Suns. I just don’t like dwelling on things I have no control over. Calling out players and coaches for not meeting my expectations I will do, not that they care. Talking about trading players or firing coaches is wasted time for me but, some here love it. We are are all different. It’s supposed to be entertainment. It’s ok to be entertained sometimes.

Back to Suns talk. I could go over all my criticisms of the Suns but, I think it’s been covered already. I am almost glad the Suns got their asses handed to them instead of a close loss. It will be that much harder for the Nuggets to get up for the next game and serve as motivation for the Suns hopefully. The Suns will be a little more acclimated to the altitude. The Nuggets were pumped for the game and hitting all their shots. The Suns didn’t bring their A game. The Suns lost the first game to the Clippers.

[Nodack]

I’m wonder what adjustments the Suns will make in game 2. Ayton ending up guarding wings at the three point line and they were bombing away. That was talked about a lot here already. I am pretty sure that was in the Nuggets game plan. Get Ayton switched onto a wing and pull him back to the 3 pt line. If they miss, Ayton isn’t close enough to get the rebound. If they make it and they did, Ayton had been neutered. Does he need to get a little closer to the shooters when they do that, forcing them to drive around him and would they have a game plan for help?